.... and PHAT, too!

Another platinum pig from "who-knows-where" intercepted out of Old Harbor.


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Holllee Chit don't think I've ever seen a fish that fat and that girl could kick all our arses.

Head to body size ratio says that fish knew how to eat. Sweet!

Imagine the belly filets on that!

Dang,.... I think that fish got some triploid genes in it. Has the proportion of a football.

I bet it was a whitey.

Will find out from the AK board.

Caught recently or older pic?

It's a beauty!

Shaped like a whitey, that's for sure...holy cow, what a beast.

Fish on...

Todd

OH Man!

Photo shopped !! Am I the only one that sees this? Just saying.

King

That is one portly looking slab of perfection Francis! Awesome!

Yes.... cropped and re-sized.

Nothing more... nothing less.

Legit pic.

The source posts no bull.

+1

Then Sir,

I owe you an apology !!!

Any idea what the dims were? Weight? I fish that area a bit later and a bit further south in September.

King

Just got off the phone with the lodge....

Personally spoke to the gal in red...

WHITE king all the way.

was it caught on tackle or netted

Rod and reel.... 60#

Same dude caught a 45# slab 3 days earlier.

AKkings... what's your best guess as to where those predominantly white Old Harbor pigs originate?

Just got off the phone with John Beath.... he is adament they are NOT Rivers Inlet fish.

I know they are NOT Kenai fish.... shape is all wrong, and the Kenai has no white kings.

They sure don't look like Skeena fish, either... again wrong shape.

King - it's very obvious you haven't been here long if you'd even suggest that eyefish would post a photoshoped picture. You got a lot to learn, grasshopper.
So, I handled a few whites when working for Dahl's in B'ham but I've never knowingly eaten one. Is the flavor much different?

Sorry for the greenhorn question here. Where is Old Harbor? Kodiak Island?

That is a nice fish.

Headed to the Fras

Yea you can tell thats the real deal you can see how the fin is bent on her leg and its a ligit pic. But id say the most impressive thing being overlooked is the fact that she can lift that toad. Iv had the chance to eat white king and normal alaskan king in the same dinner and you can totaly tell the difference in taste. Not beter not worst but different. I enjoyed it alot.

Just going off the timing of Kodiakcombo's big fish which seem to be about a month to 6 weeks ahead of our fish and the overall proportions which seems very similar to alot of the trophy fish I see every year, I have to wonder if they might be Skeena fish. I think alot of our bigger fish are headed there and prime time for them is usually around 6/20 to the end of July, timing would be about right for them to be passing by Kodiak around now. We also catch a fair amount of white kings probably in the neighborhood of 10-15% and they are usually bigger fish.

I remember you saying last year you didn't think they were Kenai fish and I don't know much about the River's Inlet fish which would have been my second guess but I don't doubt John Beath if he says there not R.I. fish. Could be Fraser or Columbia fish but definitely wouldn't be my 1st guess.

After seeing the May kings Kodiakcombo has posted this year and years past I would definitely like to know more about them as well, impressive fish!

Maybe Robbo will read this and add his 2 pennies worth.

they taste friggin great! love them chuck, great smokers to! was wondering if fraser river fish cought some the same shape there?

vince

That's obviously a Skokomish fish............

Samish

wow....just wow

Have caught alot of white springs out of Ucluelet that look similar to this beast(although never that big!) the locals at the docks were positive that the whites were Fraser fish. First time we cut one we were so dissapointed and then a local talked us into trying it that night, have to say it was delicous!

Lots of Harrison fish are whites. They get some up to 70 lbs.

Used to catch a lot of Fraser whites in the strait all about 30# and the same small head with football body.

Things a pig.Cool pic.Good luck,
SZ

Wow awsome pics.

So......

The real question for Doc is if he were up there fishing for these kings and it was Doc that caught/landed this fish, would be have kept it......

Well, Doc?

To bonk, or not to bonk if and when you are fishing up there?

It's interesting that deep bodied Chinook, like the one in the pic, seemed to be caught almost exculsively around Kodiak. That suggests this strain of Chinook are feeding in and around the Island. But one would think they could also be caught somewhere near their spawning tribs. But I don't know of any river that gets deep bodied Chinook on a regular basis. The Columbia Rv does get a deep bodied Chinook (tule), but not like that, and certainly not that size. So I'm ruling out Columbia.

The origin of these fish appears to be unknown. One part of me says that more information on this fish would increase it's chances for long term survival. But another part of me hopes that it's origin remains a mystery.

Here's the twin beast from last year from the same lodge at about the same time of year (I posted it 5-12-10)



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Look familiar?

And this famous one from a different lodge a few years back....

One more for the gravel if it were up to me.

I wouldn't kill a fish like that.

Near Rivers Inlet there is a run of large white kings. Similar in shape to the ones that you are posting.

Fraser system sounds like the most likely candidate....

Fall fishing for large Harrison river Kings is good from mid September to mid October. These fish head up the Fraser river before entering the Harrison near Chilliwack, BC and are very good biters and wicked fighters. These are the 'White' Kings and although their reputation for eating is not the same as a red King, their scrapping ability is superior. Harrison river Chinooks are larger and average 30 lbs with many fish over 50 and 60 lbs taken!

http://www.silversidesfishing.ca/page/chinook-salmon.html

I have seen carcasses of huge chinook on the Harrison. Years ago Snake and I caught a boot that was 60 plus, but the shape was looong and skinny. Certainly not like the ones in these photos. And as far as them being eager biters, I have not seen that. I even brought Nick Amato there as I was having no luck hooking them he had the same result. Nada.

OK.... a revelation, a VISION of sorts.... came to me today.

No doubt these are Fraser stock (confirmed by biologist), and the Harrison is the probably the most likely trib of origin for the Old Harbor White Hawgs.

Got a new item to add to the Bucket List.... C&R an Old Harbor Hawg from the beach.

Slow day at work, Doc?

Not at all... just received an unexpected phone call during lunch hour that's got me pretty jazzed up.

Got a new piscatorial "career goal" that's more do-able than the one I previously set my sights on.

BTW if anyone is interested, this one weighed 78#.

There is a very easy spot to catch one of those Harrison kings from shore...very easy.

Fish on...

Todd

Catching one from the shore would be great but I am still stuck on the kayaking plan.



An alaskan kayak/fishing trip is definitely in the works.

I know of a couple spots on Noyes Is. that you could cast from shore and catch hawgs like those, I prefer the comfort of a 25 foot boat myself.

3 more weeks until the games begin! :-)

OK... I guess I technically mis-spoke when I said C&R from the beach.

What I meant was more like what I already like to do on the Kenai.

Hook that slab from the boat.... beach the boat... finish the battle from shore... beach the fish.... get the pics.... then watch slack-jawed as that rotund powerhouse retreats to the briny deep.

If a guy's gonna dream, may as well dream BIG.

Will suck to be a very large salmon that falls prey to the Polar Bear in 13 days........

I know Robbo promised Stam a 70+er, but I'd start with a 50+er and work up from there!

That one in the photo will do quite nicely!

Whack 'em and stack 'em, baby!

Robbo pulls that off in 13 days I will hand deliver him a bottle of Crown, hell doesn't even have to be 70, I'll do it if he gets Stam a 50+, Its to bad you guys can't make that trip in July!
Good luck, hope I have to deliver a bottle to Rob.

Good thing, as I think ManTown will be low on Pendleton by then!

A gallon of the grog went up with him compliments of Bucket and myself!

PS for Vedder: If there's any left when you get up there, we didn't try hard enough!

Say it ain't so!

Stam going all English Pete on us? Scandalous!

C'mon Steve, what makes a giant king like that any more bonkable than a 30# wild OP steelhead?

Headed off to get a peek at one of these white pigs up close and personal... and obtain a DNA sample while I'm at it.

Pics later tonight, hopefully.

OH MY!!!!!!!!

Never in my life have I EVER seen a king this DEEP.

All I could think upon laying eyes on this magnificent beast was itty bitty rainbow trout head mounted onto the body of a monster bass.

Scored some good pics, scale samples, an axillary process for DNA analysis, and the biggest king collars I've personally laid hands on since 1999. Salivating just thinking about it.

Will get some pics up after the winner is announced on Amercian Idol.

Can you say GIRTH?

First shot is of the whole fish.... packed in ice into an 80# fishbox.... so big the tail had to be cut and folded over. The second pic shows off the tremendous girth of this platinum pig.

Honest to God, no Photoshop beyond crop/resize...

Heads or tails?

Just a couple more close-ups.

Here are some close-ups of the beast's scales.... tipped with pearlescent rainbow hues. Second pic shows three missing back scales, revealing the electric green background they are set in. Third pic really shows the green back underlying the rainbow scales.

White collar crime = letting a HUGE prime piece of meat go to waste. I cringe to see the vast majority of these carelessly dumped with the carcass.

Not for this podunk country doc! Collar's my favorite piece of the entire fish!

Anyone who has fished on my boat and hung around the house afterward will recognize the familiar large blue plastic tray that I routinely stack with fresh fillets. This single MASSIVE collar manages to touch three sides of the tray at once! And check out all the fat marbled into the meat in the close-up. Can you say toro? No shortage of omega-3's here, thank you.

Not sure I am at liberty to say, but one might en-VISION that possibility.

The stumpy kings taken outta Old Harbor remind me of the freakish rainbows those twin brothers from Canada claimed back-to-back world records with.





Quick, somebody call Jenny Craig!

OK... one more and I'm done.

Some fish just don't need any long armin'.... except when it takes a fully extended reach just to get around its belly! Crikey boys, check this one out!

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We've had a lot of discussion on this board about the LONG odds of chinook surviving the killing fields of northern intercept fisheries for 3, 4, 5, even 6 years. Old Harbor is just one of those places where it's real easy to see that they're exploiting kings that obviously do not spawn in Kodiak. And to be absolutely clear, it's certainly not unique in that regard. Hundreds of small coastal fisheries are intercepting salmon originating from basins far removed from the point of capture.

I tried to interject those thoughts on the AK board last year. Click on the thread below to see how well these ideas were received....

http://forums.outdoorsdirectory.com/showthread.php/80869-early-early-EARLY-morning-bite!

Couple more threads about what our neighbors to the north think about this issue....

http://forums.outdoorsdirectory.com/showthread.php/79720-Why-not-leave-Kings-alone-in-the-salt

http://forums.outdoorsdirectory.com/showthread.php/83045-Low-holing-in-grand-Alaska-style

OK... I have the answer to the mystery question....

"Whose giant white kings are getting low-holed in Kodiak?"

I finally sent the DNA off for analysis on Monday (yeah, like 2 days ago) and I already have the answer! Friends in low places I guess?

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Here's the response....

You were in luck – we were running some in-season samples today so I got the genotype! I assigned it to the GAPs Chinook baseline and it had a high likelihood of assignment (99.9%) to Lower Kalum River on the Skeena, so it looks like Coastal Canada genetically.

My original thought about what river consistently produces 60, 70, 80-pound caliber chinook was one of three possible places. Kenai, Skeena, or Rivers Inlet. Fraser was thrown into the mix for its propensity to produce a lot of white kings. And we even had a bio in AK comment that he thought these were Fraser origin. But there's no real evidence to support the ability to produce GIANT white kings. Kenai was thrown out because it produces ZERO white kings and even its giant fish are NOT built like that. Rivers Inlet (Wannock River) was thrown out because John Beath (outdoor writer and former Rivers Inlet lodge operator) said their fish don't look like that.

So there you have it... we've come full circle... iron-clad proof it's a Skeena fish!

WOW.... mystery solved.

Hmmm, who would a thunk it . They should be showing up here any day now

Just think of all those Yukon Kings who visit Russia and never return.

Remember to save a few for the gravel.

(Read sig line below)

The Kitsumkalum (Kalum) River grows some mighty special chinook.... a BIG race of giant kings comparable to the Kenai's.

Adults (anything over 65 cm... roughly 25.5 inches) in the early component of the run are protected thru June 30. Been that way for at least 10 years. This is very similar to the Kenai River ER slot limit only MUCH more restrictive.... basically only jacks may be retained.

They have a 37-day season on adults.... one per day.... from July 1 thru Aug 6. The fish get a free pass from Aug 7 forward.

http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/rec/fresh-douce/region6-eng.htm
(scroll about halfway down to find Kitsumkalum)

I can't imagine why I didn't think of the Kalum. I have fished it several times, and while I never did hook one of those mosters I saw a bank angler get his azz handed to him by a monster big king.

There is a stretch of the Skeena, near Terrace, that is open only to bank angling. It is a truly epic fishery. Many are hooked - few are landed. i have always thought it is perhaps the coolest salmon fishery I have even seen.

Some interesting fellows on that board. You talked about lack of Hatchery fish returning in numbers and the guy kept calling out habitat. Life outside the box is scary for some.

there is a tackle store in Terrace that has a picture of a fish that was caught for hatchery brood stock that weighed in at 107lbs. Some lunkers up there for sure

rln...

So the Kalum is planted with chinook?

Got a phone number for the hatchery? Got questions about life history. Or maybe you know.

Are the Lower Kalum fish a stream-type (one year or more fresh before smolting) or ocean-type chinook (sub-yearling smolts)?

http://bcadventure.com/adventure/angling/river/skeena.phtml

Fishery employees have found carcasses of Chinook spawned out along the banks of the Skeena system that weighed more than 107-pounds!

Ninety per cent of the Chinook in the Skeena River are wild fish. Some hatchery Chinook do exist, but most are wild fish.

I have a few ignorant questions, but must say that is one of the most beautiful kings I have seen in a while.

Is a white king based entirely on genetics or does diet have anything to do with it?

I seem to have caught a few clipped fish (hatchery) that seemed white. Was I mistaken?

For the record, here's the official explanation for red vs white kings:

The ability of a salmon to store carotene in the fat cells is controlled genetically. So a sockeye salmon (red) stores carotene in its fat cells and a chum salmon metabolize it into a colorless Vitamin A. For a chinook salmon flesh color is determined by two genes in a duplicate recessive gene interaction. Here is a list that will help explain this. It comes from an ADF&G publication. The genotype is the combination of capital and small case letters and the flesh color is defined.

AA,BB -red flesh color,
AABb - red,
AA,bb - white,
Aa,BB - red,
Aa,Bb - red,
Aa,bb - white,
aa,BB - white,
aa,Bb - white,
aa,bb - white.

You can see from this that if a dominant gene (A and B) are both present then the flesh color is red.

The genes for white kings are rare in Alaska. A higher percentage is found in the Pacific Northwest.

How red a fish is or just a pink color depends on the amount of pigment in their diet. However, a white king cannot become a red king no matter the diet because the genes controlling the process are not available.

I can't help but think this whole pigment storage defect must somehow be related to the critter's fat metabolism. These kings are extremely oily, esp for a fall chinook. As for that fat, stumpy physique.... a picture paints a 1000 words.

I have caught a few kings that have kind of marbled red white meat. It would be interesting to know what gene combination creates that coloring.

Marbled = genetic mosaic or chimera.

So if an Aa bb spawned with an aa Bb, what portion of the offspring would have red meat?

25% red.... 75% white.

One of those white parents will produce 50% Ab and 50% ab gametes. The other white parent will produce 50% aB and 50% ab gametes. The likelihood of red meat from this pairing ( genotype Aa Bb) is 50% x 50% = 25%.

Very nice. We must have a doctor on our hands, mr. mendel.

chi·me·ra also chi·mae·ra (k-mîr, k-)
n.
1.
a. An organism, organ, or part consisting of two or more tissues of different genetic composition, produced as a result of organ transplant, grafting, or genetic engineering.

Must be a mad doctor out there doing weird science on some of the salmon I catch.

44 and 42 lbs. white kings hit the scales here today, getting to be about that time that the big boys show up! :-)

Saw another fish with similar sumo wrestler build in an SSJ ad for Queen Charlotte Lodge.... fatty for sure. Almost certainly another Skeena fish, eh?

Spoke to the lead chinook biologist for Northern BC today. He made a deal with the QCL to start sampling every king over 40 and he would run the DNA. Turns out over 70% of those giant fish come from two places.... Kalum and Wannock, most of them from Kalum.

Went to the PSC website to research exploitation on the Kalum fish.

Total exploitation in the database is about 39% and escapement sits at about 61% averaged over the past 10 years. In contrast, WA coast indicator stock (Queets) is just the reverse.... half again as much exploitation at 60% with escapement at about 40%.

About 1/2 of the harvested Kalum fish are taken in SE-AK (49 %) the other half is taken in BC (51 %). The cumulative comm/rec split is also pretty close to 50:50.... 51.5 % comm versus 48.5 % rec.

What I found interesting is that no interceptons north/west of SE-AK were accounted for. NONE! It's obvious these fish are low holed in the Bering Sea, Kodiak. and the Gulf of AK.... but there's apparently no accounting for that in the PSC documents.

I have posed the question "WHY" to the chinook bio from BC. Sure seems like a HUGE oversight in the database.

white kings-best salmon I've ever had. Used to get them from a commercial troller when I spent a winter in Wrangell. Cooked 'em on a George Foreman Grill with a litle bit of fish rub. Tres Manifique!

gcg

My relatives were commercial fisherman (trollers) many years ago. They use to fish the Whites inside the bar at Westport. I remember them saying they would get less per pound for them. They would also fish for fun on the Chehalis (plunk) and they would catch some huge kings. I can't tell you if they were Whites or not (no pics).