In the "Weave your Bacon" thread, an argument is starting to take shape regarding a statment I made about the pro-fat, low-carb diets vs. the standard calories-in/calories out diets.

I only know what I like and what works for me. The internet is full of this argument already but I would like to hear some of the members of this board's philosophy on this stuff.

What do you all do to stay healthy? How do you like it?

As for me I typically follow Primal/Paleo type of diet. It is simple enough. Basically, no processed foods or legumes. So my food pyramid is like this:
Protein/fat and Vegetables > Fruit > Simple Dairy/Nuts. There is no bread or pasta. It is easy enough to do if you have the ingredients around. My weakness is a pretty busy social schedule which means lots of dining out, drinking beer, staying up late and eating foods off of my list. I think if I could get to where only 20% of my meals were better I could lose 10 lbs easy. When I am eating on this plan succesfully I have a lot of energy, and feel really good (mood, attitude, etc).

I do Crossfit routines 3-4x per week. I love this program it is easy to follow and is skill-based. It is more like a sport because there are so many different elements to master. I feel like I am in generally good shape. I can run far, do lots of push ups and pull ups, lift heavy stuff and I almost never get sore from any physical activities. Hiking, waterskiiing, basketball, yardwork, or whatever my workout program has helped a lot for that kind of thing.

The latest trend in nutrition is diet obessive compulsiveness to a point where your food becomes your religion

Paleo-tards

Keto-tards

AunyM's case a fat-tard

the list goes on.

Moobs are the result of being over weight and/or obese, at low body fats they go away. Same old cliche of blaming a fatness problem on something totally un-related.

Sometimes just the sound of the refrigerator door opening can give a guy a ravenous appetite.

I'm not the one worried about insulin spikes dear.

Ya, that's the latest trend. If latest means anytime after about 1965.

So, HOOKUP are you telling us that you use calories in/calories out as your dietary guideline? I understand that one as it utilizes the first law of thermodynamics. I don't see how it relates to health though. It relates to weight not body composition or functionality of bodily systems. The ci/co theory means a big mac of 790 calories is the equivalent of a 790 calorie big and colorful salad.

There are plenty of people who do great with that, but I struggle with it. Once I became a "Paleo-tard", things became a lot clearer. My wife says "What do you want for dinner?" I answer "Meat and vegetables". And that is all there is to it, it is easy. I never look at a label or count anything. If the food looks like it did when it died, then it is okay.

Lastly, if it doesn't affect you wouldn't you rather see folks obsessing over their health, instead of just about anything else?

I don't think this should get into who can link the most studies, because this thread is meant to be about what works for us and why we think it does.

Paleo is another calorie restrictive diet by default, take out easy to over eat calorie dense foods throw in a mythical story about your ancestors tweak the diet for convience by adding dairy and you have a multi million dollar diet machine.

We dont have to go back 500-10,000 years to find the hunter gather, these people still walk this planet and their body compositon is dictated more be geographics than thier own individual habits. One of the major mistakes the paleo cultists make is the assumption that there was ONE paleo diet. Nothing could be further from the truth and it was very much related to food availability both seasonally and locationally. Which is why an Alaskan inuit and an African tribesman would have eaten very very different things.

And lastly for the Paleotard clan your diet isnt really complete without Sisson's line of supplements and protien powder, because everything else just isnt Paleo!

I could go on and on about Paleo but the front end BS of this diet stops me from going any further on a fishing forum. I would suggest moderation and rationality with a strong dose of science (sorry Paleo)

Well I'm a distance guy so consuming calories is part of my gig. I'm building my base mileage for the summer months which means around 60 miles a week. The two guys I'm running just finished their college running careers so I asked them for some fine tuning on my diet. They simply said get your calories in, period.

While I try to be balanced in terms of proteins, fats, and carbs it really boils down to putting enough in the tank. The problem I see with people trying to lose weight is focusing too much on the food aspect and not putting the work in.

Rocket Red is right though in that I always prefer to fuel up with food that is real.

That sure ain't "People of Walmart"!
Gives me a hankering for a small ham and a slice of pie.

I like a nice piece of cake, dammit............to hell with the blood glucose spike!!

Yeah...............I'm pretty dialed when it comes to that.

My last a1c hemoglobin was 5.7

The pros in weight management generally use some version of a reduced carb diet; in my work that's what I do. I think that in 2011, if you have a weight problem, then the default diet should be some variation of a reduced carb. Same goes for diabetes.

if you don't have a weight problem, or don't have metabolic syndrome, then you can eat whatever you like.

If you are young and athletic then a higher carb diet can be good since your muscle uses the glucose rather than the glucose being stored as fat.

Loren Cordain is the godfather of the Paleo diet, and his website is interesting.
Cross fit is good stuff!

Here are a few of the more interesting sites on low carb life.

http://thepaleodiet.com/
Cordain's site, if you google him you can get some of his scientific articles open access. Very good.

http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/
Dr. Mike Eades site. One of the most normal really smart guys I have ever met.
Even smarter than FP! 8^)

http://www.livinlavidalowcarb.com/
Jimmy Moore's site. good links and good vids.

PM me if you want some articles or links and I will be happy to send them along.

The biggest problem with covering carbs with insulin is that the carbs are translated directly into fat storage. I don't remember the last type 2 diabetic I met who didn't gain weight on insulin.

The most common sequence is more weight leads to more insulin resistance (higher sugars) leads to more insulin leads to more weight gain. And the beat goes on.

One of the first things to do when a DM2 person goes on a reduced carb diet (less than 50-120 gm/day) is cut the insulin by about 50% or else there are episodes of low sugar, very unpleasant and dangerous. More than having high sugars in the short term.

Yeah, and it gets worse. I do weight related medicine for a living (Bariatric Medicine).

Hope it goes well, Marsha!

I'm a type 1 diabetic......for the last 40 years.

Cutting carbs is calorie cutting for dummies...so easy even a dr. can do it.

Learning how to eat a balanced meal and hitting your daily macronutrients based on your individual goals is what smart people do.

Revised comment to not include obese or non-obese diabetics. Just average people skinny to fat...

You diabetics get your own forum, were all normal here

I must be lucky...I mainly eat meat (of all sorts), and raw vegetables...and it seems that whatever I need the most of at the time, my body craves, so that's what I eat.

Spending a lot of time outside the house doing things helps a lot, I'm sure.

When I quit smoking seven or eight years ago I gained 45 pounds in about eight months, went from 195 to 240...joined the gym and worked out, got back down to 205 in about eight weeks, and even though I ditched the gym membership I mainly bounce between about 205 and 210 all the time...which seems to suit me just fine.

I keep waiting for the other shoe to drop...for my metabolism to realize I'm too old for it to keep cranking along like it does...but I'm 41 years old now and so far it's keeping right up with me...

Fish on...

Todd

Having a conversation about body composition/diet is not the same when factors such as diabetes are left out.. I dont research diabetes because it doesnt apply to me. If time permits I may dig around but its not on my give a [censored] list.

if you have time, and netflix....check out the movie 'food matters'. No joke this movie has changed the way I eat and take vitamins. Of course exersize is a huge part of being healthy, I somehow have the metabolism of a rabbit.

After watching that movie I started eating a ton of organic fruits and veg's and saw a huge difference in energy, brain function (memory mostly) and attitude. Its amazing what happens to your body when u actually take in what your body needs. I didn't go all out like some of the freaks on there (I need meat!) But there is a ton of good info on the benefits of raw veggies, friut/ vitamins.

I urge you all to watch this movie and share it with ones you love, no joke guys and gals, don't be a victom of the 'sickness indusrty' feed yourselves good food!!

Everything I posted is legit. I have not studied the effect (if there is any) of people who are diabetic, insilin resistant, etc.

I do know that in normal people insilin is not the bad guy it gets made out to be, and insilin swings are just that with no effect on fat storage.

http://weightology.net/weightologyweekly/?page_id=319

And lastly Aunty, if you had any friends or relatives that were half way health concious you would have heard about the calories in/calories out macronutriant verbage, its the way athletes and people who train set up there diets.

Maybe the younger generation will live to be 120.....who knows? Not what the world needs, for sure, but it may be possible on a large scale. When I was younger I ate WHAT I wanted, drank WHAT I wanted, did WHAT I wanted.......with no discernable lasting effects. At about age 40, some things my mind said were no problem, my body declared otherwise ..... and it wasn't well received by me. The progress of age and years of physical abuse is catching up now, more than a couple of decades later. I'm still bull-headed and want what I want when I want it, but the price tag is higher. I have few regrets and am not yet willing to accept that my ancestor's scratched their way up through the evolutionary tree to eat bushes. And I refuse to live in a world that I'm afraid of......so......it may not be "Balls to the Wall" any more, but it's as close as I can make it. And hopefully will remain so until they pat me in the face with a shovel.

It's all soooo simple really!!!


Tips for healthy living from a true professional.



Q: Doctor, I've heard that cardiovascular exercise can prolong life. Is this true?

A: Your heart only good for so many beats, and that it... Don't waste on exercise. Everything wear out eventually.. Speeding up heart not make you live longer; it like saying you extend life of car by driving faster. Want to live longer? Take nap.

Q: Should I reduce my alcohol intake?
A: No, not at all. Wine made from fruit. Brandy is distilled wine, that mean they take water out of fruity bit so you get even more of goodness that way. Beer also made of grain. Bottom up!

Q: How can I calculate my body/fat ratio?
A: Well, if you have body and you have fat, your ratio one to one. If you have two bodies, your ratio two to one, etc.

Q: What are some of the advantages of participating in a regular exercise program?
A: Can't think of single one, sorry. My philosophy is: No pain...good!

Q: Aren't fried foods bad for you?
A: YOU NO LISTEN! Food are fried these day in vegetable oil. In fact, they permeated by it. How could getting more vegetable be bad for you?!?

Q: Will sit-ups help prevent me from getting a little soft around the middle?
A: Definitely not! When you exercise muscle, it get bigger. You should only be doing sit-up if you want bigger stomach.

Q: Is chocolate bad for me?
A: Are you crazy?!? HEL-LO-O!! Cocoa bean! Another vegetable! It best feel-good food around!

Q: Is swimming good for your figure?
A: If swimming good for your figure, explain whale to me..

Q: Is getting in shape important for my lifestyle?
A: Hey! 'Round' is shape!


Well... I hope this has cleared up any misconceptions you may have had about food and diets.

And remember:

Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways - Chardonnay in one hand - chocolate in the other - body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming "YEE-HAW, what a ride!!"

AND.....

For those of you who watch what you eat, here's the final word on nutrition and health. It's a relief to know the truth after all those conflicting nutritional studies.

1. The Japanese eat very little fat and suffer fewer heart attacks than Americans.

2. The Mexicans eat a lot of fat and suffer fewer heart attacks than Americans.

3. The Chinese drink very little red wine and suffer fewer heart attacks than Americans.

4. The Italians drink a lot of red wine and suffer fewer heart attacks than Americans.

5. The Germans drink a lot of beer and eat lots of sausages and fats and suffer fewer heart attacks than Americans.


CONCLUSION: Eat and drink what you like. Speaking English is apparently what kills you.

I like what Dave says..............

The simple fact is that healthy living is determined more by wealth and time then anything else.

Give me a ranch to grow my own beef, paultry and vegi's and I'll be a hell of a lot healthier then my alarm going off at 3:00 am and sitting in a high stress cubicle till 2:00 pm 5 days a week.

I retire in 12 years at 55 and I'll live till I'm 80.

I retire in 22 years at 65 and I'll live till I'm 66.

And it don't matter a wee bit what I eat or drink till then

Aunty, you reinforce Your excuse to over eat and blame it on anything but calories.

You need to aware yourself that your body burns a set amount of calories everyday and it is determined by a combination of body composition, metabolic rate, and energy physically expended based off your activity or lack of. Your body will never be able to escape from this reality even though your mind has. I highly suggest you find out what a calorie is before posting up more non-sense that panders to the no-self control crowd.

I try to limit sugar, I fail to limit carbs (bread is a huge weakness), get plenty of protein, and stay active.

Running, soccer, basketball, golf....yeah golf is a workout when you're as bad as I am.

I was doing P90X until a shoulder injury knocked me down.

My diet sucks but I make up for it in exercise.

I can't go more than a day or two without some sort of working out/training.

Going to sign up for a half marathon at the end of summer to keep me motivated.

Oh, and I don't know if this was already said above but meth works wonders for your spare tire.

I put in some suspension trainers in my prison garage gym yesterday. Those are great. I just made them out of motorcylce straps and some pvc.

I figure a suspended pushup is about 2x as hard as a regular one a suspended dip is about 3x as hard as a regular one.

Great stuff!!
And most people die in bed so sleep is absolutely a bad idea!

Hey Hookup,

How about you help me improve my fishing or teach me about your field of expertise and I can coach you in physiology? Sure, I'm being a wise guy but we can all learn from each other.

Dan, not sure where you are going with this but the type 1 treatment in the 1920s was total carb restriction and extreme calorie restriction, and it worked to slow (not stop) the destruction the disease caused. Once George Banting "discovered" insulin it was huge. There is a story in "The Discovery of Insulin" by Bliss about Banting's patients waiting for his return from a meeting to learn whether there would be enough insulin for them. It will absolutely rip your heart out to read it. In this era where insulin is widely available, it is different, but to read it you go back in time to the immediacy of their experience and it is very enlightening, as I am sure you understand.

In 2011, if there is a problem with diabetes, then the best information I have is that a reduced carbohydrate diet helps, doesn't fix but helps. Works best with DM2, less so with DM1 but still helps.

The biggest problem with insulin is that almost everybody who uses it gains weight over the years which makes the weight gain worse, and the insulin requirement grows.

The common path is to cut the carbs. No downside except missing cake. YMMV.

P.S. Thanks for the use of the lighter!

Eat less. Move more.

I'm waaay late getting in on this thread, buuut--

Salmon & avocado.


Recipe for win.

I'd rather die than give up a nice piece of cake from time to time.



What I really want is an islet transplant so I can eat cake whenever I have a hankering. Let me know if anyone finds any islets just hanging around.

I try to eat right - almost. I like food too much and was born with a sweet tooth. The older I get, the more my metabolism slows, and I've gradually gained weight. My 86 year old mother is diabetic, so I'm slightly concerned I might be susceptible to it and will have to leave the cookies out of my lunch. If it ever stops raining, I'll get back on my bike and see if I can't hit my fitness target this summer.

Sg

I have been working out like a madman this past month. feel better than I have in years. lost 10lbs as well. My biggest issue is beer drinking.... I know the weight would fly off if I scaled back on the old brewnansky's. what is the fun in that??

I just heard today that the Food Pyramid we grew up looking at has been replaced by the USDA's new "MyPlate"



It is much better than the pyramid, although the government is generally 20 years behind science in most cases. Still, it gives fruit and vegetables half the plate, which is a big improvement.

I was listening to NPR and they interviewed spokespeople for each industry. Because they are exactly who we should get our nutrition parameters from.

When I stopped eating bread (for the most part), I pretty much gave up beer too (not because I wanted to). I can barely drink 2 in an evening, I just get full too fast on them. I still love beer, I just can't get too much of it down without feeling off. The difference is amazing. I switched over to CR on the rocks for social events.

good idea. The diet is my next focus. I figure a change for the better plus cutting out the beer (except for social events) will help big time.

It is amazing how excercise can make you feel so much better, both physically as well as mentally.

Gonna take a really big plate to fit my big ol' T'Bone in that little space.

We stopped having major carbs with all our dinners a few years ago. Potatoes, rice, or pasta are a once in a while addition now. I'm not sure we even really need dinner at this point, so we have salad, meat, veggie. Not much dairy either, except for milk on my granola at breakfast, a half slice of cheese on my half sandwich at lunch, and fat free sour cream in some recipes that call for it. But since I cooked a roast last night, I just had to make potatoes and gravy. OK, the serious diet begins next week!

why not replace it with a joint? had to do it 2many...

I am as guilty if not more so when it comes to after work beers....

so?

fruit, vegetables, and whole unprocessed grains are some of the healthiest and least calorie dense foods out there. certainly not something that causes obesity, diabetes, or heart disease.

let's not forget that unlike sugar, whole foods have more than carbs. they have tons of vitamins, minerals, phytochemicals along with protein (33% of brocolli's calories are from protein for example) and small amounts of fat (less than 10%). not only do whole carbs contain all that good stuff they also have lots of fiber. the mayo clinic says this about fiber "dietary fiber — found mainly in fruits, vegetables, whole grains and legumes — is probably best known for its ability to prevent or relieve constipation. But fiber can provide other health benefits as well, such as lowering your risk of diabetes and heart disease."

the problem with so much of the carbophobia is based on putting all carbs together instead of separating healthy whole foods from the processed, sugary poison many people think of when they think of carbs.

I saw a TV commercial from a producer of high-fructose corn syrup that said "sugar is sugar" and we shouldn't mind the HFCS in lots of our food.

I wonder if all the lactose-intolerant people out there agree that "sugar is sugar".

Yeah, I saw those ads pimpin' HFCS and thought, "do they really think people are this stupid?"

Better ask Dave. He's the "boobies is boobies" guy. Dave, "sugar is sugar" ?

yes.........

No they are stupider. This cuntry is full of fat people blaming everything but eating to much as the problem.
The smart part is the companies that get these piggies to empty out thier wallets on books, supplements, magazines and all the other secret cures for their fatness. End result, still fat.

More proof calories in/calories out is big lie

http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/11/08/twinkie.diet.professor/index.html

Cliffs
-Professor looses 27 lbs on junk food diet of doritos, oreos and lil debbie snacks
-Blood panel greatly improved
-body fat dropped from 33.4 to 24.9 percent
-Proves there is hope for AuntyM if she can learn to count calories and estimate portion size (they have a new thing called a food scale)

Now this is purely anecdotal, and I don't claim to be an expert on anything surrounding weight issues, but just going on people I know, the crappier they eat and the less they exercise, the fatter they are. The ones who watch what they eat and exercise are the thin ones.

My one single encounter with weight gain is instructive for me, at least...I didn't exercise, and my diet went haywire when I quit smoking...and I gained over 40 pounds.

I got sick of the extra weight, started going back to the gym and getting exercise in the out of doors, and stopped eating so much, and such crappy food, and in a few months the extra weight was gone, and has not ever come back.

I'm sure all the experts on this thread can tell me a thousand reasons why all this happened, but it's pretty clear to me...eat crap and sit on your ass, and the ass you're sitting on will get bigger...eat good amounts of good food, and don't sit on your ass, and your ass will get smaller.

I don't think you need to be a doctor, or InterWebz expert, to see the fundamental truth in those things.

I'm sure some people are affected by conditions like diabetes...but some of my family members who have it didn't have it until they got fat. I'm sure some people have glandular problems, and don't process calories or fat or whatever well. I'm sure some people have lost the Fat Lotto and are just fat, no matter what they do or don't do.

The other 98% of the fat people are fat because they eat too much, they eat crap, and they don't exercise.

Fish on...

Todd

bingo, i've struggled with weight my entire life and it wasn't glandular or genetic... it was me eating a ton of convenience food (aka. poison)

you don't catch type 2 diabetes, coronary heart disease, or obesity like the cold or flu. 99.999999% of the people with these health issues have them due to food and lifestyle choices.

i'm not trying to come off as cold or uncaring about people with serious, life threatening illnesses. but not being honest about the causes doesn't help anyone. it is hard for many people to make good choices. many people are uneducated and our food system is designed to help people make bad choices. neighborhoods without grocery stores but tons of fast food make it very difficult for people living there to make good choices. not only that, but the standard american diet (processed and loaded with sugar) is full of addicting foods.

the truth is that eating healthy can be very difficult. pay attention to the commercials on the television sometime and see if any food items being advertised aren't heavily processed and/or full of sugar. go to a store and look at how easy it is to make bad decisions when it seems like they hide the healthy food because there is so little of it. children are bombarded by misleading food advertising from the time they start watching TV. it's no wonder why our country is so sick and spends so much on health care.

The best miracle weight loss product is tobacco. The pounds melt away if you use a can of dip a day.

there is no place for nutrional theory, unless your fat and are looking for excuses.

I follow the recommendations from a nutrionalist that has zero ties to the FDA but he does have a masters in sports nutrition as well as a research review he publishes monthly. His plan is basicly a carbon copy of the FDA plate, with the exception it has caloric values more defined based on goals and excercise or lack of, and he encourages regular free meals of anything I want.

On his plan my body fat has dropped from 32%+ to currently 18%, looking at 15% or lower for summer. I exercise as little as possible and have a desk job. I did join a gym with some pretty big plans of lifting weights once every 4 days. This winter when we got to St. Lucia the wife will be sleeping with one of the best looking guys on the beach.

2........92.......

Eat less. Move more. Duh.....


It has worked for millions of years.

If you feel pain, then eat more ?

Who are you going to sleep with then?

Seriously, congratulations on your body composition improvements.

So what works for Hookup is to see a 'nutritionist' who tells you to eat less, eat balanced meals, and every now and then eat what you want? I hope you don't pay too much for those services.

Good job sh!tting on everyone else's (including a doctor's) nutrition plans!

Tomorrow I will put my diet to the test when I put on my wetsuit for the first time in 9 months (damn shrinking neoprene). Beach day!

I have also learnt that having a ton of monkey sex is a great way to burn those pesky calories.

Young folks opinions about diets just doesn't carry any weight.

After reading this thread back through I have now determined it is my fork spoon and knife that makes me fat...the asians use chop sticks, they are skinny so thats what I am using from now on. Case closed, see you on the flip side.

I just finished a plate of freshly baked Peanut butter chocolate chip cookies and a ice cold glass of NON fat milk.

Tomorrow will be sugarless oatmeal raisin cookies with a cold can of coke?

Balance........it's all about balance.

People dont get fat overnight its a gradual process. Thats why calorie counting even ball parking them is so important.

I monitor my progress 6 weeks at a time and make changes off my results or lack of. Waiting 25 years to realize I gained 50 lbs is not my goal.

Feelingbetteraboutthread.jpg

Tis true. Quit the stuff for a couple weeks and gained 7lbs.

Is that the latest solution to the booze belly?

The chopstick theory only applies to haoles... slows 'em down so the can't eat as much.

Ornamentals skilled in the use of said "sticks" can stuff their traps as fast as anyone using a spoon/fork.

'tis true, and that goes for noodles too! Pho, ramen, soba, you name it......with impressive slurping noises that would make a bass, tarpon or wild boar envious. My time in Tobu Nerima taught me to appreciate it....bonus points for anyone who knows where Tobu Nerima is. Hint: near Ikebukuro.