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#695695 - 07/25/11 02:36 PM Why paid signature gatherers should be banned:
Irie River Nutrients Registered: 11/26/06 Posts: 4317 Loc: South Sound	NEWS STORY LINK Quote: State Patrol to probe I-1163 signature fraud Brad Shannon: The Politics Blog \| The Olympian • Published July 22, 2011 Backers of an initiative to improve home care and worker training say they have discovered fraud in petitions turned over to a California-based subcontractor that was paid to gather signatures for Initiative 1163.
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#695696 - 07/25/11 02:40 PM Re: Why paid signature gatherers should be banned: [Re: Irie]
SBD clown flocker Registered: 10/19/09 Posts: 3731 Loc: Water	Yup if there's a system someone will try and figure out a way to beat it. _________________________ There's a sucker born every minute
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#695706 - 07/25/11 03:20 PM Re: Why paid signature gatherers should be banned: [Re: SBD]
MartyMoose Returning Adult Registered: 06/14/11 Posts: 341 Loc: Lake Stevens, Wa	I wonder how many were the signatures of illegals? _________________________ A veteran - whether active duty, retired, or national guard or reserve - is someone who, at one point, wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America," for an amount of "up to and including my life."
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#695806 - 07/25/11 10:19 PM Re: Why paid signature gatherers should be banned: [Re: MartyMoose]
Rivrguy River Nutrients Registered: 03/03/09 Posts: 4566 Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope	Oh oh, as a pension drawing union member this sucks! The same union, SEIU, that got caught with crooked sigs last year is back. Paid / unpaid have your opinion but when the same organization does it twice it is unreal. That it is a member union of organized labor is unconscionable and they need to be shown the road. http://www.washingtonstatewire.com/home/10566-oh_no_not_again_–_another_seiu_initiative_is_tarred_by_signature_fraud.htm _________________________ Dazed and confused.............the fog is closing in
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#695841 - 07/25/11 11:29 PM Re: Why paid signature gatherers should be banned: [Re: Rivrguy]
Chuck E Three Time Spawner Registered: 09/07/05 Posts: 1832 Loc: Kitsap Peninsula	I figure if an intiative is worth putting on a ballot, then those that want that to happen should do it themselves. Maybe it's time for an intiative to ban paid signature gathering employees. Irie? _________________________ "I didn't care what she didn't 'low--I would boogie-woogie anyhow" John Lee Hooker
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#695949 - 07/26/11 01:53 PM Re: Why paid signature gatherers should be banned: [Re: Chuck E]
Salmo g. River Nutrients Registered: 03/08/99 Posts: 13615	I'm a fan of the WA State initiative process. That said, is it still a "citizen" initiative if the signature gatherers are paid? It seems to put it in the same class as buying elections with the biggest campaign budget. Sg
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#695996 - 07/26/11 04:47 PM Re: Why paid signature gatherers should be banned: [Re: ]
Salmo g. River Nutrients Registered: 03/08/99 Posts: 13615	Hank, Yes, that's the idea behind what we call a citizen's initiative. That citizens will devote their time and effort to enact law that the Legislature won't, and not substitute money by writing a check to the sponsor. That's become the primary problem with law in government, using money (whether corporate, union, etc.) to make or change law, instead of participatory citizen democracy. Sg
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#696004 - 07/26/11 05:05 PM Re: Why paid signature gatherers should be banned: [Re: Salmo g.]
Dan S. It all boils down to this - I'm right, everyone else is wrong, and anyone who disputes this is clearly a dumbfuck. Registered: 03/07/99 Posts: 16958 Loc: SE Olympia, WA	If you won't stand in the sun or rain for it, then it's a piece of sh!t law that shouldn't be on the books anyway. _________________________ She was standin' alone over by the juke box, like she'd something to sell. I said "baby, what's the goin' price?" She told me to go to hell. Bon Scott - Shot Down in Flames
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#696005 - 07/26/11 05:06 PM Re: Why paid signature gatherers should be banned: [Re: Dan S.]
Irie River Nutrients Registered: 11/26/06 Posts: 4317 Loc: South Sound	Originally Posted By: Dan S. If you won't stand in the sun or rain for it, then it's a piece of sh!t law that shouldn't be on the books anyway. DING!! Winner!
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#696151 - 07/27/11 08:59 AM Re: Why paid signature gatherers should be banned: [Re: ]
ParaLeaks WINNER Registered: 01/11/03 Posts: 10363 Loc: Olypen	OK, all those who think that one person can gather enough signatures to satisfy the required number for an initiative to get on the ballot raise your hands. Get serious.........it takes help. _________________________ Agendas kill truth. If it's a crop, plant it.
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#696159 - 07/27/11 09:39 AM Re: Why paid signature gatherers should be banned: [Re: ]
ParaLeaks WINNER Registered: 01/11/03 Posts: 10363 Loc: Olypen	Ok, I'll give you that one. My point was gathering signatures requires a lot of help. Help that is not available without pay. I do agree that the connection between the number of signatures gathered and the amount of pay needs to be broken. _________________________ Agendas kill truth. If it's a crop, plant it.
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#696162 - 07/27/11 09:53 AM Re: Why paid signature gatherers should be banned: [Re: ParaLeaks]
Rivrguy River Nutrients Registered: 03/03/09 Posts: 4566 Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope	Until we have public financed elections to get rid of legal bribery it is money / money / money. The initiative process works much different than the Grange would have thought when it came into existence BUT not the end results. Boiled down it was to bring discipline to the legislature on issues back then it was railroads screwing folks. Speaking of the devil take a look at this one on the D's challenging the 2/3 bit to raise taxes. You gotta love em and the state employee unions, they do not give up! http://www.washingtonstatewire.com/home/...r_new_taxes.htm _________________________ Dazed and confused.............the fog is closing in
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#696163 - 07/27/11 09:58 AM Re: Why paid signature gatherers should be banned: [Re: Rivrguy]
ParaLeaks WINNER Registered: 01/11/03 Posts: 10363 Loc: Olypen	Originally Posted By: Rivrguy Until we have public financed elections to get rid of legal bribery it is money / money / money. The initiative process works much different than the Grange would have thought when it came into existence BUT not the end results. Boiled down it was to bring discipline to the legislature on issues back then it was railroads screwing folks. Speaking of the devil take a look at this one on the D's challenging the 2/3 bit to raise taxes. You gotta love em and the state employee unions, they do not give up! http://www.washingtonstatewire.com/home/...r_new_taxes.htm The problem is that they have all day/every day to work on ways to get what they want. How much time is Joe Citizen willing to spend out of what should be "his life" fighting politicians? WE NEED A THOROUGH HOUSE CLEANING!! Grab a mop and vote differently..........(yeah, right...fat chance) _________________________ Agendas kill truth. If it's a crop, plant it.
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#696169 - 07/27/11 10:19 AM Re: Why paid signature gatherers should be banned: [Re: ParaLeaks]
Dan S. It all boils down to this - I'm right, everyone else is wrong, and anyone who disputes this is clearly a dumbfuck. Registered: 03/07/99 Posts: 16958 Loc: SE Olympia, WA	Originally Posted By: slabby Help that is not available without pay. Bullsh!t. Help is not available for worthless legislation without pay perhaps. If you can't find help without pay, then your proposed law is likely not needed. _________________________ She was standin' alone over by the juke box, like she'd something to sell. I said "baby, what's the goin' price?" She told me to go to hell. Bon Scott - Shot Down in Flames
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#696367 - 07/28/11 12:02 AM Re: Why paid signature gatherers should be banned: [Re: Dan S.]
ParaLeaks WINNER Registered: 01/11/03 Posts: 10363 Loc: Olypen	I have a proposed law? Cool! I hope it's a good one, because I know I can then count on you to show up to gather signatures daily without pay, lunch, gas money......and all just because you are such a swell guy! Here's to you...... _________________________ Agendas kill truth. If it's a crop, plant it.
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