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#706652 - 09/27/11 02:39 PM Re: Sage ONE [Re: stam]
FleaFlickr02 Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/28/09
Posts: 2529
There may come a day when I decide I've caught enough steelhead to start refusing to employ certain tactics, but I haven't gotten there yet, so for now, I'll keep on bobdicator fishing the water I can't swing through effectively. I've accepted my darkness.

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#706662 - 09/27/11 03:37 PM Re: Sage ONE [Re: FleaFlickr02]
stonefish Offline
King of the Beach

Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 4274
Loc: Carkeek Park
Nothing wrong with going to the dark side IMHO..... wink
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#706679 - 09/27/11 04:19 PM Re: Sage ONE [Re: ]
ColeyG Offline
Ranger Danger

Registered: 02/08/07
Posts: 3082
Loc: AK
Funny, a good friend of mine and one of the better fisherman I know makes similar arguments about swinging. Too boring, not interactive enough, takes little to no skill, etc.

Even though nymphing is "selling out" he prefers to fish that way over swinging because it keeps him constantly engaged having to read micro features in the water, mend line, mix and match casts based on the many variables, etc.

To him, swinging is boring to the point of not being worth the effort invested. Sure the tug is awesome when it happens, but throw in the fact that you are severely limiting your odds of getting to fight a fish, and the contest between swinging and nymphing, in his book anyhow, isn't much of a contest.
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EZ Thread Yarn Balls

"I don't care how you catch them, as long as you treat them well and with respect." Lani Waller in "A Steelheader's Way."

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#706705 - 09/27/11 06:06 PM Re: Sage ONE [Re: ColeyG]
AP a.k.a. Kaiser D Offline
Hippie

Registered: 01/31/02
Posts: 4509
Loc: B'ham
Coley, I thought you were talking about me until I saw the "one of the better fisherman I know". wink I totally agree though. Nymphing from a standing position is, without a doubt, more technically challanging and engaging than swinging. Getting drag free drifts through a combo of casting, angler postion, and mending isn't easy. There is also a difference between what most fishermen consider to be a drag-free drift and one that truly is. The fish certainly know. Granted, nymphing from a moving boat requires MUCH less skill (at least from the fisherman).

I'll concede that swinging is probably more "zen" but that is more due to repetition than anything else. Hell, swinging spoons is similar.

To each their own.

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#706710 - 09/27/11 06:26 PM Re: Sage ONE [Re: AP a.k.a. Kaiser D]
stonefish Offline
King of the Beach

Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 4274
Loc: Carkeek Park
One other thing to add about nymphing.
Whether trout or steelhead, lots of folks automatically think of split shots and indicators which isn't necessarily the case.
Some of the best nymph fisherman I've seen use neither. They are masters at mending to acheive the results they seek.
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#706758 - 09/27/11 10:14 PM Re: Sage ONE [Re: stonefish]
Salmo g. Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 12074
Oh this style of discussion is so much more fun than the whoop-dee-doo of high tech plastic known as the Sage ONE.

I don't think the swing v nymphing discussion is about the relative degree of skill required of either among knowledgeable anglers. It's because an angler skilled at both can consistently hook a lot more fish nymphing. Why do I hear about good nymphers choosing to swing when they get the opportunity? For me (not a skilled nympher) it's always been about choosing to catch that more difficult fish, the one that would be easily duped by a nymph or bead, but may or may not rise to a swung fly. Same reason I took up archery hunting with a recurve bow decades ago, I was motivated by the challenge of stalking deer within 30 yards or less as opposed to popping them at hundreds of yards with a high power rifle. I used to know a shotgunner who felt similarly that pheasant hunting was too easy, easy shots in easy terrain, and preferred chukar hunting for its harder shots in more difficult terrain.

Meanwhile a guy on the Skeena says the Bulkley is out for two weeks. Maybe he's trying to persuade Todd to stay home.

Sg

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#706790 - 09/28/11 12:27 AM Re: Sage ONE [Re: Salmo g.]
Todd Offline
Bumpin the 6X9's

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 23904
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
1. Your guy on the Skeena is full of crap...that, or the four guys I've heard from the last two days are full of crap...I know where I'm putting my money.

2. I'm amazed by the seemingly easily accepted concept that steelhead get much smarter when you use fly gear instead of casting gear...their "smaller than a pea" brains are the same size no matter what you are throwing at them.

Due to the amount of days I fish per year, I gear fish some days on river conditions that are ten times more challenging than the four or five "perfect days" that a hypothetical fly angler might fish on...does that make me "more pure" because it's harder for me to catch one on a worm on those days than it would be to catch one on a fly on the good condition days?

Fish on...

Todd

P.S. Blah, blah, blah.

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#706799 - 09/28/11 12:50 AM Re: Sage ONE [Re: Todd]
Driftfishnw Offline
Steelhead Hitman

Registered: 02/10/09
Posts: 2021
A hook is a hook... No matter how you fling it out there.

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#706800 - 09/28/11 12:56 AM Re: Sage ONE [Re: Driftfishnw]
The Catcherman Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 06/24/99
Posts: 1245
Loc: Ellensburg, WA
Following Todd's line of thinking, who is to say that the steelhead that will come to the surface to hit a skated fly is the difficult one to catch? Perhaps the most challenging fish are the ones stuck on the bottom that you have to go down and get? Anyone can catch a "player" who is active and aggressive. Maybe the real stellar fisher is the one who can select the proper method, gear, position, and make the impossible presentation to catch that one fish sulking on the bottom?
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#706813 - 09/28/11 01:37 AM Re: Sage ONE [Re: The Catcherman]
ColeyG Offline
Ranger Danger

Registered: 02/08/07
Posts: 3082
Loc: AK
My decision making with regard to chosen tactics basically revolves around two notions;

1. How do I want to fish today

or

2. What is the most effective way to catch fish today.

I find myself switching it up either when I am bored by either repetitive motion, or not catching fish...respectively. Maybe it is just the ADD, but if I do any one thing for long enough, regardless of how cool it was when I started, i get bored eventually. For me a big part of the reward comes from overcoming a challenge or building some degree of skill or knowledge. With spey casting at least, I do it so infrequently that each time is a lot like starting over, and I get a fair amount of reward out of just remembering how to get the line and hook out there.
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I am still not a cop.

EZ Thread Yarn Balls

"I don't care how you catch them, as long as you treat them well and with respect." Lani Waller in "A Steelheader's Way."

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#706858 - 09/28/11 10:47 AM Re: Sage ONE [Re: ColeyG]
stam Offline
Model Citizen, Zero Discipline!

Registered: 11/03/04
Posts: 10781
Loc: wherever I want to be...
The rigidity that some cling to their chosen method does not bother me in the least, I'm not a guide & nobody is paying me to put them on fish, I really don't care if they catch a fish or not....just don't put me down because I can and do. It is interesting that because some think that their chosen method is thee chosen method any other way is the easy way, I bowhunted for many years, mostly longbows and recurves, I killed more [censored] than most will with a high powered rifle.... being good at stuff is not a sin.
I fished last winter with some hardened fly-guys and gals, by the end of the trip I noticed that the worst fishermen in the group refused to even make a cast with a gear rod and a pink worm or yarn ball (no bait), while the best fishermen in the group spent a fair amount of time with gear and were intrigued by the subtle differences that made the difference between catching fish and not catching fish, without failure a good fly fisherman has acknowledged the skill it takes to master the methods of drift fishing, a less than skilled fly fisherman....not so much.

My favorite quote from that trip, on day three....in the rain, riding a 4 day skunking, reduced to "hate fishing" Bryon says of the pink worm..... "it just pisses me off that a steelhead will bite that thing" then he explained that he had such respect for and felt that steelhead were so beautiful that only an artfully crafted fly was worthy of the bite.

Bulkley is out, Skeena is out.

stam


....is out smile
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#706864 - 09/28/11 11:06 AM Re: Sage ONE [Re: stam]
Todd Offline
Bumpin the 6X9's

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 23904
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
The good news is that everything's not out...and the parts that aren't are fishing really, really well...can't wait, I'll be up to my knees in it on Friday morning wink

Fish on...

Todd

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#706918 - 09/28/11 03:57 PM Re: Sage ONE [Re: Todd]
Double Haul Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 03/07/99
Posts: 1558
Loc: Wherever I can swing for wild ...
Whatever turns you on, fishing gear through my journey made me a better fly angler for steelhead; I've enjoyed the ride all along and still like picking up my old lamiglas on occassion.

At this point, in this anglers journey, it is a narcotic for the take on the swung or skated fly and it doesn't bother me to take my hits of less fish, I enjoy pushing that lever too much for the piece of cheese. It will be a successful day if I catch one fish if I personally expect more from the river it will be passion without joy. All I ask for in your pursuit is let me fish the piece of water I am in without interference. When I am done, go ahead and fish through the water for that difficult fish that I could not move.

Remember it's not contest and there is no trophy for your skill at the end only how you enjoyed the river it's fish and folks you shared it with.

Now back to topic; is the Sage One better than the rpl? smile


Edited by Double Haul (09/28/11 07:46 PM)
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#706921 - 09/28/11 04:01 PM Re: Sage ONE [Re: Todd]
Salmo g. Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 12074
Blessed is the verisimilitude of the fishing fraternity. I'm intrigued that there are so many points of view about something so basic as trying to catch a fish.

Sg

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#706925 - 09/28/11 04:17 PM Re: Sage ONE [Re: Salmo g.]
ColeyG Offline
Ranger Danger

Registered: 02/08/07
Posts: 3082
Loc: AK
I thought we were talking about fishing rods?

Very well said Double Haul.




PS - Today's word of the day is verisimilitude.
_________________________
I am still not a cop.

EZ Thread Yarn Balls

"I don't care how you catch them, as long as you treat them well and with respect." Lani Waller in "A Steelheader's Way."

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#706927 - 09/28/11 04:28 PM Re: Sage ONE [Re: ColeyG]
Todd Offline
Bumpin the 6X9's

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 23904
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
My word of the day is "I'mgoingtoCanadain24hours"... smile

Fish on...

Todd

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#706932 - 09/28/11 04:35 PM Re: Sage ONE [Re: Todd]
ColeyG Offline
Ranger Danger

Registered: 02/08/07
Posts: 3082
Loc: AK
Can't find that one in a dictionary anywhere?

I hope you don't contract a wicked case of pseudopseudohypoparathyroidism while you guys are up there.
_________________________
I am still not a cop.

EZ Thread Yarn Balls

"I don't care how you catch them, as long as you treat them well and with respect." Lani Waller in "A Steelheader's Way."

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#706936 - 09/28/11 04:43 PM Re: Sage ONE [Re: ColeyG]
Todd Offline
Bumpin the 6X9's

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 23904
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
Me, too.

I think.

Fuckifino.

See you when you get there, and I'll have your book to return to you.

Fish on...

Todd

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#706977 - 09/28/11 08:11 PM Re: Sage ONE [Re: Todd]
Salmo g. Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 12074
DH, of course the Sage ONE is better than the RPL. It's the newest, latest, and greatest. And you NEED the ONE! So far I'm hanging on to one of the two RPLs I picked up in a liquidation sale, hoping I'll grow to like it some day.

Coley, of course we're talking about fishing rods, but because this is the fins 'n feathers forum, it's fly rods good, bait rods bad. I think that's what I read in Orwell.

Looks like Todd is getting excited. Hope he's taking his blood pressure medication. Have a great trip, and be sure Riley takes a bunch of good pictures again.

Sg

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#706983 - 09/28/11 08:23 PM Re: Sage ONE [Re: Salmo g.]
paker Offline
The JackHammer

Registered: 02/09/00
Posts: 12948
Loc: Margaritaville
If anyone needs to borrow one of the not-the-latest-and-greatest root beer colored Sage Spey rods that's proven to catch big fish, before they head up, feel free to stop at my place.

I don't know what it is, other than it's a Sage. It caught The One, if that helps.
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