So...FoxNews is having a heart attack today.

Some shitferbrains Alvarez has lied and said he won the Medal of Honor...an altogether bad thing to do, we can all agree.

He was found guilty under the Stolen Valor Act, which outlaws lying in public about something like this.

A panel of the 9th Circuit found that his speech, while reprehensible, is protected by the First Amendment.

Like I said, FoxNews is going apeshit over this today...the irony being, of course, that FoxNews itself argued successfully in front of the Supreme Court that they have a First Amendment right to lie about the news, if they so choose.

One man should go to jail for lying...but FoxNews wraps itself in the flag in order to spread lies...typical.

Fish on...

Todd

lol

I find this Mr. Alvarez's actions so wrong that I cannot find a suitable adjective to describe my feelings about this slug. People like Alvarez use false heroism to gain employment, apply for Benefits reserved for real Veterans, con women, Use the respect and Admiration of others to further themselves, like a pastor i read about no too long ago. Most of these fake heroes never even served this country. There used to be a group of these sorry SOB's that would hang out in front of the Vietnam Memorial in D.C. These asshats wore Jungle fatigues, Boonie Hats, Jungle Boots, and a wild assortment of patches & medals, and crazy stories that could be spotted a mile off as B.S. These clowns, for whatever reason wanted the unearned respect and admiration of the public.

When I think of the people I served with while I was in the Navy that never made it back from a Deployment, a Work-Up, or a Training Mission it angers me...I think of the men and women that have fought in battle for this country and survived...these fakes anger me. What really angers me is when the fakes take the heroism and valor away from those that died trying to help a comrade in need.

If you served in whatever capacity, be proud of what you did...you were needed in whatever capacity you served in. If you didn't serve, live with it, you made that choice. Don't dilute the heroism of the people that earned it.
Most of the men(and women if there are any alive) that wear the Blue Ribbon with Stars, will tell you they wear it for the ones that didn't come home, that for every MOH awarded, there are many more that weren't because nobody left alive witnessed the action.

I say shame on the 9th Circuit, in this case I believe they are wrong.

In my opinion both lies are wrong Todd, a news outlet should be held to a high standard and remain objective in the reporting of the news, this applies to MSNBC and Fox. Fortunately, I dropped cable a year ago, and don't miss any of the rhetoric spilled by either side.

I also agree that Alvarez should get busted if he uses this lie to give him some undeserved benefit, and I also think that news agencies should be held to an even higher standard than people are...but since corporations are people, and FoxNews is a corporation, perhaps FoxNews should be put in jail, too.

The entire RNC should also go to jail for lying about John Kerry's and Max Cleland's service, as well, along with anyone else who lied about them for political reasons.

For the RWWJ's, don't even start to defend yourselves on that one...you were lying then, and you'd just be lying more now, and if you have a problem with Alvarez lying about his service, you should stfu and not be such massive hypocrites by lying about the service of others.

Fish on...

Todd

Has Hillary had to dodge any sniper fire lately?
What is the definition of sex? (" I did not have sex with that woman, ...Ms. Lewinski....")
Former Democratic presidential candidate John Edwards has insisted that he broke no laws when he hid his pregnant mistress while seeking the nomination in 2008........

Just sayin'. Folks in glass houses..... They all lie, folks both parties.

(I like to poke fun at both sides)

I forbid my oldest son from watching Fox News after I caught him doing is one morning. Anybody who takes that as objective broadcasting is a fool.

That's just responsible parenting right there.

This is your brain on Fox News.....

Politicians lie so much that I think many of them actually believe their lies...FauxNews doesn't even bother trying to pretend they tell the truth...I bet they sit around the newsroom and laugh their collective asses off when they see all the schit they make up out of thin air being parroted around the country by the idiots.

I know I do

Fish on...

Todd

Stolen Valor? Throw that mf in jail.

the balance, wtf are you talking about?
Do you have some examples? or are you just spewing feces?

Todd you have really morphed into a completely twisted parody of yourself. A sad cliche. Maybe you should volunteer to help some kids or something constructive.

grizz, I'm sure you have something to offer other than ad hominem attacks...you tell me why it's not ironic that a "news" agency that went to the Supreme Court and argued that the First Amendment protects its right to lie (successfully, I might add) now finds it reprehensible that the First Amendment may protect an individual's right to lie, too...

You do know that Fox is holding both of those opinions at the same time...right?

Fish on...

Todd

FOX, MSNBC, and others are only playing to the audience in order to get advertising dollars, it is the same with radio hosts.

When I moved down to Florida in 1999 Dori Monson was still leaning a little left of center...I came back in 2008 and he is almost holding hands with that Savage Nation guy....it is all about ratings, which equals money.

FOX is ultra conservative for the news programming, but the entertainment networks it provides shows some of the crudest, on-the-edge, boundary pushing shows on television. Why? because they know the audience, they know what sells, and people are too stupid to see they are being conned.

MSNBC went the other way as a means to capture the other side of the market. It is all BS, and the quicker America realizes that we're being played by FOX, MSNBC and the politicians that feed the monster the better off we will be. It is time to get back to the center, work together, and actually solve the problems this country faces, because in the long term none of the petty fighting matters.

That makes perfectly good sense Marty.
No way it's going to happen, but still a fine sentiment.

"grizz, I'm sure you have something to offer other than ad hominem attacks..."

Todd you're kidding right? Attack? I was just pointing out that you are spun up pretty tight...those darn conservatives are going to drive you to drink if you're not careful. Take a time out and push a kid around in a wheelchair for a day....or give Marsha a massage..something...

Tilting the reporting, interpreting facts in a partisan manner, focusing on one part of the story rather than the whole story...I'm not sure anyone, from any news agency, anywhere, can avoid that...whether it be a little, or a lot.

Wholesale creation of facts, however, is where FoxNews steps out from the crowd...and even has argued in front of the Supreme Court that the First Amendment protects its right to make up the news.

They argued they are entitled to do it...I'm not giving you my opinion of their "news", I'm telling you what FoxNews says about their own "reporting"...that they have the Constitutional right to lie.

Now FoxNews is complaining that a court found that an individual has the right to lie, too, thanks to the First Amendment.

That is called "hypocrisy"...and that's where the irony is.

This is not about any other news agency, this is not about one liner pithy comments about me that are not only irrelevant, but also made up...it's about Fox claiming the right to lie while condemning it in others.

Fish on...

Todd

grizz, do you even know what "ad hominem" means?

Seriously.

Fish on...

Todd

And...how about avoiding talking about me for a minute, and talk about the irony of Fox securing its right to lie while decrying the same right for someone else?

Fish on...

Todd

I don't think I've ever watched FOX news. Don't even know what channel it is on.

The point is....who cares? Turn the channel....watch football....instead of what the latest conservative did to make you go nuts...You are simply too predictable...and stale...

grizz, there's no requirement that you participate in the conversation...nor is there any requirement that you come to the conversation and make six posts in the conversation you'd rather not participate in.

Fish on...

Todd

Never attribute to conspiracy, deviancy, or cunning planning that which is simply explained by stupidity.

Yawn......

Here's and opening for the wretched, I don't get it. I mean some
individual got rapped for doing what Many media entities , not just one, do often. What's new? Money has always made some more equal than others.
Just another opportunity for Odd to hiss and moan about something
or other. And bonus, he gets to use a bit of Latin, and multisyllable
words beside his usual four letter jargon.
lil ad hominem, nichts.

Ah yes the "they all do it" argument.
The only difference is Fox argued it's their right to free speech to lie to the American public.
I think that fits the definition of propaganda, so in essence they argued for the right to preach propaganda, and call it news.
Why do they hate America so much?

FINALLY Sko... you actually contributed something that you didn't c&p... and it is completely on topic!

In fact... I can't think of anything MORE ironic than what you just posted!

Congratulations?

Todd hasn't practied law in quite some time, and probably never will again (at least for money) but he sure rallies the girls on here with his astute FOX commentary.

Freedom of speech is different from "freedom to pretend to be a hero with fake medals and benefit from the deception".

You 'moral equivalency', liberal fags have just swung and missed again. I find the liberals' obsession with FOX news to be sad but phvcking hilarious. I guess in the little, twisted, liberal vaccum that they call minds they believe they are the guardians of responsible media....like Air America.lol

4 salt said, "I can't think," righto. 'Tis true, it's obvious you cannot
think.

Heya..if you want to think that FauxNews lying to the world is somehow better than others lying to the world...knock yourself out.

You are totally welcome to be a FauxNews sycophant...they don't exist without tools like you...be that tool.

Fish on...

Todd

To me the real crime of Fox news is not that they're hypocrites, but that I (and many many others) subsidize them and their jack-assery because I pay for cable TV, and because I cannot sufficiently punish them by electing to NOT TAKE THEIR CHANNEL -- they get my money anyways.

It's a fricking SUBSIDY to the tune of half their revenues.

And because news is relatively lowly rated overall, my bet, in a world of a-la-carte programming, is that extremism is punished with people voting with their wallets. Even though you have higher fox news ratings on a day-to-day basis, I would expect that if you gave people their CHOICE of a single news network, you'd find both MSNBC and FOX with fewer paying customers than CNN.

Said another way, the average joe doesn't watch 10 hours of FOX News a day (or MSNBC for that matter). He watches the news when a big story hits, and generally he turns to a centrist news agency (Network or CNN).

So END FOX NEWS SUBSIDIES, and let's get a-la-carte cable!

"a-la-carte cable"

That's been pushed for many times but the argument against is that minority channels would cease to exist. For instance all of the foreign language channels we subsidize and don't want would go bye bye. But it's about time we allow direct competition in sharing of the lines.

I'm just guessing, but I'm thinking that Todd watches more Faux news than anyone--at least he sure knows what it says, all the time!

Todd=#1 FNC viewer in the U.S.?


Ya might want to try broadening your perspective. I have this little device that gives me news from around the world, including everthing from Fox news to the Xinha News from China, and everything in between. Even gives me news from India. And on top of that, I can even make phone calls with it! Pretty cool.

Really, how do you find so much time to watch TV? And especially FNC?

All of you are welcome to come over to the dark side and drop cable like me. HD works just as good on Broadcast TV as it does with cable. A huge plus is not only do i no longer pay to watch, but I don't have to worry about subsidizing the $hitbags that are polarizing this country into one corner or the other.

I didn't, but now I do!

Off topic, the stolen valor act denies any citizen it's First Amendment right to do what Alvarez did. That's why it's there. Violent criminals lose their Second Amendment rights. The Bill of Rights doesn't declare exceptions for them.

Laws that violate the Constitution are...unconstitutional, and get struck down by the courts.

Typically the courts weigh the interest being served by the law against the interest being served by the Constitution, and decide if it's important enough to curtail someone's Constitutional rights. In this case a 9th Circuit panel voted 2-1 that stopping lying about his service record wasn't as important as protecting the guy's right to free speech.

Fish on...

Todd

Dude, I *KNOW* the numbers. You're (like all FOX jackwagons) looking at the part of the data that YOU want to make your point. Let's try looking at ALL of the data:

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2011/12...viewing/113502/

Notice there are NO CABLE NEWS programs? That's because while Fox News has high "news" ratings, they have the same 49 people watching them all day long. Their viewership is small, but passionate/loyal.

Furthermore, if you look at the data when BIG events go down (like say election nights, or on the day a large news story breaks) you find propaganda driven sources (Fox and MSNBC) are dwarfed by more centrist/objective outlets (broadcast and CNN).

SO, to say it again, if we had true a-la-carte pricing, I believe Fox's biz model (and MSNBC) gets nuked, because the 90% of us paying to subsidize your "star trek convention" of Fox fanboys would have serious business model problems.

No, you aren't.

+4,897,613

After the Rupert Murdoch dust settles it'd be nice to see him stripped of all media ownership and the entire family sent to prison.

Hankster can have his head filled with crap on visitng days.

Gestapo recruiters would do well on this thread.

It's a good piece of data Hank, I did miss your post... I hadn't looked at the mid-term elections, only the last general.

The 2008 general election had CNN about 1/3 larger than FOX... And to my real point, mainstream (CNN/NBC/ABC/CBS) had about 45M viewers, while Fox + MSNBC were about 16M viewers.

It's interesting to see the different results because we know the 2010 mid-term election was successful for the right, so it makes sense that the "winners" watched lots of TV that night. The reverse probably was true in 2008, so it's not really clear what's a trend and what reflects the level of success/enthusiasm for each group during the electoral cycle.

Regardless, I reached my conclusion when I realized that 51M out of 60M viewers on 2008 election night voted *against* Fox news as their news outlet of preference, so presumably a lot of them would -- in an a-la-carte world -- probably choose against Fox in that context too.

After more thinking though, it's unclear how this would all break, because in an a-la-carte world, you could easily imagine paying the same $$$'s for overall less choices.

I think what I'll argue for instead is not a-la-carte, but rather "OptOut" where I can get my $0.71 a month back and lose Fox. I don't want to individually opt IN, but I do think my decision to watch ESPN in my house shouldn't REQUIRE me to support what I consider to be a political/religious advocacy network.