I recently read some interesting statistics on Kamchatka steelhead that made me wonder a lot about the potential for recovery in the PNW.

On a number of Kamtchatka rivers, poaching took 1/2 to 3/4 of the fish returning to a number of rivers. After noticing a steep decline in returns, the Russian fisheries folks shut it down and within two life cycles, the numbers bounced back to what they once were. Granted I am no scientist and I am sure any number of flaws could be pointed out with regard to the reliability of the data, but here is a pretty clear cut case of diminishing returns with only harvest to blame. Once the harvest was curtailed, the fish came back.

I have no doubt that PNW stocks can recover, the question is will we let them. As Mr. Rose said, it will likely come down to decisions on an individual basis. I am not ready to make mine.

I think you should look up that definition yourself, champ.

A dead fish in a river doesn't come anywhere near meeting the definition of wanton waste regardless of how it got there.

F'',it I was that guy I now despise for keeping a fish not ethically to my morals present, guided to it or not, (call it 5 years back) but if I don't own up too it here I can't say a damn thing to refute another from doing so, or say a damn thing here and expect respect or get it. I regret doing so and will not again. Not a big physical threat (though 65 words from a 65 inch dude is better than none) will stand up and be in an uncomfortable/awkward position if need be to educate the re-doing of my previous wrong doing if I see it occurr. I have never met Fly, or Bob on here but I respect there professional Oath, putting Honor of Craft over Profit.

Salmo-
My decision was to stop fishing for Natives in any lower 48 state.
Now that was easy as I fish the Situk in Yakutat every year and hook dozens a day and they are all natives. I hook, land quick and release with the hope they swim off and get to spawn. Do some die? maybe, but the Situk has 10,000 to 16,000 Steelhead in about 15 miles of river so I think that is a healthy native system! And it sustains Steelhead, Kings, Sockeye, Humpies and Silvers all in large numbers.
No commercials (Steelhead only)
No Indians (Steelhead only)
No catch and kill (Steelhead only)
Wonderful habitat
Clean pure water
low pressure
Situk is protected
Amazing what a river can sustain when humans don't reak havick on it!

I'm no spring chicken and fish both gear and fly. I honestly can't say I've ever seen a flyfisherman play a steelhead for an hour. Is that the case on the Situk?
If a guide can make a stance that his clients must release all wild steelhead, perhaps guides or lodges should decline booking from clients based on their choice of gear as well. That would eliminate the so called flyfishing purist that you feel are doing harm to the to the wild steelhead populations.

This is an excellent example of the stereotypical BS that continues to fracture the sport fishing community in the Pacific Northwest. Dare I even bring up the preferred recreational fishing method used by those retaining their 1/year???

Not only that but it's just plain wrong. With the amount of fly guys using large 2-handers I would bet that fish are landed faster by flyguys fishing from the gravel than most gear in a boat. Either way C&R mortality is a huge red herring. They don't die nearly all of the time. Those fish are far more resilient than you all give them credit for. Keep bonking, bonkers...... but don't claim I'm killing a bunch of fish cuz I C&R with a flyrod. There are plenty of studies that prove you wrong.

Go Red Sox,
cds

perhaps guides or lodges should decline booking from clients based on their choice of gear as well. That would eliminate the so called flyfishing purist that you feel are doing harm to the to the wild steelhead populations. [/quote]


Actually, many of the BC steelhead lodges will not allow gear anglers because the thought is that it is too effective and ... just some FYI

Ok, I'll agree that the above statements by GBL are either somewhat off base or he's just yanking some chains.

Fly caught steelhead by an educated and experienced fly angler are not any more prone to die during the C&R process than gear or bait caught steelhead. Even the fish English Pete caught would probably have survived if he had let it go.

I will argue that there is a HUGE increase of *novice* fly anglers out on the rivers now with 2-handed spey rods that probably don't have the necessary experience in landing large quantities of steelhead to really know how to properly, effectively, and quickly land a steelhead.



Really? If I thought what GLB posted as "off base", I am truly at a loss for your statement. I think you're not even in the ball park here.....





Will you please provide the links to these plentiful studies?

There are plenty of studies that do show C&R mortality is increased by such things as length/duration of how long a fish is fought, direct exposure to air of the gills, hook placement within the mouth eye, and water temperature.



I'm going to keep fishing along with everyone else here. What I *have* done is to maximize my techniques and handling skills to reduce the chances of C&R mortality on my fish. It will never be zero, but I sleep well at night knowing that I'm doing all I can for the wild steelhead as a recreational angler in our state.

Yes. Really. I'll stick to this one. From what I've seen this is the case.

Christ Parker my big winter rod could likely land a VW bus rather quickly. It's a beast. Combins with 15 lb maxima the fish come to hand really quickly.

For the record most steelhead that I've seen on gear guys hook and land are fom sled's on my local river. Maybe you fish with people who land fish more aggressively. If so good on you. In the end neither gear or fly guys kill enough fish to matter provided they don't bonk 'em.

Go Red Sox,
cds

Ok, I'll take that bet.

While I don't disagree with the part that you feel you can land a VW bus quickly with your spey rod, I, as well as most of the people I fish with would flat out SMOKE you on time alone to land the same VW with my 8' 6" 1025c, 15lb UG on my Revo in a drift boat. Heck, a 1263.5 spooled up with 30lb PowerPro and 15 pound leader damn near skips a steelhead across the surface...if one wanted too.....Just ask Batson.

If you'd said "both on the beach", I think it would be a pretty fair bet. But you did say I get to be in a boat. A moving boat can catch up to *any* fish in about two oar strokes if they truly want too. The fight would over in seconds.......

I never said I had to be in a sled...side drifting....fishing an ultra-light 1141s with 8lb main line.....which is probably what you are witnessing or were thinking of.



Agreed.

We, as anglers, need to lead by example and stop the allowable harvesting of any wild steelhead in our state. IE, a state wide ban on the harvesting of wild steelhead.

Once that happens, we organize as a group (yeah, I know, wild dream) and go to places like Komo, Kiro, and King TV and show them working tribal gillnets in action. We go on TV and do pieces that show a fisherman (I nominate Stam) catching and *releasing* a wild steelhead. The audience sees a fish swim away and Stam makes some statement about how he's not killing the wild fish, etc. Next scene turns to a gillnet on the Hoh loaded with dead wild steelhead....and more scenes of the tribes harvesting away with their gillnets hauling in dead fish after fish. Pan back to Stam, who's got a TEAR in his eye and says "I thought they said they were the Stewards of our Environment......"

The Vedder study is the one that comes to mind first regarding C&R mortalities. People can google it if they care to. It's pretty good because it was a winter steelhead study. It's easily googled. We (all C&R anglers) just really aren't killing the fish. It's a big fat red herring.

I wasn't trying to bash gear anglers. I was just pointing out that from what I've seen and experienced a 13-14 foot spey rod is overkill when it comes to landing steelhead.

As far as new fly anglers go, that may very well be the case. I honestly don't know if it is or not. I don't concern myself with other anglers much. Most of the fishermen I do have as friends or aquaintances aren't new to the sport. That may well be a factor of my age and attitude more than being a valid cross section of anglers.

Go Red Sox,
cds

Almost entirely agree Mr. Paker. Except where you say, ". . . I will argue that there is a HUGE increase of *novice* fly anglers out on the rivers now with 2-handed spey rods that probably don't have the necessary experience in landing large quantities of steelhead to really know how to properly, effectively, and quickly land a steelhead. . ."

I'd revise that to say "novice anglers" period. Gear choice has less to do with assertively playing a fish than experience. Newbies know less about what their gear can do, and they either pull too hard (and break off) or not hard enough.

My experience indicates that fish are landed faster from a boat than from the bank for the simple reason that fish landed from a boat are generally in deeper water, and they don't fear the boat. They struggle against being dragged into shallow water, which is what bank anglers must do to land them. If I wade into crotch deep water, I can get a fish close to hand a lot faster than I can on the beach. However, because the fish is still green, I can't man-handle it and would need a net to control it.

That's an otherwise accurate post for a guy who's actually fly fished once Paker. (Just razzin' ya' a bit.)

Sg

"We, as anglers, need to lead by example and stop the allowable harvesting of any wild steelhead in our state. IE, a state wide ban on the harvesting of wild steelhead."

I like so many others on here would love to see this happen. Question is, how do we tackle the "foregone opportunity" dilemma? Would the Quils follow the Hohs in this case?

"That's an otherwise accurate post for a guy who's actually fly fished once Paker. (Just razzin' ya' a bit.)"

Gotta admit Parker.....that was good!

I nominate Paker as artistic and composition director of said TV spot. Brings a tear to my eye, yes it does.

It's pretty simple for me.

I know it's a blood sport, and never thought or claimed otherwise.

I use much heavier gear than most anyone I know, and anyone who's ever seen me fight a fish...even those well into the 20's...will tell you that they sure as hell aren't tuckered out when I get 'em in.

I have, and will continue to put in years of service to the resource...and on the balance I like to think some of my time has saved more fish than I've killed via CnR.

Ban fishing altogether, and you will see the end of the steelhead come rather quickly...without fishermen, who would care if they were there or not?

I'm going to continue to fish, continue to donate time and resources to the resource, and sleep just fine at night, thank you very much!

Fish on...

Todd

Yeah but your rod is.

Rods can be replaced...dead fish are dead.

Fish on...

Todd