Ok, I'll agree that the above statements by GBL are either somewhat off base or he's just yanking some chains.

Fly caught steelhead by an educated and experienced fly angler are not any more prone to die during the C&R process than gear or bait caught steelhead. Even the fish English Pete caught would probably have survived if he had let it go.

I will argue that there is a HUGE increase of *novice* fly anglers out on the rivers now with 2-handed spey rods that probably don't have the necessary experience in landing large quantities of steelhead to really know how to properly, effectively, and quickly land a steelhead.



Really? If I thought what GLB posted as "off base", I am truly at a loss for your statement. I think you're not even in the ball park here.....





Will you please provide the links to these plentiful studies?

There are plenty of studies that do show C&R mortality is increased by such things as length/duration of how long a fish is fought, direct exposure to air of the gills, hook placement within the mouth eye, and water temperature.



I'm going to keep fishing along with everyone else here. What I *have* done is to maximize my techniques and handling skills to reduce the chances of C&R mortality on my fish. It will never be zero, but I sleep well at night knowing that I'm doing all I can for the wild steelhead as a recreational angler in our state.

Ok, I'll take that bet.

While I don't disagree with the part that you feel you can land a VW bus quickly with your spey rod, I, as well as most of the people I fish with would flat out SMOKE you on time alone to land the same VW with my 8' 6" 1025c, 15lb UG on my Revo in a drift boat. Heck, a 1263.5 spooled up with 30lb PowerPro and 15 pound leader damn near skips a steelhead across the surface...if one wanted too.....Just ask Batson.

If you'd said "both on the beach", I think it would be a pretty fair bet. But you did say I get to be in a boat. A moving boat can catch up to *any* fish in about two oar strokes if they truly want too. The fight would over in seconds.......

I never said I had to be in a sled...side drifting....fishing an ultra-light 1141s with 8lb main line.....which is probably what you are witnessing or were thinking of.



Agreed.

We, as anglers, need to lead by example and stop the allowable harvesting of any wild steelhead in our state. IE, a state wide ban on the harvesting of wild steelhead.

Once that happens, we organize as a group (yeah, I know, wild dream) and go to places like Komo, Kiro, and King TV and show them working tribal gillnets in action. We go on TV and do pieces that show a fisherman (I nominate Stam) catching and *releasing* a wild steelhead. The audience sees a fish swim away and Stam makes some statement about how he's not killing the wild fish, etc. Next scene turns to a gillnet on the Hoh loaded with dead wild steelhead....and more scenes of the tribes harvesting away with their gillnets hauling in dead fish after fish. Pan back to Stam, who's got a TEAR in his eye and says "I thought they said they were the Stewards of our Environment......"

Almost entirely agree Mr. Paker. Except where you say, ". . . I will argue that there is a HUGE increase of *novice* fly anglers out on the rivers now with 2-handed spey rods that probably don't have the necessary experience in landing large quantities of steelhead to really know how to properly, effectively, and quickly land a steelhead. . ."

I'd revise that to say "novice anglers" period. Gear choice has less to do with assertively playing a fish than experience. Newbies know less about what their gear can do, and they either pull too hard (and break off) or not hard enough.

My experience indicates that fish are landed faster from a boat than from the bank for the simple reason that fish landed from a boat are generally in deeper water, and they don't fear the boat. They struggle against being dragged into shallow water, which is what bank anglers must do to land them. If I wade into crotch deep water, I can get a fish close to hand a lot faster than I can on the beach. However, because the fish is still green, I can't man-handle it and would need a net to control it.

That's an otherwise accurate post for a guy who's actually fly fished once Paker. (Just razzin' ya' a bit.)

Sg

"We, as anglers, need to lead by example and stop the allowable harvesting of any wild steelhead in our state. IE, a state wide ban on the harvesting of wild steelhead."

I like so many others on here would love to see this happen. Question is, how do we tackle the "foregone opportunity" dilemma? Would the Quils follow the Hohs in this case?

"That's an otherwise accurate post for a guy who's actually fly fished once Paker. (Just razzin' ya' a bit.)"

Gotta admit Parker.....that was good!

I nominate Paker as artistic and composition director of said TV spot. Brings a tear to my eye, yes it does.

It's pretty simple for me.

I know it's a blood sport, and never thought or claimed otherwise.

I use much heavier gear than most anyone I know, and anyone who's ever seen me fight a fish...even those well into the 20's...will tell you that they sure as hell aren't tuckered out when I get 'em in.

I have, and will continue to put in years of service to the resource...and on the balance I like to think some of my time has saved more fish than I've killed via CnR.

Ban fishing altogether, and you will see the end of the steelhead come rather quickly...without fishermen, who would care if they were there or not?

I'm going to continue to fish, continue to donate time and resources to the resource, and sleep just fine at night, thank you very much!

Fish on...

Todd

Yeah but your rod is.

Rods can be replaced...dead fish are dead.

Fish on...

Todd

Actually, many of the BC steelhead lodges will not allow gear anglers because the thought is that it is too effective and ... just some FYI [/quote]


How many fish are hooked and landed on a swung fly in a day of fishing? From what I've seen two would be a great day. Probably the least effective method out there.

OK, I was being a bit cynical for my buddy the fly fisherman, BUT I can land a 20lb. Steelhead in about a third the time he can and he is an expert on the fly rod.
But saying that, I have seen guys with spinning reels let a fish run 100 yards a couple times.
I will say Parker, during the summer I'll bet fly caught Steelhead or gear caught where it takes 20 minutes to land a fish will produce more deaths than those of us that can thumb down and control a bucking, jumping summer run that will be out of gas if left to thrash about to long.
I only pick on fly fishermen because I can and have been one for 45 years, just choose to use my Revo instead!

I know. I was only ribbing you abit!

I'll beat a dead horse a little more here:
I think a distinction must be made versus single-hand and two-hand fly rods to accurately say whether a steelhead can be landed quicker on fly versus gear. Can I land a steelhead on an 8 weight single hander as quickly as I could on a gear rod...75% of the time probably not...but we're talking less than a few minutes difference. I cringe when I hear people talk about fighting a fish for 30 minutes (both gear and fly mind you)...I can't comprehend what steelhead would ever take 30 minutes to land.

With a two-hander I can probably land a steelhead faster than just about anybody can with a gear rod. Using 12/15 pound Maxima, a size 1 Gammy octopus hook, an 8/9 spey rod and a saltwater grade large arbor reel with a 10 plate stacked carbon fiber disc drag, I can winch a 20 pound steelhead directly in if required.

It boils down to experience more than gear every time...most people just don't have confidence in their knots/line/hook/rod to apply maximum effective pressure. I grew up fishing for 5-10 pound trout on 5X and 6X tippets and you'd be amazed how much force you can apply to a fish on 4 pound tippet and a size 22 hook.

I've spent a fair bit of time fishing and floating the rivers of the OP, and I can't say I've ever seen any dead steelhead floating in the river that were obvious C&R fatalities...not to say it doesn't happen, but I've never seen the results of it.

I've seen multiple dead steelhead that had been CnR'ed. The "worst" two I can think of were both in the upper Hoh and both had Gami's in the back of their mouth where the angler had cut the line at the mouth (the best option considering...). Personally, I don't ever remember deep hooking a native. I've certainly killed a bunch of little ones that have had their eyes, gills, tongues, and brains pierced with "big" hooks.

The claim that the average banky fly guy is landing fish quicker than gear guys in a boat is WAY off. Boats will almost always land fish quicker and with less stress to a fish than anyone on the bank, regardless of technique used to actually hook the fish. Most hot fish that head downstream generally get chased in the boat to some degree and don't have to be pulled all the way back up to where they were hooked. There are obviously exceptions, like that horrible video someone posted (and then took down) from a guide's boat a few weeks ago.

I'm no different than Todd, except I don't target wild fish.

Team Hatchery.

Mf

Actually, many of the BC steelhead lodges will not allow gear anglers because the thought is that it is too effective and ... just some FYI [/quote]

Thanks for the info Bob.

Yeah well guess what GBL...not everyone has a pristine watershed they are privy to fish 1K Miles from the nearest major population center. I agree with you that without human interuption, nature can do amazing things.

Everyone of use that fish for natives are not doing the fish any favors. ymmv.