Hankster
Blue Haired Bay Area Hippie!
Registered: 01/24/07
Posts: 17077
Loc: City By The Bay
1. His base wanted him to (your bundler point) because they care about the issue.
They do care about the issue and his base sent him more than a million in the hour after he issued his statement. The cynical part of me saw his campaign donations lagging from what they were at the same point in '08. He needed to get that rolling again, so he picked that time to do it. He was up your way today to raise funds and he'll be at Clooney's digs tonight with other bundlers to pick up another $6+ mil. The wheels of politics are greased with money, you know.
Another point I'll make about the donations lagging from some because of his reluctance to endorse the cause can be found in this statement:
Norman Lear, the television producer, said moments after the announcement that he and his wife, Lyn, who had held back from giving money to Mr. Obama, would now contribute the maximum allowed, $80,000 between them. “This is the kind of leadership we support, and we are happy to max out today to his re-election campaign,” he said.
Nationwide polling trends don't hold true in the states (30 now) that don't recognize gay marriage. Seven of the nine swing states have bans or near bans. When the issue has been put on the ballot, a gay-marriage ban usually passes by a wide margin: Fifty-five percent in Colorado, 62 percent in Florida, 62 percent in Ohio, 57 percent in Virginia, 67 percent in Nevada, 59 percent in Wisconsin and North Carolina, now, with 61 percent. Even California had over 52%. You could eliminate the black vote and those numbers would drop, but it wouldn't matter because blacks will vote for him regardless.
3. Biden waded in and forced the presidents hand.
If there's one thing you can count on from Slow Joe, it's the fact he's a gaffe factory working three shifts. I have a feeling he was testing the waters, but he did come out today and apologize to the Big-O. Obama said Biden ‘Got Out a Little Bit Over His Skis’. Otherwise...
4. Because he's held this opinion (and his tongue) for a long time as a political compromise. FINALLY his public opinion matches his private.
The Amazing Evolving Obama. Here's what he said in '04 during his run for the Senate:
And when he was running for prez in '08:
Now, after his epiphany, his metamorphosis is complete and he can beat the campaign stump with new vigor. At some point though, he'll have to get down to brass tacks and start talking about how he's planning on fixing the economy and getting people back to work. In the general scheme of things, there aren't a lot of folks who care whether Heather has two mommies, or it was Adam and Eve in the garden; not Adam and Steve.
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"There is no solution. They'll never fix anything."
“There is science, logic, reason; there is thought verified by experience. And then there is California.” -Edward Abbey
to me obama is not pandering because it is a position that may actually hurt his reelection chances not withstanding some fundraising boost from gay donors.
the evangelical crazies do not really like romney but this position by obama might get them fired up enough to energize the base in swing states.
to me, a changed position that hurts one's political chances speaks volumes more than changing one's positions on a daily basis.
obama may have made a gutsy call to go into pakistan for bin laden... but romney has even bigger balls lying about his past positions on a daily basis.
You spend far more (as in too much) time in explaination of the obvious.....and for what? The chances of changing anyone's beliefs here are somewhere between zero and one half of one percent...being generous.
I always appreciate how the Left Ringers always try to say that any original thoughts and statements contrary to their own talking points must be the result of a mass right wing conclusion.
The whole point of this thread is obvious, but maybe not so much for some.
It boils down to ......... Flip Floppin' ain't a Romney exclusive trait. You dipsticks can try to find some heart warming reason for "O" boy's reversal, but it doesn't wash.....it was and is all about the money, honey.........
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Agendas kill the truth.
Todd: There is no liberal media bias...period. ( )
Dogfish: Take stupid chances, win stupid prizes.
FishRanger: "FVCK that, we need to spike the F'n ball, look into the cheap seats and say you're next M'F'r, you wanna play too ? !"
Hankster
Blue Haired Bay Area Hippie!
Registered: 01/24/07
Posts: 17077
Loc: City By The Bay
Originally Posted By: Slab Happy
Hank, once again I salute you.
You spend far more (as in too much) time in explanation of the obvious.
For a lot of these folks (and I'm talking to you too, Abby), I have to spend a lot of time and talk real slow so they can catch on. They're pretty dim.
Pictures help too.
_________________________
"There is no solution. They'll never fix anything."
“There is science, logic, reason; there is thought verified by experience. And then there is California.” -Edward Abbey
The pot head can't even understand that Slab stopped drinking 25 years ago....he's fried.
With one shot of booze, slab would instantly revert to drunk loser mode and start doing his best Skul Fuc impression
I don't know if I would revert "instantly", but it wouldn't be long...."Better living through chemistry" is like that. I reached a point where I almost killed a guy after starting a fight with two loud-mouths......and I didn't care. That's pretty serious stuff. I really don't want to go back there....and it certainly isn't likely that anyone here will get me started.....
_________________________
Agendas kill the truth.
Todd: There is no liberal media bias...period. ( )
Dogfish: Take stupid chances, win stupid prizes.
FishRanger: "FVCK that, we need to spike the F'n ball, look into the cheap seats and say you're next M'F'r, you wanna play too ? !"
Is your entire life about the desire to criticize people for actually changing their minds? To me there are three kinds of people. People who can't MAKE UP their minds on anything. People who have opinions but are not afraid change their minds thoughtfully. And finally people who never change their minds.
In your world the first two groups are "flip floppers", but the third group are the ones who have courage.
In my universe the first and last group are pinheads--for changing your mind -- actually allowing yourself to be persuaded by new information, new situations -- that is the hallmark of an active mind.
And while we're on the subject of flip-flopping, how is it that you're going to vote for a guy who flip flopped 180 degrees on major public policy issues (romneycare anyone?) and still bury the President for changing his position about 10 degrees on this issue?
... or is the real issue just that you'll parrot what the RW media wants you to say?
Parroting the RW media would be correct if it weren't for the fact the LW media has also speculated whether the Big-O made his historical announcement for the purpose of campaign contributions. The plea for cash that came out only a few hours afterwards is available on multiple sites and they're not all RW.
I'd say I was more cynical of his decision to do this at this time. He had long held the view gays should have rights accorded to others in the matters of hospital visitation, estates and other reasons. He still maintains states should make the decisions on whether gay marriages are recognized. His previous view could be considered 'separate but equal' because he thought marriage should be something between a man and a woman only.
In that 7 of 9 swing states have decided not to recognize them, his decision to come out in favor may or may not make a difference in how those states vote. Who knows? I kind of doubt it because it's something that's at the bottom of the list of voters' concerns.
So, my feeling is he really did it because campaign cash bundlers had told him they would withhold any further donations or efforts until he made his announcement.
In any case, a RWWJ beat him to the punch when Cheney endorsed gay marriages way back in '09.
I'm looking forward to the "Romney is a bully" discussion.
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I'd Rather Be Fishing for Summer Steelhead!
Hankster
Blue Haired Bay Area Hippie!
Registered: 01/24/07
Posts: 17077
Loc: City By The Bay
The media picking up something that happened nearly a half-century ago and trying to make something of it is pretty amusing to me. "Romney puts dogs on the roof of his car, and not only that, he's a bully too."
OK, Obama eats dog and he pushes chubby black girls until they run away crying.
The next thing we'll find out about Romney is he once spilled his milk when he was a toddler...and he didn't even say he was sorry.
_________________________
"There is no solution. They'll never fix anything."
“There is science, logic, reason; there is thought verified by experience. And then there is California.” -Edward Abbey
Weren't the republicans crying about Obamas birth certificate. Both sides are babies that bitch and whine and find the most retarded things to defame a person character. Positions of power come with the guaranteed end result of not being able to please everyone. They're all better men to me. Id tea bag every lil shiet talker starting with O'reilly then Cooper. Just sayin'.
Wait so what's the statute of limitations on "old" stuff then Hank?
I mean at least Romney was the ACTOR here, unlike the criticism you happily engaged in of Obama's former preacher.
Can we all agree that ALL this stuff is nonsense? Either that or stop complaining about people bringing up this stuff.
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The charm of fishing is that it is the pursuit of what is elusive but attainable, a perpetual series of occasions for hope. -John Buchan
Salmo g.
River Nutrients
Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 10105
Slab & Sol,
If you guys had half a brain between you, you'd put Abu on ignore. No offense to you or Abu, but your inane pot shots at each other waste bandwidth in political threads. Hank, you too.
Hankster
Blue Haired Bay Area Hippie!
Registered: 01/24/07
Posts: 17077
Loc: City By The Bay
Originally Posted By: IrishRogue
Wait so what's the statute of limitations on "old" stuff then Hank?
I mean at least Romney was the ACTOR here, unlike the criticism you happily engaged in of Obama's former preacher.
Can we all agree that ALL this stuff is nonsense? Either that or stop complaining about people bringing up this stuff.
You tell me, IR. Is the statute of limitations 48+ years for Romney, or is it 30+ years for Obama? It is nonsense and I didn't bring it up; I responded to someone who did. I left Obama's former preacher out of that response. Why did you bring him up?
_________________________
"There is no solution. They'll never fix anything."
“There is science, logic, reason; there is thought verified by experience. And then there is California.” -Edward Abbey
Salmo g.
River Nutrients
Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 10105
You're boring me Hank. What do you think of Rocky Anderson and his independent or Justice Party campaign? As indys go, I agree with far more of his platform than say, Ross Perot or Ron Paul. Of course, his ideological outlook seems doomed in a government electoral process bought and paid for by global corporate interests.
Hankster
Blue Haired Bay Area Hippie!
Registered: 01/24/07
Posts: 17077
Loc: City By The Bay
Specifically, 23% of independents and 10% of Democrats say it makes them less likely to vote for Obama, while a smaller 11% of independents and 2% of Republicans say it makes them more likely to vote for Obama. Those figures suggest Obama's gay marriage position is likely to cost him more independent and Democratic votes than he would gain in independent and Republican votes, clearly indicating that his new position is more of a net minus than a net plus for him. However, those figures also underscore that it is a relatively limited group of voters -- about one in three independents and fewer than one in 10 Republicans or Democrats -- whose votes may change as a result of Obama's new stance on gay marriage.
_________________________
"There is no solution. They'll never fix anything."
“There is science, logic, reason; there is thought verified by experience. And then there is California.” -Edward Abbey
Salmo g.
River Nutrients
Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 10105
And for any voter with half a brain or more, gay marriage is NOT a presidential campaign issue. It's not even a political issue. Thinking voters will base their decision on issues that matter to the welfare of the nation. Well, no, they actually won't, because if that were the case Obama and Romney would both be losers.