The Squaxin study above is looking at freshwater habitat use, which is a good thing to understand, but it is pretty clear that the main problem right now is in the marine environment. Deschutes coho smolt production is well-correlated with the number of adults that return and that adult to smolt ratio has not declined during the recent population crash. However, survival after the smolts hit the saltwater is a fraction of what it was in the 1980's.

That run used to withstand extremely high exploitation rates, and still managed to maintain several thousand returning spawners. Once the marine survival went down, even reduced harvest rates were not enough to keep the population from crashing.

Here are some links that will provide more background information on the Puget Sound issues.

The Puget Sound Recreational Fisheries Enhancement Oversight Committee meets quarterly to assist the WDFW in the programs authorized under the RCW 77.105. We're trying to get as much as we can out of the funding available. Meetings are announced and the public is welcome to attend. If we get 3 - 5 attendees, we're doing well but we'd like more folks to show up. Meeting locations change and seating can be an issue, but we can adapt as necessary. Meetings are often at a WDFW facility and usually run from 5 p.m. to 9 p.m.

We are moving away from yearling production as the results have not been good over the past few years, plus it was becoming harder to be assured of good, clean, cold water needed to raise the fish not to mention health checks and feed costs.

Production and releases of zero age fish can be increased considerably with the same dollars that were needed to produce yearlings. Some of the zeros will residualize like the yearlings. Many will go to sea. When they come back, they are a "bonus", if you will, to the standard hatchery release numbers we've seen in the past few years.




http://wdfw.wa.gov/hatcheries/pshaac/

Commission policy on hatcheries
http://wdfw.wa.gov/commission/policies/c3619.html

Brood document - check your favorite rivers
http://wdfw.wa.gov/hatcheries/future_brood.html

Puget Sound Chinook
http://wdfw.wa.gov/publications/pub.php?id=00854
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Here's a letter sent to the Commissioners and Director last October as it related to one of the issues we were working on in preparation for the 2012 legislative session and the agency budget issues as they related to the PSRFE program.


To: WDFW Commissioners
Director Anderson

FROM: Puget Sound Recreational Fisheries Enhancement Oversight Committee (David Croonquist, Rich Eltrich, Don Freeman, David Knutzen, Mike Gilchrist, Clint Muns, Pete Naylor, David Puki, Matt Parnel, Norm Reinhardt)


The Puget Sound Recreational Fisheries Enhancement (PSRFE) Oversight Committee (OC) would like to express our appreciation to Jim Scott, Ron Warren and agency staff. In late October the department presented a proposal to increase overall hatchery Chinook production funded under the PSRFE budget. This increase in production of stocks that contribute strongly to the sport fishery would have come at the cost of closing Lakewood Hatchery Complex. While an increase in production was favorable, the OC was specifically concerned with the closing of Garrison Springs Hatchery within the Lakewood Complex. Of the facilities funded under the PSRFE program Garrison Springs has one of the highest Chinook survival rates, produces fish in the sport catch at the lowest cost per fish rate and is a general mainstay of the sport catch throughout Puget Sound. This was addressed in a November 1st letter to Jim Scott from the OC with cc copies sent to your offices.

Jim Scott worked with the committee and addressed our concerns. The outcome was a beneficial package to the recreational community that kept Garrison Springs production solvent, addressed independent citizen concerns on returning fish passage within the watershed, and resulted in an overall increase in Puget Sound Chinook production. Utilizing the funds that are provided to the department from the sport community to the greatest recreational benefit is the direction the department needs to continue.

This is a positive example of the volunteer advisory process being utilized within the agency. It is great to have our needs, opinions, and recommendations fully evaluated but more importantly it was rewarding to know our recreational dollars will be spent in a manner consistent with the intent of the PSRFE legislation.

The OC looks forward to working with the department in the coming month on the establishment of legislatively required goals for the PSRFE program. Hopefully this process can continue in the same light as the positive outcome of our latest collaboration.

Doesn't producing zeros defeat the purpose of the entire program?

Fish on...

Todd

Gotcha AM - I've seen those salt water studies too. At least they are looking into it. I agree they need to get credit for trying. Not sure what we can do to fix whatever it is though.

Fishing for blackmouth and returning fish is doing just fine... In fact, how's a 32#r this past Mother's Day and quite a few teeners. My best winter fish this winter in MA13 was 17#.

However... I like the way you guys are thinking (no fish). I'll fish MA13 over MA11 anyday!

The link to the PSRFE program just went on line today. Lots of information on what we've been doing can be found.

http://wdfw.wa.gov/fishing/salmon/psrfef/

I might be in the great minority here, but I'll venture a theory on one of the main reasons why the winter blackmouth fishing in South Sound is so poor now. First of all, the numbers of delayed release Chinook have been greatly reduced - the closing of the freshwater rearing of these fish in Capitol Lake coincides pretty much with the decline of the winter fishery, and the McAllister hatchery's closure didn't help either.

Consider the commercial herring fishery's LONG term depletion of herring stocks over the past three or four decades. I believe that these stocks have been over fished and under reported for years and years. I remember the abundance of herring that were easily seen while fishing South Sound years ago. Where are they now? Hiding? No, they are gone.

Consider the tremendous abundance of marine mammals in South Sound. They have to eat something, especially herring and salmon. No wonder South Sound experiences such a low survival rate. There's nothing for salmon living their lives down there to eat! First, the delayed release hatchery salmon feed the marine mammals when the natural ecosystem is devoid of natural fish, and then a glut of hatchery salmon released into the system with enough numbers so that many do survive.

Our South Sound ecosystem is out of balance. The marine fish like pollock, tom cod and perch are gone too. The ecosystem needs a lot of help, and some real intervention.

Somebody has mentioned, too, that in S Sound there are now more anchovies (I believe); they would appear to have replaced, numerically, the herring.

But, if they are not available to salmon, are the wrng size at the wrong time, etc. then they are of no help to the predators. Tug's right that the ecosystem has radically changed. Since nature abhores a vacuum (except when it is seen in leadership positions) it may be that what is in S Sound now is not working for the salmon.

What makes you guys think the fishing is so poor in MA13? I don't think for one minute it is a lack of fish, rather the lack of anglers! I understand fuel restrictions and cost, perhaps you don't know the entire marine area, Percival Cove net pens, or perhaps you don't give two craps, but I rarely see another boat, other than buddies, thoroughout the year. You make it sound like there isn't a single fish to be caught!

Salt steelhead? You betcha! There are a few spots you can intercept them moreso than Whidbey! (Don't ask!)

Chums? Nisqually? Nah. John's Creek? Nah. Minter? Nah... Nothing on the map that would make you think otherwise. Case Inlets is plum full of chums in season- Napa Auto Parts- yes!

Pinks? The Nisqually had one of the largest runs in the 50's (I am not that old, but I have researched this quite a bit). We still get quite a few down here and they can be intercepted just south of the bridge.

Frankly, I would put MA13 an immediate second behind MA7 for blackmouth and returning kings! Yep, call me crazy! Hell, Aunty M has one of the best spots just off her doorstep- "The Tennis Courts."

Same in the deep south of MA12... Anyone still fish the Chicken Hole? We are all aware of the oxygen depletion in Hood Canal... Guess what? There are still a ton of Blackies this far south! Ayres or Musqueti Point? "The Great Wall" off Tahuya? Sisters Point?

I believe I can take top honors in saying that I fish MA13, perhaps more than anyone alive in the last 36-plus years, and there is still a lot of fish to be caught. I still fish 60 or more days a year (use to fish 100-plus days- not anymore) and rarely get shunked (without a keeper fish). I can proudly say I've probably weighed in more derby "money fish" from MA13 too. It is probably because no one but a handful of us hardcore guys still fish it (there's no competition). Granted places like Devils Head, Johnson Point, Point Fosdick, and the shelf off Day Island are no longer the mecca they once were in the 60's and 70's, I guess most of you don't realize what you are missing. Perhaps it is the lack of "written reports" in the News Tribune or the reports for other locations that suck you in... Frankly, I got quite the chuckle when I crossed the bridge on the MA11 opener (June 01) and saw 20-plus boats jigging of Evans and then a phone call from a friend with a limited off Green Point early in the morning. The only time I see 20-boats south of the bridge is in August!

Herring.... I don't know where you guys are getting your information on the lack of bait, but there is still a ton of it in the south. In fact, acoustic surveys indicated more herring in the Wollochet stock than previous years. This time of year Wollochet and Hale Passagge is loaded, as well as Chambers, and Devils Head. Gibson is still pumping out a great evening bite too in the late spring into summer! Herron Island up to Vaughn Bay is generally loaded with both herring, anchovies, and Chambers fish following too! The 2012 Mother's Day 32#r was taken of NE of Fosdick on the flats with tons of baits around! When was the last time anyone heard of a fish over 30# in May down here?

Anchovies.... are on tap year around now. Just saw quite a few fairly large schools off Green Point just the other day feeding on amphipods in the surface film. However, they mainly stay further south- Devils Head and south. I wouldn't say the anchovies have numerically replaced the herring, but definitely in direct competition in areas of high zooplankton blooms. Ironically, only a few fish have stomach samples of anchovies...

Groundfish.... Although not the nuissance they once were in the 70's, we catch a few small rockfish and cod here and there. Perhaps some of you can remember two years ago when guys where catching a lot of them in MA11 and MA13. Additionally, I quit fishing lings this year because of too many rockfish on the rockpile north of TOA.

McCallister is closed yes, but what about the Deschutes, Minter, Chambers, or Nisqually hatcheries? Not to mention other secret flowing waters in MA13? I cannot think of another reason why, other than instinctive inclinations, why fish would be in the areas they are at the appropriate times of year.

Granted the coho fishery has went to hell since the net pens at Fox Island disappeared, but the chinook fishery is alive and well my friends. Lastly, It doesn't take forensic science to know that most of the deepest of South Sound blackmouth head north and are caught off the southern end of Vancouver Island (do some research)... On the other hand, I (we) experience some great fishing in the winter. I would attribute this to the amount of bait and fish being draw into the area. Do I dare mention a large population of sand lance spawing- akin to Mid Channel (usually in Novemeber)? We can reach a two fish limit fairly easy in May when everyone else is waiting for the June opener in MA11.

The beauty of MA13 are several fishing spots are within a very short boat run. I.e., eight major points of land and an additional five "holes of interest" are within a 15-minute run of one another...(to mention a few) Most are generally out of the elements and at least three of these spots hold fish at any given time. You would call me crazy if I mentioned two of my favorite blackmouth holes are a pinnacle off Penrose Point and a deep water "bowl" off McNeil Island in Drayton Passage.

You guys can fish MA11 all you want for 10K returning kings to the Pew, but I take over 60K-plus returning south of the bridge anyday! Betcha ya didn't know Minter Creek gets more returning kings than the Pew... but for some reason folks are compelled to chase the lore and history of MA11- mainly Point Defiance. I don't get it!

I'll pass along a little bit of a MA13 tip... If you're not finding fish in the proverbial 90 to 150-feet, rest assured they have moved a lot deeper over the years. I wouldn't bat an eye at chasing/catching winter fish at 200-plus feet. Rest assured the bait is/has been that deep!

If anyone has the time and desire to learn my beloved MA13, I'd be happy to have you along... As long as it takes! It now takes me less than five minutes to walk down to the beach and pull the boat ashore in Wollochet Bay! With a full punch card or two, we could prove to others that MA13 is alive and well. I would only ask that you freely, without reservation, pass along anything you gained to younger crowd. One of the few things inportant to me after I am gone (less the kids and grand kids) is that our salmon fishing continues for many years to come. I definitely hold no secrets... Without the passion to catch salmon in the years to come, we truly have nothing! Broad statement, but so true for those that love the saltchuck!

Very interesting, Captain. Thank you for the rebuttle.....it was very interesting. I would still disagree with you on a few things, but obviously you have strong feelings and assertions about South Sound. Thanks for taking the time to inform us. I'm amenable to going fishing with you anytime in the future. Just let me know.

Todd

The information we got about going to more zeros is that they give us a better contribution to the winter fishery and we can raise more of them with the money available than we can yearlings, especially with the lack of availability of good, cold, year-round water at the hatcheries that is needed for yearling production. It is a trade-off that we were/are comfortable with.

The link that bushbear put up to the PSRFE program has some interesting information.

The last document attached as Meeting Minutes for the advisory group's October 24th meeting shows recent survival, contribution to all sport fisheries, contribution to blackmouth fisheries and cost/fish contributed to both sport fisheries for several different yearling and fingerling programs. With the exception of Minter Creek yearlings, there currently doesn't appear to be a huge advantage in contribution rate for yearling versus fingerling releases to these fisheries. As Carcassman noted above, the yearling Chinook generally contributed as "well" (I will add "or as poorly"), as the fingerlings.

At the current survival rates, the cost of putting fish into these sport fisheries is also relatively low for most fingerling programs versus yearling programs. Soos Creek fingerlings, however, are surprisingly expensive - costing over $2000 for each fish into the blackmouth fishery. This is several times the cost per fish caught of all the other programs described. However, because of the size of the Soos Creek program (3.2M fish), it has the second highest number of fish contributed of the programs described.

Personally, I'm glad that folks are finally looking at the actual fishery contribution of these programs rather than judging success solely on the number of fish that were released.

But if the point is to keep the fish in inner Puget Sound, isn't that why they keep them to be yearlings? That the zeros are far less likely to stay?

Fish on...

Todd

Not all fingerlings leave and not all yearlings stay. Under current conditions, some fingerling programs are producing enough fish that stay to contribute to the blackmouth fishery at a rate that is similar to most of the yearling programs.

I'm gonna have to spend more time in MA13 in the Bailey Too.!!

Then why have we been bothering to raise fish to yearling size for so long?

Forgive me for saying so, but this kinda looks to me like "the program we want isn't working, so let's just do this other thing instead"...while still calling it the old program.

Fish on...

Todd

Most of the delayed release will stay in the Sound while only some of the fingerlings. It becomes a math exercise. When survival rates are high enough, the yearlings support a fishery. When they fall low enough, as they have, they actually return numerically fewer fish.

Remember, too, that the delayed releases will number in the thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands while fingerling releases can be in the millions.

And, as noted, it is money and water. I believe that yearlings released from freshwater are the ones that residualize at high rates. Apparently, the trigger to stay is age at saltwater entry so raising yearling in marine net pens was not as good a way to go. And, of course, it costs a lot less to produce the smaller fish.

As Carcassman says, under a different survival situation, the yearlings contribute a lot more fish to these fisheries than fingerlings. All you have to do is look at the CWT information from the early years of the program. However, that currently is not the case. I also suspect that some at the department may be looking for rationale to fund some programs with PSRFE funds that might otherwise go away. Nevertheless, the contribution rates that I referenced (from the PSRFE page) make it quite clear what is happening.

Again, I am pleased that people are actually looking at what is currently happening rather than simply repeating the dogma that only yearlings and yearlings only contribute to blackmouth fisheries. That statement has never been true although many of the old guard at the department would go to their graves with it on their lips.

Another example of dogma over data

Way back, in the 80s, WDF ran a spring Chinook program on the Dungeness, primarily from gaffed fish. Fish were reared to yearlings because that was "what you did with spring Chinook". One of the tribal bios pointed out that the scales they were reading, of springers, showed no yearlings, only fingerling smolts. WDF still held to the yearling release dogma because "that's how it works on the Columbia".

The question that I need answered is: Why was the delayed release program so successful in South Sound in the 70's and early 80's but such a bust for winter fishing now?

As Capt. Downriggin asserts, it is still good now - but in different locations - why isn't it good in the "old" locations? If the program that is mandated by statute to improve the winter blackmouth fishing isn't working for the Tacoma/Olympia area fisheries, how do we turn that around?

I'm envious of those who have good fishing up north.