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#76470 - 04/27/03 03:04 PM Here Chappy Chappy, Where are You?
Anonymous
Unregistered


I have been gone fishing for awhile and was really looking forward to hearing your explanations to many of the questions posed to you last week before the forum went down.

One that I would really like to hear is, you mentioned ethics and then you mention you were a campaign organizer to ban trapping and others, right?
If your statements are true then that must mean you have intimate knowledge of the campaign violations the states Attorney General fined "your" campaign.

On one hand you stand on your ethics soapbox and state the baiting,hounding, trapping are unethical but then on the other hand you break campaign laws? I just dont get it!
You can actually break campaign laws and get fined for it but then you condone others for abiding by the law and say they have no ethics.
Do I see a double standard here? please explain.

I am sure many more here have more questions for ya. So please, when you get a chance put the tofu bowl down and lets hear your side..

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#76471 - 04/28/03 01:01 AM Re: Here Chappy Chappy, Where are You?
lupo Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 09/16/02
Posts: 1571
Loc: seattle wa
hey there! sorry been out getting sunburned at drano zoo. i guess my response would be that your statement sounds like you might think that every Tim Eyeman Supporter had intimate knowledge of his camapaign violations. alot of the questions sounded like they were asking how can you support this movement and not call your self an animal rights activist. I guess i didnt mean to sound like I dont think i believe in animal rights, i do. but I would never sum myself up in one title like that(or terrorist) If i had to call myself one title(like introducing yourself at an AA meeting) i guess it would have to be "helo I am chad and I am a fisherman" .
But I know that you are right about the campaign violations. I cant take blame for it and i hope i didnt sound like I was knowlegable of the decision makers or anything. i was living back in colorado during it and I wrote alot of letters back home to washington reps and such. I believe in ethical hunting for meat and out of respect for the animal. I also believe in ethical politics and it hurts our cause when out of state groups fail to stay within the rules when trying to bring about change. in all honesty it is very easy for groups going thru the initiative process to fail to do this.
this happens to all kinds of groups(like tim eyeman). One reason is that politics is so dirty that people believe that whatever it takes to win is what it takes to win. while this goes ok with elected politicians and they have no problem with this, the initiative process is different because it is ordinary citizens trying to make a change. these same dirty politicians make sure that ordinary people have to follow much more closely watched processes and declare money that elected reps would never delclare. Even though i didnt agree with tim eyeman, it was obviouse to me that the state government was actively trying to make it difficult for him to succeed.
anyway, there is no excuse for dirty politics on either side of the aisle and i wont defend the method but i did support the goal. it is important to realize that not everyone thinks the same just because they support something. I have met many many animal rights activist and i doubt that you would think any of them were bad people if you met them. If fact the best thing you can do with someone you disagree with is discuss with them. you both are sure to learn something about the views of the other. I can assure you that there is no money in activism so there is no way that any of them became such for personal gain. environmental activist's are more likely to get beat up or killed. I really take exception with the whole linking the environmental movement to terrorism and i'ss tell you two true stories. daryl cherny and judy barry were timber activist in northern california and hired killers from the timber industry put a bomb beneath their seat in their car. it almost killed them both. the interesting thig was that it blew up in the middle of the city and the bomb squad and fbi showed up at the blown up car before the first beat cop. the FBI settled out of court for covering the whole thing up for millions of dollars this year to dayrl cherny(judy is dead). they tried to say that dayrl and judy were acrrying the bomb to go use somewhere. unfortunately for the FBI story it was wired with a motion detector to go off right when they started driving. although terrorists tried to kill them and the FBI covered it up and got caught, i can guarantee you that those two were not terrorist of any sort.
When i was at WSU i headed the washington state environmental task force. this was during the time when some people claiming to be alf broke into some labs and released some animals. most of us environmentalists were pissed about it because most of the animals had never lived in the wild and would surely die. the FBI came down on us and put spies all around in little pullmans environmental groups. Rick scarce was an author writing a book about the environmental movement and the FBI wanted to question him. he would not talk to them so they threw him in federal prison in spokane for two years with no charges against him and no suspected charges. I can guarantee you that he was not a terrorist either. there are two groups that use destructive methods in their practices. ELF and ALF. many environmentalist including myself believe that ALF is real obviousely but a name claimed by unorganized small groups of animal rights activists. ELF on the other hand is probably the result of the FBI's counter intelligence programs meant to discredit all environmental groups . this is not conspiracy theory babble although it is not proven. the FBI factually has co-intel programs meant to disrupt activist groups. they will tell you so themselves.
anyway driftboat, i like to hunt and it would take me atleast an hour to tell you about why i am against baiting and trapping. but if you ever want to go pheasant hunting, you can come on out to my moms farm in palouse some time and we can shoot up some pheasant/ partridge on private property and ill give you all the time in the world to explain your take on it and you can hear mine.

ps. read the book "the monkey wrench gang" by eddward abbey. it is a fiction book that started the whole radical environmental movement. you will actually really like it. it is funny and adventure and everything. it is not about hippies. the radical environmental movement started in arizona from some colorado river guides and a redneck ex green breret that gets drunk and takes chainsaws to bilboards that block the sunset as he is driving thru the desert.
_________________________
"time is but the stream I go a-fishing in"- Henry David Thoreau

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#76472 - 04/28/03 02:02 AM Re: Here Chappy Chappy, Where are You?
CWUgirl Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 374
Loc: Seattle, WA
Chappy.... could you please seperate your paragraphs? It makes it much easier to read posts.

No one ever said ALL animal rights activists or environmentalists are terrorists or support terriorism.

However, PETA, PAWS, and the HSUS all have given money to help terrorist organizations or have condoned terrorist actions. That sort of terrorism linking should not be tolerated.

Here's all I want to know... How can you justify/support the animal rights movement which is clearly moving to ban all hunting and fishing?

Or do you have blinders on that only your narrow ethical viewpoint(which you won't even tell us) will survive their increasing legislative efforts of animal rights groups?
_________________________
"If fishing is like religion, then flyfishing is high church." -Tom Brokaw

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#76473 - 04/28/03 12:30 PM Re: Here Chappy Chappy, Where are You?
lupo Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 09/16/02
Posts: 1571
Loc: seattle wa
cwu girl- i have told you my view on ethics several times. hunting is to be done out of respect for the animal and the world we live in and should be done for meat. when children learn about "the circle of life" and learn to hunt out of respect it is a beautiful thing. children should never be taught to kill something just because you feel that there are too many around. that leads to a view on life that we could do without. we have enough senseless killing in our world. the cougar population is increasing for one main reason---NO WOLVES!

many of the posts i have read seem to suggest that hunters can do a better job of running gods planet in balance than god can do

restore the balance in our environment and you folks wont have to go around playing god and killing cougars that you wont eat. (how many stuffed animals does one girl need)

going out to curb predator populations and calling it hunting is strange to me and seems like it should be called "killing to play god".

I also go further in my beliefs and believe that game wardens should have blood alcohol brethalizers with them and it should be illegal to be intoxicated while hunting or discharging a firearm. a 4 weel atv mixed with a 1000 yard scope, a 30.06, and 3 cases of beer is an accident waiting to happen. when you have 35,000 tags for three counties in a week period and that much beer in the woods, it is no wonder that so many horses and kids and women standing in their backyards get blasted every year. in colorado, most ponies get painted pink for the deer/elk season.

there is no movement out to cease all hunting in this country. there may be a group that believes that but there is no movement. there is not one single environmental group in this country that condones terrorism. terrorism is violence against humans to bring about change. CWU girl since you constantly spew regurgitated lies about groups bieng terrorists, why dont you prove it? give me one example of violence against humans by environmentalists. did you read my post about enviro's being bombed and thrown in prison without charges? this more closely resembles terrorism. the FBI got caught covering up the assasination attempt of two activists and had to pay out the nose last year. that is terrorism! bombing people is terrorism. releasing animals from labs is assinine in most cases but not terrorism. that is vandalism. your claim that some day one of us will kill someone is absolutely laughable and a complete projection of the sentiment of the anti-environment movement onto the environmental activists. find me one example CWU girl!!!! or please stop refering to these groups as terrorists. especially when most of us enviro's believe that the ELF is run by the FBI. I have never met anyone who has ever known anyone to be involved in ELF. I can not say the same for any other environmental group out there. I highly doubt that ELF is actually environmentalists.
_________________________
"time is but the stream I go a-fishing in"- Henry David Thoreau

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#76474 - 04/28/03 05:30 PM Re: Here Chappy Chappy, Where are You?
glowball Offline
Spawner

Registered: 12/06/00
Posts: 786
Loc: bullcanyon
So let me get this straight. We have more cougars because there are no wolves. You might want to lay off the green bud man. That would mean that you thought we had a bunch of wolves in 1995 when the cougar population was not out of control. Oh yeah thats right we didn't have wolves we had hounds. I guess the wolves have nothing to do with it than do they. So you support a diminishing deer herd in order to feed the overpopulation of cougars running around. Really scares me that I'm driving down the same road that tunnel vision people like you are on.
_________________________
There's no head like steelhead!
Operations manager of coors light testing facility.

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#76475 - 04/28/03 06:46 PM Re: Here Chappy Chappy, Where are You?
Aix sponsa Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 406
Loc: Port Orchard
_________________________
In memory of Floyd M. Wright Nov 3 1925 Oct 8 2007 I love you Dad; You were the greatest.

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#76476 - 04/28/03 08:14 PM Re: Here Chappy Chappy, Where are You?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Chappy,,

Thanks for the response,, I have to agree with CWU that ya really need to put some breaks in there.. Your second post was a little better on the eyes..

I am in a hurry at the moment, so I cant pick your statements apart, but I see others are doing a damn fine job of it, I will respond to anyu specifics you may have asked of me later, I'll have to squint and re-read your post.

You did mention there is no money in activism well your wrong. Most of the signature gathers you see outside your local grocery store asking for support do get paid for each signature. Matter of fact there was legislation this year that was suppose to curb just that. Guess who the opponants were? You guessed it PETA, HSUS, PAWS, NARN, AFA and such..

Will elaborate on other things later..

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#76477 - 04/28/03 09:24 PM Re: Here Chappy Chappy, Where are You?
Aix sponsa Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 406
Loc: Port Orchard
_________________________
In memory of Floyd M. Wright Nov 3 1925 Oct 8 2007 I love you Dad; You were the greatest.

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#76478 - 04/28/03 09:37 PM Re: Here Chappy Chappy, Where are You?
CWUgirl Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 374
Loc: Seattle, WA
Okie dokie....You asked for examples.....

From the National Review http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/comment-smith100202.asp

"The deafening lack of condemnation by mainstream ARL organizations against these terrorist tactics speaks louder than their oft-stated claims to being a peaceful social movement. Indeed, the firewall that groups such as PETA have long maintained between themselves and ARL terrorists seems to be breaking down. PETA's tax-exempt status is being challenged because it admittedly paid $1,500 to ELF. (According to the FBI, ELF is one of the nation's largest terrorist groups.) According to the SPLC, PETA also provided funds to convicted animal- or environmental-rights terrorists, including contributing $20,000 to Rodney Coronado, convicted of a research lab at Michigan State College, and $7,500 to Fran Trutt, convicted of attempting to murder a medical executive."

"Indeed, the threats and violence became so extreme that Huntingdon fled Britain out of the fear that some of their own were going to be killed. They had good cause: The company's managing director was badly beaten by three masked assailants swinging baseball bats, while another executive was temporarily blinded with a caustic substance sprayed into his eyes."


http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/0215/p02s02-usju.html

http://www.emergency.com/1999/ecoter99.htm

http://www.fbi.gov/congress/congress02/jarboe021202.htm

http://paragonpowerhouse.org/when_does_activism_become_terror.htm

And there's no campaign to end all hunting/fishing? PETA is fairly mainstream... here's what they have to say

http://www.fishinghurts.com/
"Be a Pro-Fish Activist


Start planning your own pro-fish campaign to help stop the suffering of fish and other aquatic animals.

With your help, we can make a difference for the animals. Our demonstrations at fishing tournaments, seafood shows, fishing piers, and outdoor expos have opened many eyes to the violent nature of fishing. We have also shown fishing from the animals' perspective at elementary schools and discussed with the kids the many fun and nonviolent things they can do outdoors."


Nuff said. You can't have it both ways.
_________________________
"If fishing is like religion, then flyfishing is high church." -Tom Brokaw

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#76479 - 04/29/03 01:17 AM Re: Here Chappy Chappy, Where are You?
Big Bad Voodoo Daddy Offline
Spawner

Registered: 10/15/01
Posts: 912
Loc: Enumclaw
Kaari... you stole my post! It was supposed to be ME yelling at driftboater and chappy for not knowing how to write the english language.

Seriously guys, your posts arent winning me over here. Makes both groups look like idiots... At least Kaari is backing up her shiznit with real data.... Even if it doesn't have a .gov behind it. Learn how to argue, bickering is getting old.

I know some green freaks. I know the sort that would stab my pontoon and break my rods if given the chance, as well as the sort who are passive, and who's beliefs aren't to be forced on others, but instead set for themselves. The latter seem to always prevail.

driftboater, you sound like a good guy and all. I love to fish and hunt as well as anyone else, but all youre doing is starting fights... Making the good guys look like the instigators. Gee, thanks for that? At least wait till someone makes a stupid post before jumping on them.

Chappy, you sound like a good guy as well, but its entirely obvious you are confused as to what CWU, driftboater, as well as others are asking... As well as vice versa.

Why dont you guys just list what youre arguing about? Even I'm getting lost here... Are you calling his organization corrupt or all environmentalists corrupt or anyone who likes animals alive corrupt? I'm lost!

No fish hooks... Or biting ears (Kaari)!
Keep it Clean!

Curtis

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#76480 - 04/29/03 01:23 AM Re: Here Chappy Chappy, Where are You?
Josh Offline
Smolt

Registered: 11/10/02
Posts: 81
Loc: Forks
very nice CWUgirl hello thumbs

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#76481 - 04/29/03 01:34 AM Re: Here Chappy Chappy, Where are You?
Anonymous
Unregistered


BBVD,,

Just whatcha thinking there? Why do you think I am picking fights.

This Chappy made some statements and I am just want ing him to clarify them, thats all! Really sorry these questions offend you! BTW, my shnizt is backed up with real data also!

Your off the wall statements are starting to remind me of ol'chappy. If you dont understand ask a freakin question just like you did on the other post. You will get a straight up non sugar coated or PC answer from me..

Quote:
you stole my post! It was supposed to be ME yelling at driftboater and chappy for not knowing how to write the english language.
Give me a break!

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#76482 - 04/30/03 01:26 AM Re: Here Chappy Chappy, Where are You?
Big Bad Voodoo Daddy Offline
Spawner

Registered: 10/15/01
Posts: 912
Loc: Enumclaw
Driftboater, I did NOT attack your standpoint or character in any way.

The fact that you see to want to publicly humiliate people for standing against you is showing your childish ways of bickering. There is no arguement here.

Sugar coated? I've noticed an absence of that... What does that have to do with this?

No-bull answer? Yeah... right...

Not picking fights? Thats an interesting title to the thread there...

Am I sticking up for Chappy's side? Hell no. I'm sick of people limiting the ways I'm allowed to shoot a duck/deer. Chappy, most of your points disgust me.

Obviously driftboater, once again, you failed to stay focused on the real arguement. My points are:
1) Argue, dont bicker (Its annoying)
2) Use some intelligence in your arguement
3) Use somewhat better grammar

While your points were
1) Innocence of instigation, no matter the word choice.
2) You answer questions well?
3) Give you a break.

So, you answer questions well, so youre a people person? But you couldn't even take the time to thouroughly attack my post? Give me a break!

banana Curtis banana

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#76483 - 04/30/03 02:32 AM Re: Here Chappy Chappy, Where are You?
Aix sponsa Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 406
Loc: Port Orchard
_________________________
In memory of Floyd M. Wright Nov 3 1925 Oct 8 2007 I love you Dad; You were the greatest.

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#76484 - 04/30/03 12:22 PM Re: Here Chappy Chappy, Where are You?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Allright,, I will waste my time with a response to the BBVD, I cant hold back any longer. For those that emailed, I tried to bite my tongue on this one.

I hope that my 9th grade english/grammer will come back and this will read well to you BBVD, (BTW is that what grade you are in?)

Quote:
The fact that you see to want to publicly humiliate people for standing against you is showing your childish ways of bickering. There is no arguement here.
Well this is a difference of opinion.. Your more than welcome to feel that way if you choose so. I will say it again I am not here to win a GD popularity contest (kinda like they have in 9th. grade) I am here to voice my opinion! You dont like it dont read my GD posts! I give a NON sugar coated reply that has zero PC in it! Thats called BRUTAL HONESTY, BBVD. Some just get their panties all knotted up over it and apparently you are one of them!

Quote:
Obviously driftboater, once again, you failed to stay focused on the real arguement. My points are:
1) Argue, dont bicker (Its annoying)
2) Use some intelligence in your arguement
3) Use somewhat better grammar
Bickering is your opinion, and if its annoying to you do not read!

I'll try to use some more of my 9th. grade mentality so you will think I am intelligent,, BAWAhahaha,,, NOT!

I have already wasted to much of my time with this reply so I will not do a GD proof read on it making sure I cross all my "I"s and dot all my "T"s Your not worth it to me. Now if I was writting a formal letter to one of my Representatives, yes it would get picked thru very well fro gramatical mistakes but this is a GD message board!

Quote:
While your points were
1) Innocence of instigation, no matter the word choice.
2) You answer questions well?
3) Give you a break.
Scratching my head on those, just do not know whatcha mean there..

Quote:
So, you answer questions well, so youre a people person? But you couldn't even take the time to thouroughly attack my post? Give me a break!
Once again scratching my head on this one also. Did you want me to lay into you? If thats the case please state your mind young one, I am not a freaking mind reader!

Ya know BBVD I usta live out der in enimclaws. and i tinks mabe dat i can member hows to stil speeks da local "ebonic" so i mite bees able to helps you to butter inderstand whats i saying.

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#76485 - 04/30/03 06:55 PM Re: Here Chappy Chappy, Where are You?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Just wanted to chime in here. i have been around reading this forum for awhile but decided today after reading this post that i better sign up.

Driftboater you make some very valid points and I like the way you say things. Please keep it up dispite the fledgelings squaking.
I think I know you from another board I frequent and I enjoy what you have to say over there also.
Chappy you scare me, you cant walk both sides of the fence as it seems your doing.

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#76486 - 05/02/03 03:51 PM Re: Here Chappy Chappy, Where are You?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Please keep it up dispite the fledgelings squaking.
Oh so true you are! My tongue was all cut up from me biting it. Just couldnt keep biting it on this one. :p

Which Board are you talking about? I frequent a few others..

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#76487 - 05/22/03 01:39 PM Re: Here Chappy Chappy, Where are You?
bow smackin' Offline
Egg

Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 4
Loc: Washington

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#76488 - 05/22/03 07:34 PM Re: Here Chappy Chappy, Where are You?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Bow Smackin!! Welcome to the board!!

I am not sure where the Chapster comes up with many of his off the wall statements??

You make alot of sense, keep it up! Watch out there are a few on here that may attack you like they have me laugh but I love it!

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#76489 - 06/21/03 01:06 AM Re: Here Chappy Chappy, Where are You?
griz59 Offline
Juvenille at Sea

Registered: 02/15/03
Posts: 165
Loc: federal way
what a dip**** chappy i lived in colorado and never once saw a horse or any livestock painted pink during big game season. your just like all those peta freaks . EXAGGERATE.

frickin liar.

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