A Seattle seafood firm caught smuggling 85 tons of ozone-depleting refrigerant into the country will likely pay $700,000 in fines and have to retrofit five fishing vessels.


http://www.seattlepi.com/local/article/Seattle-seafood-processor-caught-smuggling-3635191.php


Fishy

So they were caught with their hand in the cookie jar and the proposed settlement has them being forced to retrofit their vessels. Big deal, something they should have done years ago. Also, they had to retroactively "buy" the allowances that would have made the import legal. Again, something they should have done. Neither of those are penalties so essentially this large corporation knowingly allowed its vessels to leak refrigerant and then were caught illegally smuggling in a huge volume of replacement refrigerant and get fined $700K - a drop in the bucket to their overall operating costs. So where is the personal liability for the person or persons responsible??

Leaking since 2006, and we are just now getting around doing something about it. WOW.

The power of alarmists in high places. We are innundated with them. Feel free to do a search or two concerning CFC's and the hoax (s) behind them. This refridgerant scare has been going on for a long time (remember hair spray in the '70's?). I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, just trying to reduce the blind trust of the "believers" of government truthfullness.

HERE is a rather dated paper on the subject that was written with some background references. A search for Ozone Hole Hoax will likely provide many more such snuffed-out decriers.

As always, "follow the money.....especially Federal Grant Money" with the knowledge that if there is no crisis advocated, there is NO grant money to finance the alarm.

It would be nice if Honesty was provided as much financial support.

just sayin'

While "agendas kill the truth" so does a general lack of knowledge about both the relevant science, the data surrounding this issue and the consensus of the atmospheric scientists who study this issue in detail. As someone who attended seminars given by the most prominent scientists studying ozone depletion and the effect of CFC's (e.g. Mario Molina), and as someone who has read several of the most relevant papers and reports, I'm 100% confident that relationship between ozone depletion and CFCs is far from a "hoax". In addition to a vast amount of well understood chemistry that would lead to being concerned about the effect AND a vast amount of understanding of how the atmosphere "works" (e.g. how it mixes and how temperature creates small droplets and ice crystals), the most telling bits of data come from flights that mapped both ozone and CFC levels as function of position. That data showed an almost perfect inverse correlation between CFC levels and ozone levels in the upper atmosphere. E.g. where CFC was higher, ozone was lower and vise versa. This was not just a few data points, this was 1000's of data points with many, many changes in the levels of both ozone and CFC's observed and the degree of inverse correlation is astounding.

Also, now that the worst CFC's have been banned in most places and CFC levels are decreasing, the level of ozone is on a slow return to previous levels. So we have a ton data showing that reality matches with what theory predicted. One paper from "George Danilovics III" claiming this to be a hoax doesn't even come close to the 1000's of papers by highly trained atmospheric scientists over the past 30+ years that demonstrate otherwise. My concern is that perhaps your level of suspicion of scientists and things you don't fully understand, leads you to more easily believe random hoax conspiracy papers and that perhaps your suspicion creates your "agenda". My suggestion is that you take the time to meet and speak to some actual atmospheric scientists and/or read the primary scientific literature surrounding this issue. If you do, I'm 100% confident that you will come to a different conclusion.

The reason these chemicals are banned is because they act as catalysts in depleting ozone but in a unique way. Unlike many chemicals which get used up in a chemical reaction, these catalysts are rejuvenated once the chemical reaction is completed. This means that for every one little catalyst molecule that escapes into the atmosphere, tens of thousands or more of the ozone molecules are depleted. This explains why the effect was observed in such a short time, what went into the atmosphere was reacting and continually reacting for years. Hence the quick movement by the world to stop using these chemicals. I believe the full understanding of what exactly is happening in the atmosphere may be under debate but there is no doubt about the chemistry behind this effect, it is observable in a laboratory.

Highly reactive chemicals are often are spent quickly, doing damage, and losing their energy, that is the way the universe works. We are used to being careful with such substances. However, in some cases such as this, catalysts which may not be harmful, can do A LOT of damage. Not by being unstable and in a high energy state, but by being in the wrong place at the right time, i.e. in a heavily stratified atmospheric layer with specific gaseous composition. Once the catalysts enters, the chain reaction starts and continues for a very long time.

Yeah, and asbestos is benign. I read a paper that said the whole boo of it is a government scare tactic to subsidize the abatement industry.

You really can make dust masks out of it, and decorate your Christmas tree with it.

Some may find THIS ditty interesting.
It came off a link from THIS

Still sounds to me like nobody knows exactly to what extent we humans are affecting Mr. Ozone.

But it does say that we should know more in another 38 years or so. Should be a good supply of grant money to keep track of it, though.....so no worries.

(KotexKid.....your goat got that yeast thing again?)

Do you have any idea where our society would be if we never had any grant money? It would still be the dark ages.

You really think if people like you got a check instead of grants going to research we would be better off?

I know a lot of those scientists that folks seem to talk crap about a lot these days and they make less than a plumber so please don't act like these people are in some ivory tower with an unlimited supply of money. This is absolutely not the case.

If you really want to fix you money problems in the university system, look to admin, just like every other business in the world, don't look to the guys that actually get their hands dirty in the field or in the lab, that is grunt work.

Try NOx

Nasa's spiel

and From Here you get.......

"Aircrafts and jet planes as we know are the major reasons for pollution and ozone depletion in the stratosphere. This has brought scientists of the world to attend to the need of the time i.e. to come up with the best alternative fuel for jets"

OK, now just think about it. Cars used to carry about 5lbs of R-12. And that's the statistic you were fed.....did anyone associate the fact that all those cars were not going to leak themselves empty? Yet, in the background quietly burning the crap out of the atmosphere were jets.....not a peep. The auto industry did address NOx emissions which were produced from high engine temperatures by reducing compression ratios and adding EGR valves (remember those power robbing devices?.....it stands for Exhaust Gas Recirculation....in other words, re-introducing "dead"...already burned exhaust....back into the combustion chambers to reduce heat and thereby reduce NOx emisssions)......jets?.....what jets? Anybody know of any jets flying around?

I'm not much different than most, except some of you may have noticed that it is usually the older guys who are more cautious when it comes to gulping down the latest crisis. It's called experience, and usually comes from a lot of past mistakes......like believing in politicians......and people covering their own asses.

Done now

Just one more example of corporate greed. The mentality of "As long as I get mine now who cares about the future?) I can't say it enough, it's money over life. It permeates everything. Next time there is some sort of disaster somewhere in the world and especially here, listen to what the news people say. Almost always the dollar loss is mentioned before the loss of life. I don't give a f#@k how much money it cost but I do care about the loss of life. Being a father I am worried for my son and daughter and their generation. We are leaving a mess that's constructed around money rather than leaving a promising future designed around humanity.