just FVCKING GREAT....

we have this cool cat, really long long hair, all white... about a week ago, he had a couple nasty hairballs, big ones too... usual tho... then, a couple days ago, he stopped eating... he lost his "pep in his step" as he used to prance around like a little kid in the play ground... he was barely even drinking water last night, so i said today, he goes to the vet...

my GF took him after her classes, an di just got the call...

not good...

they dont know what it is, all they know is that his temp is 96 degrees, and it should be 108...he is just passed out on the table, and my GF is absolutely hysterical... they have informed her that he will need to go to a 24 hour hospital immeadiately, and that we should probably consider putting him down...

what a great way to start a fvckin holliday, if it isnt a family member, or a friend, its one of my damn pets... wtf did i do to deserve this sh!t...im seriously about to just throw in the towel...

What you describe, seem a lot like what my cat had. Turns out he had a parasite in his blood and his blood count was very low. He was close to death, but is fine now.

He stopped eating, even treats . He couldn't walk more then 10-15 ft with out laying down and resting.

well they have 1 test left to do, he doesnt have aids, or leukemia, his kidneys and liver are functioning fine and my girlfriend is kinda "happy" for the moment...she is an extremely smart person, but is stubborn... yes, all those tests coming back negative, are a good sign, the bad sign was what they told her it could have been 1st off... POISON...

we live in Pierce County, there is an abundance of stray cats out here... 2 of our cats are outdoor indoor cats, and there is a little tiny bowl of food on the porch for them, sometimes, a couple of the local strays have been up there eating it, i usually shoe them away, but, not always, as they have made it the 6 years ive been here, through the cold, animals, birds, ect around here...

well one of the strays got pregnant, and went under my neighbors house a few weeks ago and had her babies, the neighbor is a nutcase (litterally), and acts one minute like its her cat, then the next minute wants nothing to do with it... one day the cat was extremely hungry, and the idiot neighbor wouldnt give her any food, even tho she lets it in her house... so my GF gave her a little bowl of food in the driveway... well, my other neighbor, who i kinda consider a friend, but wouldnt trust him as far as i could throw a 747, was all drunk and came up to my window in the office about a week ago, and tells me to come out... so, i go out, and he comes up pointing at me like a 90 year old man sayin "ive got a bone to pick with your old lady" the attitude right there almost got his a$$ whipped, and i said "why", he points to the bowl, and i explained the cat was nursing kittens, and needed to eat... he then says "put the bowl on your porch then" uhhh, hey a$$hole, this is MY driveway, anyway, he leaves all pissy, im like whatever go to bed drunk a$$... then, the cat gets sick, and 2 days ago when we were looking for the white one,(he wanted out to do his deal) he was asking all these weird questions, then telling me what i should do.... this is the same idiot that gives his cats Aspirin, and has diagnosed them with Arthritis... anyways, his attitude, and smirk, i wouldnt put it passed him if he put something in the bowl...

we have an ant problem around here, they are under the road, in the sandy soil in peoples gardens, ect... never once has the dry cat bowl had ants in it, as they go after sugary stuff, not cat food... well a couple days ago, the bowl was infested with them, which to me, could mean 3 things, 1, im worrying about nothing, this is just life, 2 Antifreeze, 3, DeCon.... if i find out that he harmed one of my pets, the least of his worries will be stray cats... and im not even kidding...

anyways... here is the cat, his name is Kitters, and is one of the coolest cats i have ever owned, yeah, he fights with others, but its more play that gets out of hand, as this one is just a bone head... poor guy...

another day in the life of...

please dont start JT, im honestly not in the mood on this one...

this is already at 350, and they havent even started yet.... ive got about 7 grand into my damn dog as well...

we had a cat when i was younger, Sadie, he was attacked by 5 German Shepards, and they completely shredded him, he had both hips replaced, and lived to be 18 years old...we have 2 other cats that were my dads, one is 16, the other is 14ish... my dog is 14 as well, so this aint gonna end for me any time soon it looks like...

when i was little,(10-12) i had a cat named Freddy, well, my friends dad didnt like cats, and my cat went into his yard once, and he shot it and put its body on top of our garbage can... my dad nearly killed him...

GF is back, so we will see what the news is...

I hope your pet pulls through!

this is horsesh!t... all tests came back negative... they cant (so they say) test for poisoning, and they cant administer anything to him as they dont know whats wrong with him... WTF!! you take our money, and say you dont know, then tell my GF to bring the cat back today, but make sure its before 5pm so they can put him down...

the GF brings the cat inside the house, opens up the cage, it takes him a few seconds, but he comes out, and goes to the water dish, and sticks his paw in it and starts playing in the water.... takes some little drinks, and lays his head on the edge of the bowl... i did see him last night at around 3:30 eating, like 2 peices of food, but he was eating.... and puked it all up after...

he doesnt look like hes in any pain, but im not a cat... he just looks like he has the flu or something, lethargic, not eating, pukes, sleeps all day, ect... but he can get up and walk, has enough energy to play in the water, ect... im not for suffering animals, but i sure as sh!t aint going to spend money to put one down, that they dont even know whats wrong with him... i have initially thought, that he may just have a hair ball stuck in there, but im not sure, im not a vet...

they did however say that it was a "possibility" that he was poisoned... but that they cant test for it... so you can test humans, for weed, coke, heroin, arsenic, lead, ect, but you cant tell if there is strycnine or the compounds in Antifreeze in a cat? seriously? that makes ZERO sense...

he walked back over to his bed, and layed down and is covered up with a blanket, so im going to see what happens for now... if he gets any worse, he will have to go to the 24 hour hospital, and that starts off at 500 bucks and goes from there... what a great way to start the 4th

I had to put my old white cat named meat down this year. one of the hardest things i have ever done. I hope your cat pulls through RH.

Not cool, making fun of someones ailing Pet is Classless as it gets.

so heres the deal... they sent him home with treatement for ear mites and fleas....... that we paid for...... that they wanted us to treat him with..... so he could be brought in 3 hours later to be put down......

uhhhhhh, what?

i called a hospital downtown, and told them what is going on, and they didnt know why a vet would do that either, or, why they would suggest putting down a cat that they didnt know what was wrong with....

the bad part, is 160 dollars off the bat for fluids, 110 dollars for Xray (which should have been done at the first vet) 2-300 more for another blood test panel, as this vet doesnt know what the other even tested for, if they even did it correctly, however much per night for them to keep him a few days, ect...

but, as we were talking, i suggested getting some A/D catfood, and mixing it with water to make a slurry and feed him with a syringe, and see if he will keep it down, they said i should try that... so i will, this isnt my first go around dealing with a sick or hurt animal, at one time, we had 7 German Shepards and 20+ puppies.... hopefully i can do this...

another thing, that i brought up, was the hairballs, she then tells me that it is completely normal for cats to puke up HBs (yeah, i knew that), i said no, i mean could one possibly have gotten stuck in there causing this? she then responds, oh yes, most deffinately that is a possibility...

i sure hope he is just sick with a cold or something...

You need to find another vet fast!!!!

Find one that can do blood work on location, so you don't waste time send blood samples out.

What showed up on the X-ray?? I would think a hairball would show up.

the vet did the blood work on location, Kidneys were ok, except one was running kinda high, blood sugar was kinda high, liver was fine..

they never performed an x ray, the other vet i called said that they would have done it...

im going to get some of the food and some Nutri Cal and give it to him, and see how he feels in the morning... im pretty sure my brother wont be mad if i dont come over tommorow for the 4th if i have a sick cat to tend to, he already said he didnt care... and i dont really care about fireworks enough to not take care of him anyways...

Sorry about the cat.

We put our "fixer-upper" kitty Ramona down when Ryan was 2. She was a Tabby Manx with worms, a rash, fleas and a cold. Spent a few hundred on her, great cat. Time came when she was basically acting like you say. Listless, but she wouldn't eat or drink, I think she was 12 or so. Came up quickly.

She would crawl up under the covers of a made bed, and just lay there. A big lump in the bed. I would wake up at 3am with her on my chest, purring away, with her nose almost touching mine. Loved to chase feathers attached to a fishing rod. I would get off work and she would stick her whole head in my work shoes, just purring for 20 minutes to an hour.

Her last night with us was spent in the bed next to me. We knew that next morning we had to take her in. Got off early, grabbed the cat and the boys, and off to the vet we went. The vet staff showed the boys some other animals while the vet and I talked. He said it was her time.

Still brings tears to my eyes 11 years later when I remember what Ryan said, "I didn't want to make her dead." From a 2 year old. The boys wanted to pet her all the way home, so they did. She is the left hand cross in our little pet cemetery on the property. Great cat.

The loss of a pet, regardless if it is a dog or a cat (even a goat), is hard. Make the right decision for you and the pet, whatever that will be.

Take care,

Andy

Well, I'm not a cat guy....but I'm not unsympathetic to your sick animal dillema, either. I have five dogs buried out the field and two running around. I love critters. Hope yours does fine soon. Sounds pretty good with it still eating and drinking.

That story you told me about your Dog is etched in my memory, you did do the right thing though. :>(

I know I would be a mess if anything happened to my pard.

High blood sugar in an animal that isn't able to hold down food sounds strange.

Do you know anyone who's a diabetic that could let you borrow a glucometer? That way you could check periodically to see if the elevated blood glucose remains.

High blood glucose always makes me feel listless and kinda sick to my stomach, too. Maybe your cat has diabetes?

Depends on who it is.

just got back from the 24 hour hospital... he is staying there for 3-5 days likely... they tested his urine for Ketones, and non show up, which i guess shows he doesnt have Advanced Diabetes, but more tests are needed... they still have not ruled out poisoning, Marsha, you are correct, they can and do test for Antifreeze and Stryctnine, just as i thought.... that other vet will be hearing from me, BIG TIME...

first, the test issue, fine, ok, whatever....

second, they told my GF his temperature needed to be at 108, UHHHHH, try 101, at 108 he would be nearly dead, if not dead... his temp just a little while ago was 99.7, so he is within 1.3 degrees... not so bad for now... he did pee on himself inside the crate tho, which could be attributed to him being molested, and having a probe stuck up his a$$ 2 times in one day, within a couple hours... plus a cathedor... when we left, he was clawing at the door, and meowing real loud, it kinda sounded like he felt better, but he didnt... so they are giving him an IV, wich they have to be real carefull with as he has a grade 1 of 6 heart murmer i guess, additional testing, Xrays, medications, ect ect ect...

we are now up to 1200 paid out so far today alone... and it could go way higher....

you really ought to quit that now.





PS: good luck

watchout your comments bro ^

you too idaho

rh pm for my phone number we will chat. these lowlifes that are trivializing a pets life are probs on the dahmer wavelength

Hook,

Good on ya for doing what it takes to get Kitters feelin better.
I know, it sucks. Both emotionally and financially.
But, you are a good 'cat dad'.

A couple years back my pup ate a rock. By the time we figured out what was up, and paid for emergency surgery, I was out over a month's wages. I don't make squat, and I was seriously stressed out. I spent over an hour walking around my garage making a list of things I could sell to help offset the cost. Wife gave me a hug and called me a good 'dog dad'.

Pets are family. You do what you gotta do to keep your family healthy.

Hope Kitters gets to feelin better soon.

RH............

Will you adopt me?

man, what a fvckin day i tell ya!!!

just got a call from the vet at 10:40, and figured, GREAAAATT... well, it wasnt that, yet... they ran Xrays, and they seem to think that he swallowed something, a white ring is showing up in the Xrays, i asked about hairballs, they dont show up on Xrays.. they are not a dense mass and wont show i guess... it also, is not metal, so jewelry is out of the question...

a few days before he got sick ,my GF picked up my backpack without looking, or even asking me,, and one of my boxes expoled all over the floor... hooks, swivels, lead, beads, ect.... but they seem to not be an issue, as he said it was roughly the size of a penny, and knew about fishing a bit....

since they cant diagnose problems from Xrays, and need to do surgery, he had said they will do another Xray tommorow, to see where the object is... if its still in the same spot, he will go to surgery.. 1000 dollars...


so yeah, im fvcked... officially... i will not let my cat die because of some "foreign object" and not an actual disease... so now, we are at 22-2500 and climbing...i understand they are just "cats" blah blah blah, but its not an illness, its an object... why kill him, for something thats treatable? this cat is smart as sh!t, and just cool to be around...

even surgerys arent a given, so we aint done yet...

An Aunty M Moment!

well, we got a call at 6:10am...

not bad news....

the IV has helped push the foreign object into his small intestine, and it is entering the colon on the way out the poop shute...most likely, surgery is not needed, and he may even be able to come home tonight, but we may just leave him there to make sure that it passes, as we already paid for it anyways... he is no longer laying face down in the bowl, he is up looking around and alert, and looks like he will be OK...

maybe the holliday wont be ruined afterall...

Happy 4th everyone...

Salmopuss is your typical bed wetting little libturd that still sucks his thumb. Pretty sure he was the little twerp that got bullied and his lunch money stolen. lol

RH......When that jewel comes out, you had better frame it!
You could even give a name......maybe "Girl Friend" or "Boat".....something that's a big drain on your wallet.

Good Luck Buddy....wishin' you well.

That's great news RH !

I wonder how many self-perceived turds DanS has burned up (I'm pretty sure one was me....if not yet.....then soon.)
FOAD is about as loving as it gets around these parts at times.
So, FOAD....all of you!!

GFY !!!!

Yeah! FOAD2u2, BuB!

sNoRk

Where's KK....he could bring us up to date on furniture, goats, nuts and dolts. Oh yeah, and the BigStick steal...... Laffin.

Don't put Kotex gramps in the same sentence as BS.

OK, yeah, you're right.

Back to the cat. Sorry for the thread hijack, RH. Just havin a little fun.

RH, we need an update on Kitters!

its ok Slab, he seems to be doing alright, still not eating, but hes locked in a cage not in his house after what hes been through, im not suprised for now.... he hasnt passed it yet, and it costs another 100 bucks if we dont pick him up before 9am... kinda rude considering we dropped him off at 5pm yesterday, and paid for 2 nights at 160 bucks, but whatever.... i just hope hes ok...

tonight was a good night, but ended up dangerous... i had bought some new mortars, and one blew up in the tube, like all of it at once, now shower, just a HUGE boom, and the bottom plate broke off and hit me in the throat... im good tho...

the Predators were once again off zee chain...







hope you guys had a good 4th, and didnt almost sever your juggular with PVC shrapnel...

thanks guys..

and yes, i tried to take better pics, but my batteries were dead, and i couldnt do what i needed to do with the ISO and such... my bad...

i thought about it... but honestly, right now, i dont care to be made fun of... if i get bored, ill throw a new roll of 110 in that 3+K dollar Hasselblad and have them processed... but, im tired right now, stressed, and my neck hurts, so it likely wont happen... wont be the last moon i see...

RH, get some rest and things will likely be better in the morning. I know sometimes it seems like life is just pissing on you. I'm trying to lighten it up a bit. I've been where you're at, as have a few of us around here.

I took the liberty of cropping the center of your first fireworks pic and added one line of color. Maybe there's something to what I said......??

he still hasnt passed it i guess, but is continuing to get better... i guess he ate last night too, so its all looking good... he is likely coming home this afternoon, even tho we have to pay another 100 bucks for like 3 hours worth of stay... he should be ok, but he has to pass it to be 100 percent...

nice photo work Slab lol...

its not a metal ring, they think its plastic, and i think i know exactly what it is...

we replaced a shower head about a week and a half ago, i think one of the small rubber O rings fell out somehwere and he ate it... it possibly could have fallen into the food dish or something, i dont know...

what was weird, is the day before he started acting sick, he came flyin into the office and jumped up in the window and was staring at me weirdly... then he bolted out, that night, he started acting sick like, and it got worse the next few days till we took him in...

for all i know, this could be my fault, but i cant be sure until he sh!ts it out...

that would be Your (you, yourself), Jake, not You're (you are)

RH.....prune juice.

he will be home in an hour or so... we were going to get a laxative or something, but the vet said it would be a bad idea, because of the severe dehydration, a laxative would liquify everything in his system and he would obviousl crap it all out, making the dehydration worse potentially... they are fairly confident that he will pass it within the next 24-48 hours...

he ate this morning ( a little), and was up moving around a bit, also, this cat wont just sh!t in a cage he is sleeping in, which could explain why he hasnt passed it yet... i figure, we can go outside when he gets home, and walk around with him, he likely will do his work... if he wants to just lay down, thats ok too... i still cant believe how expensive vets are... the Xrays are more expensive than hospital Xrays if i remember correctly... which makes no sense at all...

Stop at a nursery and buy a catnip plant, that should help him forget his troubles.

the "initial view" was 125 bucks, the "subsequent film" was an additional 65 x2 so 130 for a total of 255 bucks... i always had insurance, so i never had to pay for my Xrays, but you would be the person to know Hank...

it wasnt a typo Jake, you were trying to be a smart a$$ and [Bleeeeep!] yourself because you dont think before you run your pretty little mouth... give it a rest alright?

Hank, how has the price of silver affected the xray costs?

go back to walking to work Jake, ill ride on leather with the A/C on...

i never said that it would break the bank, i said that i didnt have the extra money, i dont have the extra money for this either, but it needs to be done...

again, that is all none of your business, but you continually want to put yourself into my life, and my things, if you want me to make you look like a complete fvcking idiot, keep running your purdy little mouth there son....

OIC.

Aboob's job is blowing old men for $$$$$$

He's loose allright. :>)

Z
I
N
G

hes home now... kinda a little wobbly, and weak, but what do you expect... he walked around the house smelling stuff, and went to his window and it getting some air, but he looks like he will be 100 in a couple days... it was another 400 bucks, so we are around 1600 ish for this little accident... oh well, hes my cat....

To potentially save you some bucks down the road:

Make damn sure all fishing line (especially braid), fly tying threads, twist ties, ribbons and scotch tape are ALWAYS picked up. Fawking cats love to eat that crap, and it doesn't come out so good. Wanna see some impressive vet bills, let the cats gut fill up with Power Pro and prepare for all hell to break loose (especially if it's your wife/gf's cat)

Twitch, didn't your Dog eat a few rocks once?

yeah i have a TON of crap all over my room, in the living room ect... gonna have to do some cleaning...

another thing Twitch, you are spot on with that... all of my cats go after my gear, i have pulled rods out, had them ready to go, go away for a second, only to find that the cat bit the line in half at the reel... our youngest cat (2) when he was younger, bit and broke the inserts out of 2 eyes on one of my rods, now i keep them all locked in a small closet in the hall, and litterally cant even take them out untill im about to go put them in the car... so i end up having to either tie everything up, and put them back for a few minutes, or tie up at the river (something i dont like doing, i like to be ready when i arrive)... its almost as bad as having toddlers run around the house...

RH, did you buy him a catnip plant?

nah, not yet, we have some dried, but this cat is weird with that stuff, all the other cats like it, but Kitters will piss on it lol... i think its his way of messing with the other ones not sure... if i can find a nursery that carries it, id grab one, but i do have some seeds i can plant, that will obviously take a while tho.... ill make some calls around...

actually its 6 cats, one bad [Bleeeeep!] dog, and a toddler that will beat the everlovin sh!t out of you that lives in a house full of fishing gear and fishes in Washington state more than you could ever dream of...

get your facts straight...

Some cats don't have the catnip gene, others get stoned.

Post a pic of your 130 pounder.

Aboob never got his GED or H.S diploma.

the dog isnt very photogenic, and doesnt want anything to do with this, but heres a pic i just took



he weighed in at 126 the last time he was at the vet..... over 6 years ago... he is still in the 120-130 range tho...

and this is the youngest cat, the one that likes to destroy your fishing rods, after fishing once, me and my brother came home, and my brother put his Loomis and Certified Pro against the wall, and that cat was on it in seconds, going straight for the eyes... gotta watch it with him...

and this is the bada$$ of the palace, he weighs in at a small 22-25 pounds, has never lost a fight since, well, never, and noone even messes with him anymore...

his name is Squirt, and was my dads and ours cat, but my dad really liked him...

He's a big Boy!

yeah hes a big bone head too... been a very good dog tho, he is now 14, and i know its just a matter of time... that one is gonna kill me.... but its life... he was attacked by 5 other dogs made it through that, ate the gorrila glue, made it through that, fights 27.3 pound Opossums, would probably screw a Coyote to death, dont know about a Raccoon, that may be his demise, but the Raccoons dont come in the back yard where he is, they will come in the front, so maybe they know something...

i have to keep him chained up in the yard, as we dont have a fence as of right now, and has broken 6 "aircraft grade" (bullsh!t, but still extremely strong) cables going after cats and yes, Opossums in the 6 years we have been here, and 2 large high grade hooks...

one time, i was outside when it happened, one of the strays was messing with him it looked like, the cables have been anywhere from 30ft to 50ft, that time, it was 50 i think, a real expensive one too, he got about 30 feet extra running room as there was a loop in the line, saw the cat, and bolted, POW, didnt even stop a stride, goes another 70 feet gaining on the cat, and the cat went under a hole in the neighbors house, and him being a bone head and laser targeting the cat wasnt paying attention to the side of the house, and POW slammed right into it... didnt phase him one bit, well, yeah right lol, but he played it off...

i dare someone to break into this house when im not home... you wont know where hes at, and when you do, its gonna be way too late....

You need to fix the fence and get him off the chain.

we never had a fence, i have to build one, not a problem, but after 1600 for a cat, its not happening tommorow, just hasnt been nessecary... i also cant just build a cheap one, he will get through it, he did at our old house with a 6 foot cedar fence that was 1x6 A grade cedar.... this dog deffinately "uses his head", but more for ramming purposes than intellectual purposes... hes not bothered by the cable.. we bring him in all the time (rainy, cold, at night ect), take him for walks and such, i still throw snowballs at him, and he bites them in his mouth lol... hes a good dog... has complete free reign of the yard as well... there is alot of little kids around here, and im not going to be one of those "people" that dont know what the hell they are doing...

he likely wouldnt, but im not taking a chance, i dont even let him around my 5 year old nephew, because things happen, and its not happening on my watch.... ive been attacked, and its not fun...

yeah, we both would kick the sh!t out of you...

im not angry, im happy, just merely stating facts...

RH...they make wireless collars now. No need even for a wire in/on the ground. Works on my two. A kennel is better than a chain as well. Can usually find one on ebay. Just a couple of thoughts is all.

http://www.petsafe.net/products/fencing-and-containment

im not putting him in a kennel, with the setup i have, he has total coverage of the back yard, in a 60ft raidus... i play with him outside, inside, when ever he wants to play "ball" or whatever... hes happy.. i have thought about the wireless and wired collar systems, but he would likely run until out of range, thats how he is...the cable is light as well (just under 1/4 inch probably)and it just stops him (usually lol) im not the type of person that puts huge chains on their pitbulls so it looks cool... its hard on their neck, and stupid... a 30 foot cable like i use, even the 50s, are around 4 pounds or so total weight...

if i end up getting a new dog, after he passes, i will go the collar route...

well, when you get around to it, you may want to consider the wired one....it's cheaper and you can shape it to your yard. Just a thought..
Any change with your cat?

Dogs are different animals when chained or leashed.

its not the chain, cable, whatever, its how you train your dog in the first place.. that "run" is fence parts for me, Tye would go under it... he is not viscous unless you pose a threat, or are a cat.... i dont have kids, and he wasnt trained to be around kids, so he stays away....

the older cats we have, actually sleep with him outside, its the strays, and he KNOWS the strays...

hes good, and perfectly taken care of, you can ask his big a$$ that and he will tell you the same

Maybe he's tasting them?

Classic.

You're not gonna' surprise a lot of people here with that remark FP.

cats on his way back to the vet...

this aint lookin good...

WTF? Prayers sent!

this one has now sent him back, saying to kill him in the morning... that it would be "painfull" for him to die at home...

they ran a "complimentary" CAT Scan, that cost 71 bucks, and have now changed their minds from the Xray saying he swallowed something, and it traveled all the waaaay through his instestines, and into his colon, to now, he has "suspected" Stomach Cancer....

why are people lying to me? what did i do? why am i being driven into the dirt further?

if we want to keep him alive, its extensive surgery, and chemo, chemo runs around 6 grand for the treatemnt, without surgery...

im going to call a REAL vet tommorow, that my brother has taken animals too, that CARES about the animals.... i just hope he can make it through the night....

Redhook, the last dog I had to put down I should have put down a week before I did, but I didn't want to feel like I hadn't done everything I could. But here's the deal. My dog wasn't feeling better, except for very brief periods, and it was expensive, emotionally draining, and expensive. It hurt to lose her. But looking back, I realize that I was wrong to keep her alive past her time.
Putting her down was painless for her and I held her as she died.

It's all your decision, and I respect your efforts and hope for the best for you and yours, but it may just be your cat's time to go to sleep and not wake up. Give it some thought. There are lots of critters out there that need someone to love them. Maybe your time/money would be better spent on one or more of them?

Solid advice Slab. . .. . . RH, sorry you are going through this. ....

i understand what your saying Slab, but i dont understand whats going on... how can they be "positive" that he has swallowed something, we pay a bunch of money for Xrays, while they watch that something travel through his sytem, then a couple days later, basically say you spent all that money, and its not what we said it was? but we will give you a "complimentary" CT scan, but you have to pay for it...

he has eaten a few bites of food here and there, but he hasnt crapped yet... that tells me that there is something blocking him, he has peed however... they said in the CT scan, that they could see water and such in his stomach, and it shouldnt be there, it should be moving... well, if you kink a hose, what happens? the water stops flowing, and it sits there....

last night before he went to the vet, something weird happened...i am only PART of this cats life, he is OUR pet... everyone was asking me what i thought, i said take him to the vet, then, 5 minutes later, we are back to what i thought we should do, and we ended up getting into a huge yelling match...i was sitting in my room, and my GF and mom were out in the living room, yelling... at one point, i said "the only other option is to fvcking kill him, is that what you want to do"? the cat walked from across the house, and laid infront of my door, staring at me, and meowed twice, as if he was to say "just hang on ill be ok", or, was he saying "dont argue, it will be ok", or, was he saying, "please just kill me"... im thinking it was more in the middle, but i dont know... it was just odd, and hes never done anything like that ever....

i just dont understandd..

why would it be one thing, that they were tracking through his system, that he still hasnt passed, to now, cancer, that is going to kill him in a week?

this is the actuall message from the bottom of the paper, and no, its not cut off, its how they wrote it...



first off, he never lost a pound anything, when he was brought in the first time, he was 10.25 pounds, when he was brought in last night, he was 10.9 pounds... how is that losing a pound? they cant give a deffinate anything, even after spending 1700+ dollars, WHY? it seems as if the vets are preying upon my blonde haired GF, i went the night he had to stay, she went last night... when i went, they really didnt want to talk to me, because i was telling them the exact things they were saying, as if they didnt want to me to get in the way of them getting some money... the doctors both said he should be OK, now, they are saying kill him... thats not very fvckin proffesional at ALL...

RH,

You say you're going to call a REAL vet tomorrow. Let me ask you, if the vets you've been taking the cat to aren't REAL vets, then why the heck did you take the cat there? I know you're the official Piscatard here, but every time you post, you just demonstrate more clearly that you are your own worst enemy. Have you ever thought about getting some help?

Sorry about your cat man. It's never fun when a pet's time is up.

My recommendation would be to cut your losses now and stop all of this. Put your cat down and end the needless suffering by both you, your family, and the cat.

It's not doing anyone any good.

Regardless of what has happened, it's kinda obvious that a simple FOD in the gut/colon of your cat would have passed by now. It appears to me that the Docs and the CT revealed a mass that's not going anywhere without expensive surgery and follow up chemo.

Pancreatic cancer is bad. Really bad. Hits fast and hard...which probably explains how and why this has come out of no where.

Take the cat in now and have him put down. It really is probably the best thing you can do for him now.

My cat of 12 years had to be put down because he got the kitty diabetes. I loved my cat to death (we was cool as all Hell) but no way was I going to give my cat hourly/daily insulin shots, monitor his glucose levels, take him in for exams every week, etc.

He was only going to suffer more in the future if I didn't act ASAP.

I had to take him to the vet to be put down while he was purring away in his cat carrier....happy as a clam. Got in one last hold, gave him a good scratching (purring away the whole time), said my goodbyes and let him go. Damn near killed me.

The point is, yeah it sucked. Big time. But, the cat wasn't going to suffer any more and was better off for it.

Less than a year later we adopted a new kitty. Another cool cat (not as cool, though). She likes us so much now that she even brought us a live rat to play with the other night!

No one likes losing a loved pet, but put the cat down. Time to end this.

RIP, Kitters!

getting help for what Salmo? for the fact that you misread what i say? thats not my problem, thats your problem...

REAL, as in not some huge corporation such as the Sumner Animal Hospital, that charges more than any other vet ive seen, they should be the best, the stupid place has 2 huge buildings in its complex, and they do everything there, or so they say...

the vet we may take him to, is the one that my brothers uses, he works out of his home, and helps people without alot of money as well... he has saved multiple animals for my brothers wifes family, and did work on my brothers cat as well... everything from cats, to Horses.... there is a big difference between doing it for the ANIMALS, and doing it for the MONEY, large companies are large for a reason...

people think they can just give others the run around, and get over on people and that its OK, that nothing will happen... if its truely cancer, i will find out, this other vet isnt afraid to perform surgeries to find out the TRUE answer... he also nurses the pets back himself... if its cancer, then so be it, if its NOT cancer, the vet that did the work better run, and fast, i will contact the BBB, the Attorney General, i will post complaints about them online, with full pictures of transcripts, what they said they did, what they did do, what they said it was, and what they said it is now, after taking our money.... if legal action is needed, thats not a problem either, we wont even need to pay for the lawyer....

its easier said than done Mike... i personally have never had to do anything like this before, my dad, has, but i was too young to even get what was going on...

what if it really is just something in there stuck? i will have to live with my desicion the rest of my life, wondering what if surgery was performed? what if?

this house is tight knit, animals and all... from what has been happening, its going to destroy it... people might say its "jsut a damn cat", ah hell, i dont even know anymore....

The ultrasound imaging has ruled out the FOD idea. It's a cancerous mass, if one were to interpret and believe what was written by the Docs above.

Given where the mass is and how the cat is reacting, the early best prognosis of fatal pancreatic cancer is probably very correct.

I believe this to be a losing battle for everyone involved. Do what is best for the cat and his current well being.

Sometimes it's better to let go then try to hang on, especially when the outcome will ultimately be the same.

If you think the cat swallowed something, isn't there some type of laxative your vet can give the cat to help it pass?
Since it isn't pooping, I'd trying something like that as a last resort. If that doesn't work, I'd suggest following Slab and Parkers advise.
Been there with my golden retiever, the last black lab I gave my dad before he passed away and it looks like the end of my 14 year old cat's run is coming very soon.
Never easy but it is the right thing to do for the animal.

I'm not a real vet, but I can play on on PP......

(I do have a Doctorate of Divinity and am a Reverend...so that's pretty close)

I believe the cat is/was having dehydration issues. Forcing the cat to expel everything in it's bowels will only make the dehydration issue worse.

Not too sure the Rev. Dr. Parker would recommend that.....

It must be that Salmo g. has no reading comprehension abilities.

It couldn't be that you're a f'n goat sometimes.

Medicine is not an exact science, thats why it is called "practicing medicine". Things can appear on x-rays one day and then be gone the next or vice versa. Pretty sure the Vet's degree and license prove they are real vets vice someone who sits on the internet all day with goggle.

correct Mike (stick with Parker. Mike is not my legal first name so please do not use it as I hate it), if you give laxatives to them it will liquify everything in there, shoot right out, and dehydrate them even more, same as with being sick with the flu, and having diarehha, you get dehydrated, very very quickly... they gave us some "lubrication" type medicine that was supposed to help... hasnt done anything...

my GF just called as i got out of the shower, and asked how he was doing, i told her we likely will have to put him down.... dead silence...she is kinda busy the rest of the day with school, so, im going to atleast talk to the vet of my brothers here shortly, tell him the precise account of what has happened, and what is going on... and see what he has to say about it... if it ends up we need to put him down, i will take Kitters to him, he is cheaper (it doesnt really matter), but the main thing, hes out in the sticks out in Graham, in a house, not some big complex with hospital like insides... if i have to do this, i want him to be comfortable, and hes comfortable outside in the woods, not in a concrete jungle...

Kitters is only 7-8 years old... cancer doesnt know age tho, so if its the case, then so be it....having 3 other animals at 16,15 and 14, makes this that much harder, as its only a matter of time....

this is gonna suck..

Hell, I'm no vet either. How about a laxative and a fluid IV combo RDP?

i have read reviews on this vet, and a TON of them, are about being ripped off, some about mis diagnosis, paying for things that werent nessecary, and or werent even done, ect...

so, i called another one, that had only GOOD reviews to say about it, and its just down the street...

it will be 45 dollars for the exam, all paperwork and Xray images from the other vet will be obtained, and they will go over them, this is now ANOTHER vet, that has said the same thing "it doesnt make sense"...

the first vet was affiliated with the one that took all the money, they reffered us to them...

why sell flea and tick medication to a person, then tell them to bring the cat in 3 hours later to be put down? doesnt make sense

how do you call me at 10pm at night, say that you have spotted a foreign object that is ring like, that is in his stomach, and he needs surgery to remove it, that it will be 1000 dollars, and i say contact me in the morning, and we will go from there, then calling 8 hours later saying that the object is now in his small intestines, an you are tracking it as its going into the colon and that he will be OK, while saying he DOESNT have cancer during the previous conversation, to the next visit, saying that he "possibly" has cancer and that thousands more are needed? ZERO SENSE..

complimentary means FREE, not 71 dollars.. ZERO SENSE

this other vet just needs all medical records, and has good reviews, so i will give them the last opinion... all the records and Xrays can be faxed, and we can go from there...

he was already tested for cancer, the test came back negative, a CT scan would have shown a Mass, it would have been SEEN, not "suspected"...

if this vet says to put him down, that will be the final... IF this vet successfully removes a foreign object, and the cat gets better, i will sue the ever loving sh!t out of SVH... every single time i talk to a smaller vet, and tell them whats going on, each and every person is dumbfounded by what has been going on... it makes ZERO sense...

its either 100% (not "possibly" or "suspected") that he has cancer, that he tested negative for, or he has a foreign object, that they found on an Xray, and tracked through his system... at CT scan would have showed a mass, not a suspected mass, there is no possible in that... an Xray will show a dense object, such as bone, plastic, metal, ect, which it did, and they supposedly tracked it...

with all the paper work being sent over, we will have a chance to see it for ourselves, they havent shown us anything, just said it over the phone...

so i will see what these people have to say, this will be the end of this...

also, my GF said that he had cat litter on him this morning, this other vet and i at the same damn time, said "hes trying to go to the bathroom"... if he cant, there is a blockage obviously.... and if i was taken for a ride by SVH, they took the wrong person, and will pay....

Is it not possible that the CT showed a mass that the Vet suspected could be cancer. The cat test negative for cancer via some blood test but still has the mass? Maybe the mass is non-cancerous but still life threatening (like by causing an obstruction) or is it possible to not rule out the cancer until you have an actual bioposy of the mass? I am no vet but have worked in the medical field for 22 years and know that with humans not all cancers are DX with a blood test, alot of them you have to actually do a bioposy of the tissue to make a 100% DX.

I try to read reviews BEFORE I go somewhere for products and/or services.

Hope this helps.............

i dont know GV, im not a vet either, but have plenty of my fathers and grandfathers anatomy and other books about animals, mainly dogs, and cats... im not completely uninformed...

my GF is in school for her nursing degree, and last quarter had to dissect, of all things, cats for study... she isnt uninformed either.... she also knows how to read Xrays and CT scans somewhat, they dont know any of this..

she got to see the CT scan last night, and they said in his stomach, there was water, and "little stars"... well what the hell does dry catfood look like? little stars... if he isnt crapping, it wouldnt go through, it would stay in his stomach, or he would puke it out eventually... which he has on occasion....

my problem, is the tests came back negative, and they found a foreign object, and they tracked it all the way into his colon, which still hasnt come out... ok, so where the hell is it then? they said they were watching it, and it was 100% a foreign object, and that he was going to be OK....

betcha if i walked down there with 10 grand cash they would fix him up right quick, and he would live another 8+ years....

none of what they have said makes sense, and 2 other vets not affiliated with them, said the exact same thing... if this vet says its cancer, which should be able to be read off the bat, or takes a CT scan, and finds a mass, we will go from there, i just dont see how its 100% one thing, and not cancer, to oh, its cancer, well, were the fvck is the object you were tracking then? that we paid how much in Xrays to have you watch? that you said will come out?

this same type of crap happened with my father... he went into the hospital having a heart attack, they talked, blah blah blah, then said we should start thinking about having him transported to the UW heart place, to have an immeadiate heart transplant, there is NO THINKING about something like that, so i asked, will he be airlifted? no, he will go by ambulance, if i remember right, they had him lined up to go, and everything was ready....

they didnt send him....

and now hes dead....

I'm sorry about your father. He obviously meant the world to you. That said, it is odd how often you bring him up. Perhaps channeling some of that free-flowing $ into a councelor would be a good investment?

there isnt any free flowing money AP, infact, im about toast... but its summer, so more can be made, its just money right?


i went to counseling, on my own desicion, it did nothing for me... that cost me a ton too, but, its just money...

my counseling is fishing, and this is taking its toll on being able to do that as well...

3 more weeks, and the river near me opens up, and im only 10 minutes or so away... so i will be able to "get away" from it all... or atleast try to...

and yes, he did mean the world to me, he was my dad, my boss, and most of all, my friend....

RH

There is nothing tougher than putting down a loved pet. All I can say is do what you honestly feel is best for the cat. My vet once said that when my old dog would not eat and did not seem happy to see people it was time. It a VERY hard decision but I'm sure you will know what's right. This really sucks. So sorry guy.

It's been 5 years and 2 kids for the couple that I hitched. . .. . time will tell. .. .

Hank, you need to screen your prospects better. ..

wierd...

he just got up off his bead, walked to the litter box, got in, and pissed... then walked back out, and is chillin on the floor (its kinda hot in the house, all the cats are sprawled out)....

does a sick cat with cancer get up and use the litter box?

we cant get him into the new vet tonight, he will go tommorow after my GF gets back from morning class...

that was also the first time anyone has seen him use the litter box in a week...

still not going to be all happy, as it still isnt known whats going on, but its a positive... just hope it keeps improving...

Maybe they were considering dropping a building/barn on you, Stam.

I was ordained from the Universal Life Church in 1999.

I received my Doctorate of Divinity from the Universal Life Church in 2003. At the time, the Church was willing to honor me with the degree after a healthy "donation" to the Church. Hey, $25 goes a long way! I see today where the minimum donation for such a degree has risen to $32.

The best part is that I got my Doctorate 2 weeks before my wife earned her PhD at the U of W....and it only cost me $25 and a lifetime of grief from Mrs. Dr. Parker.

I have performed four wedding ceremonies, including one for Stam's daughter.

All of the couples have kids now and are still happily married.





They do if they gotta take a leak!

What I've learned from this thread is that I have poor reading comprehension and wouldn't know a piscatard if I read its posts.

all this; stay safe op and do the right thing. do your due diligence but when its time to go for the pet its time to go, don't let it suffer.

interesting...

so he comes into my room while im messin around on the BOX, and goes straight for the window, making meow noises and such... my windo is cracked 3-4 inches to let some air in, yet not let any pets out.. he starts swingin his arm outside the crack, but we decided he shouldnt just go out... he slept there for about 20 minutes, then i said fvck it, and open the window... my window is right above my garden, which is fenced in, he cant jump out.. within 15 seconds of me opening the window, he was hanging out and jumped out, then layed down, kept paying attention to him for a couple minutes, went to the bathroom, and hes not in view... go outside, hes by the door of the garden...

my GF, had bought a kiddie pool for the young cat we have, as he likes water for some reason, even takes showers with her... it was left out last night, and sure as sh!t, Kitters goes over to it, and lays with his front 2 paws over the edge, alert, still lethargic, but different...

i go back in, do a couple things, and come back out, hes not there, i ask where he is, and suprisingly im told he is in the other garden area "digging", he does that before hes about to take a dump (this is a flower bed)... he doesnt, a dickweed old dude that lives down the road comes through with his stupid poodle or whatever it is, and lets him chase my god damn cats around AGAIN.... hes like 900 years old, so i havent knocked him out... YET...

then, my idiot neighbor comes out to "help"... yeah, the one that talks to light switches, the one that had the PC sherriffs come over and remove a child mollester that they were letting stay there, the person thats dog has the mange, and during the removal, Animal Control came over and ordered her to take the dog to a vet, or be arrested.. yeah, i want your opinion.. get the FVCK out of my YARD..... he walks around a bunch, keeps being brought back to the yard, then comes in, and goes into the litter box,

we are being interupted for Breaking News:

we brought him back in, like 7 minutes ago, i went to go piss, and hes lying in the bathroom on the floor, meowing again..

when i flush, hes up, walking to my door before i am, so i let him in...he goes directly for the window, and lays down on his side again, with his arms out the window kinda playing.. i tell my GF he wants out again, as she is out front, so i say im letting him out in the garden...

i come in open the window, 5 seconds and hes up, and begins to jump out the window, and then i see it...

1 small turd hangin off his fur, and another one in the poop shute... HES TRYING... my GF deals with all this type stuff, as she likes it, for some odd reason, and removed what was there...

he went outside twice today, walked around the yard, tried to sh!t twice, potentially pushing some out, jumped out a window, twice... used the litter box, ect...

this is deffinate improvement so far... although hes still sick and dehydrated, things are now starting to happen..

now i will see how he is in the morning to see if a vet trip is even nessecary, i can give him fluids myself, we have been the last week, its not a big deal... SVH, better watch out if this cat makes it...

See if he will eat some tuna...the kind packed in oil. It could help him go.

So what happened with the cat?

so we get a call from the vet last night... "wondering" how my cat was doing... i got a little irritated, questioned some things, that they couldnt give me information to..

blah blah fvckin blah

they said they would give him a "complimentary" antacid and fluids... so i said OK, brought him in, and the cat kinda looked worse than when he went in after whatever they did, my GF wasnt even allowed in the room...

earlier today, we took him to the other vet... they said it was rather odd that they other vet was not talking to us about the blood tests, not explaining it ect... they gave him and IV, and it was 200 total, at this point, i dont give a sh!t about money anymore...

they sent my GF home, with an IV, for her to do, some Amoxicillin, some stuff for his stomach, and he kinda was walkin around a little...

my girlfriend about an hour and a half ago, put him in his box so he could get some rest...

about 10 minutes ago, i said we should probably give him the medicine, and maybe see if he will eat....

i go to his box, and hes laying there, and i look at his side.... no movement... he was laying like he normally did with his face covered... i reach down and grab him, and pull him up, his face was covered in puke, and he is dead... 5 minutes before we checked him, i was telling my GF we should give him his medicine, that was right after he lifted his head up on the side of the box and looked at me and kinda meowed....

hes fvckin gone... and this just screws everything up...

Nothing to say, RH. Sorry to hear.

"and this just screws everything up..."

don't look at it that way.
you did all you could.
sometimes, things just work like they work.
let it go now, get a new kitten if that helps.
you will out-live many dogs & cats.

R.I.P.


Rainbow Bridge

Just this side of heaven is a place called Rainbow Bridge.

When an animal dies that has been especially close to someone here, that pet goes to Rainbow Bridge.
There are meadows and hills for all of our special friends so they can run and play together.
There is plenty of food, water and sunshine, and our friends are warm and comfortable.

All the animals who had been ill and old are restored to health and vigor; those who were hurt or maimed are made whole and strong again, just as we remember them in our dreams of days and times gone by.
The animals are happy and content, except for one small thing; they each miss someone very special to them, who had to be left behind.

They all run and play together, but the day comes when one suddenly stops and looks into the distance. His bright eyes are intent; His eager body quivers. Suddenly he begins to run from the group, flying over the green grass, his legs carrying him faster and faster.

You have been spotted, and when you and your special friend finally meet, you cling together in joyous reunion, never to be parted again. The happy kisses rain upon your face; your hands again caress the beloved head, and you look once more into the trusting eyes of your pet, so long gone from your life but never absent from your heart.

Then you cross Rainbow Bridge together....

^ ^
wizard

was just going to post that

RIP kitters

Sorry about the kitty friend.

R.I.P Kitters.

Sorry for your loss, Redhook.

Sorry for your loss RH.

just got back from burying him.. my sister in laws pops who ive know forever, let me bury him on his property in Graham, where they have buried their pets as well... nice, woods, peacefull...

i just dont get it.. i know he was sick, but just like that?

we were hand feeding him, and he was drinking water on his own... he got home from the vet at around 3:45, appointment was at 2:15... they said he could pull through this, animals are pretty resiliant, and i knew that, and thought, maybe...

he died around 6...

the other 5 cats are all weirded out... they know something is up... they have all along...

so we go to Gregs house, and we are talking for a minute...he has had to put animals down as well, alot more than me... out comes this little what looks like an Irish Setter, but all black pup... i think its a mutt lab setter mix, not sure, and its rubbin up against me like pups do, then goes to my girlfriend ect, then their little puggy thing comes out too, same deal.... we go and bury him, and come back, and are talking again... both dogs come plant it at my feet, and sit there... no biggy, i pet em and they just sit...

go put the stuff back in the car, and they are planted at my GFs feet while shes sitting in a chair...

me and him were kinda talkin about that, and how our cat looked at me and meowed like 5 minutes before , im still like WTF, HOW does that happen?

so we are still talkin for a minute and his Mustang/Quarter Horse mix comes up and nudges my shoulder... at first it freaked me out kinda, nothing like having a horse head up nearly 7 feet tall standing in front of you... kept nudgin me, and stayed with me untill i said we had to go home because Katie had homework due by midnight..

pets are wierd creatures

it was rather interesting, and comforting in a way...

ive had alot of animals in my life, ive lost alot too, but they werent "mine" like now... the pets in the past, yes i was upset, yes i cried, but it was different...

this one... yeah.....

he wasnt doing so good last night after he got home, and i just prayed that he would make it to get to the new vet... they even have him scheduled for a 4pm appointment tommorow for a glucose test....

anyways, my big a$$ Rott-Pitt is older as well.. and i always joked a couple years ago, how if he goes, im getting a Shepard pup just like my dad always had...

that aint happening, i dont know if i can deal with whatss going to happen with the 2 cats of my dads, and him... matter of fact, my big azz cat Squirt (my dads) is laying next to me right now....

Kitters was a different cat.. odd to say the least, he was 13 pounds with lead boots on, yet fought with my 22-25 pound cat with the best of em, actually, better.... but they would both stop, and go back to normal... they actually hadnt fought in a couple years, and Squirt was even laying next to him today...

Kitters was left here by the owners that left, as they didnt care about him obviously, and about 2 years after we moved here, they came by to see if he was here... i didnt care to talk to them, my Gf did tho... they had named him "Cotton", but for us, he came to Kitters..

when we moved here, my truck was running... when i would come home, he would lay up on the top of my wide azz tires in the fender well sucking in the heat.. after a couple weeks, we just brought him in, and he became "ours".. that was almost 6 years ago....

we used to let him out the front door... and this fvcker would sometimes seirously piss me off, i leave my window open for air, he would get let out, run to the window, get into my bed, and use 1 of his nails to lift the top of my eyelid while i was sleeping, with his face all close, to say "Hey Bitch, im hungry, get up!!" as he liked his wet food...

he wouold knead on you, and lay on you too....

this is not good for me, my GF isnt doing well, has a ton of homework, a test tommorow, and theres really nothing i can do about it.... she lost her mom 9 years ago, shes not new to this, and her similarites are why we are basically a perfect match from the first day i met her.... to know that you cant do anything to "make it better", makes it that much worse....

this sh!t sucks...

Sorry for your loss. . .. .
As for the other animals behavior, they just know, not sure how, they just do. . ..

"There is no joy without hardship. If not for death, would we appreciate life? If not for hate, would we know the ultimate goal is love? At these moments you can either hold on to negativity and look for blame, or you can choose to heal and keep on loving."

"You have to temper the iron. Every hardship is an opportunity that you are given, an opportunity to grow. To grow is the sole purpose of existence on this planet Earth. You will not grow if you sit in a beautiful flower garden, but you will grow if you are sick, if you are in pain, if you experience losses, and if you do not put your head in the sand, but take the pain as a gift to you with a very, very specific purpose."


"Learn to get in touch with the silence within yourself and know that everything in this life has a purpose, there are no mistakes, no coincidences, all events are blessings given to us to learn from."

Elisabeth Kubler-Ross




If our time is short, it is our obligation to make the most of it and if there is a lesson in this occurence, however painful or challenging, I believe it isn't something we necessarily even have to understand but accept and appreciate as a gift. Maybe this prepares you for a new challenge or maybe it isn't even necessarily about you.


Maybe that all sounds like BS but, for whatever reason, this is something that is consistently pounded into me for whatever reason. Like the movie Groundhog Day, I am on this repeating loop of challenges in respect to loss.



Long story short; I hear your pain. What is ironic to me is the pain of loss is a tribute to the memory of love and holding on to that pain becomes comforting in a way; you are unable to forget and that is what you cling to over time.


Again, maybe too much to hear, too soon, or overboard, not sure.


Good luck.

Sorry, RH. At least you know that you did more than most people would do. You guys provided a wonderful life for the cat during the time you had him so try to take consolation in that.

sorry for your loss
many atrocities have been made on the animal
in our locality there is no rule regulation for animals
you can easily capture animal and make them any recepie you want.
but it is part of life cycle also

I like meat. and cake.

I thought I heard someone say "cake".