Check

 

Defiance Boats!

LURECHARGE!

THE PP OUTDOOR FORUMS

Kast Gear!

Power Pro Shimano Reels G Loomis Rods

  Willie boats! Puffballs!

 

Three Rivers Marine

 

 
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#770014 - 07/03/12 12:13 PM A Story About Guns
grizz1 Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 473
THE BIGGEST SCANDAL IN U.S. HISTORY
June 27, 2012

By: Ann Coulter




Forget executive privilege, contempt of Congress, "fast and furious," how many documents the government has produced and who said what to whom on which date.

The Obama administration has almost certainly engaged in the most shockingly vile corruption scandal in the history of the country, not counting the results of Season Eight on "American Idol."

Administration officials intentionally put guns into the hands of Mexican drug cartels, so that when the guns taken from Mexican crime scenes turned out to be American guns, Democrats would have a reason to crack down on gun sellers in the United States.

Democrats will never stop trying to take our guns away. They see something more lethal than a salad shooter and wet themselves.

But since their party was thrown out of Congress for the first time in nearly half a century as a result of passing the 1994 "assault weapons ban," even liberals know they were going to need a really good argument to pass any limitation on guns ever again.

So it's curious that Democrats all started telling the same lie about guns as soon as Obama became president. In March 2009, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton announced to reporters on a trip to Mexico: "Since we know that the vast majority, 90 percent of that weaponry (used by Mexican drug cartels), comes from our country, we are going to try to stop it from getting there in the first place."

As she sentimentally elaborated on Fox News' Greta Van Susteren show: "The guns sold in the United States, which are illegal in Mexico, get smuggled and shipped across our border and arm these terrible drug-dealing criminals so that they can outgun these poor police officers along the border and elsewhere in Mexico."

Suddenly that 90 percent statistic was everywhere. It was like the statistic on women beaten by their husbands on Super Bowl Sunday.

CBS' Bob Schieffer asked Obama on "Face the Nation": "It's my understanding that 90 percent of the guns that they're getting down in Mexico are coming from the United States. We don't seem to be doing a very good job of cutting off the gun flow. Do you need any kind of legislative help on that front? Have you, for example, thought about asking Congress to reinstate the ban on assault weapons?"


At a Senate hearing, Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., said: "It is unacceptable to have 90 percent of the guns that are picked up in Mexico and used to shoot judges, police officers and mayors ... come from the United States."

And then, thanks to Fox News -- the first network to report it -- we found out the 90 percent figure was complete bunkum. It was a fabrication told by William Hoover, of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATF), and then spread like wildfire by Democrats and the media.

Mexican law enforcement authorities send only a fraction of the guns they recover from criminals back to the U.S. for tracing. Which guns do they send? The guns that have U.S. serial numbers on them. It would be like asking a library to produce all their Mark Twain books and then concluding that 90 percent of the books in that library are by Mark Twain.

You begin to see why the left hates Fox News so much.

Obama backed away from the preposterous 90 percent claim. His National Security Council spokesman explained to Fox News that by "recovered," they meant "guns traceable to the United States." So, in other words, Democrats were frantically citing the amazing fact that almost all the guns traceable to the U.S. were ... traceable to the U.S.

Attorney General Eric Holder told reporters that even if the percentage is inaccurate, the "vast majority" of guns seized in crimes in Mexico come from the United States. (And he should know, because it turns out he was sending them there!)

This was absurd. Most of the guns used by drug cartels are automatic weapons -- not to mention shoulder-fired rockets -- that can't be sold to most Americans. They are acquired from places like Russia, China and Guatemala.

Right about the time the 90 percent lie was unraveling, the Obama administration decided to directly hand thousands of American guns over to Mexican criminals. Apart from the fact that tracking thousands of guns into Mexico is not feasible or rational, the dumped guns didn't have GPS tracing devices on them, anyway. There is no conceivable law enforcement objective to such a program.

This is what we know:

(1) Liberals thought it would be a great argument for gun control if American guns were ending up in the hands of Mexican criminals;

(2) They wanted that to be true so badly, Democrats lied about it;

(3) After they were busted on their lie, the Obama administration began dumping thousands of guns in the hands of Mexican criminals.

We also know that hundreds of people were murdered with these U.S.-government-supplied guns, including at least one American, U.S. Border Patrol agent Brian Terry.

But let's look on the bright side. The BATF was originally going to ship warheads to Iran until realizing the explosions might disable the tracking devices.

(Contrary to more Democrat lies, there was no program to dump thousands of guns in Mexico under George W. Bush. The Bush administration did have a program that put GPS trackers on about 100 guns in order to actually trace them. That operation was ended almost as soon as it began because of the lack of cooperation from Mexican officials. You may as well say Holder's program was "started" by the first cop who ever put tracer dye on contraband.)

No one has explained what putting 2,500 untraceable guns in the hands of Mexican drug dealers was supposed to accomplish.

But you know what that might have accomplished? It would make the Democrats' lie retroactively true -- allowing them to push for the same gun restrictions they were planning when they first concocted it. A majority of guns recovered from Mexican criminals would, at last, be American guns, because Eric Holder had put them there.

Unfortunately for the Democrats, some brave whistleblower inside the government leaked details of this monstrous scheme. As soon as Congress and the public demanded answers, Holder clammed up. He just says "oops" -- and accuses Republicans of racism

Top
#770023 - 07/03/12 12:34 PM Re: A Story About Guns [Re: ]
grizz1 Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 473
Todd has a very open mind and is an intelligent guy so I'm sure he'll read it first then comment rationally.

Top
#770029 - 07/03/12 12:46 PM Re: A Story About Guns [Re: ]
Todd Offline
Dick Nipples

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 28170
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
Ann is already known to be crazy and a crackpot...but she really outdid herself this time.

Fish on...

Todd
_________________________


Team Flying Super Ditch Pickle


Top
#770030 - 07/03/12 12:50 PM Re: A Story About Guns [Re: ]
Bigskyx Offline
Parr

Registered: 01/29/12
Posts: 42
Ann Coulter? Really??

Try this one. A long read but paints a different picture.

http://features.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2012/06/27/fast-and-furious-truth/
_________________________
Give a man a fish, he'll eat it and fall asleep.
Teach a man to fish and he'll endanger an entire species

Top
#770036 - 07/03/12 01:08 PM Re: A Story About Guns [Re: Bigskyx]
Dogfish Offline
Poodle Smolt

Registered: 05/03/01
Posts: 10979
Loc: McCleary, WA
Actually, the guns sent over by the Bush administration had RFID chips in them, not GPS trackers. They discontinued the program after they realized that the RFID technology didn't work as well in the real world as it did in testing.

I'd rather not see this issue done held up as a partisan issue. People were who ordered this to take place, not political parties, and to paint the whole democratic party with a broad brush is insane. People got killed (including a BP agent), people should lose their jobs, and people should not get in the way of the investigation through executive privilege.
_________________________
"Give me the anger, fish! Give me the anger!"

They call me POODLE SMOLT!

The Discover Pass is brought to you by your friends at the CCA.

Top
#770040 - 07/03/12 01:15 PM Re: A Story About Guns [Re: ]
Bigskyx Offline
Parr

Registered: 01/29/12
Posts: 42
"Quite simply, there's a fundamental misconception at the heart of the Fast and Furious scandal. Nobody disputes that suspected straw purchasers under surveillance by the ATF repeatedly bought guns that eventually fell into criminal hands. Issa and others charge that the ATF intentionally allowed guns to walk as an operational tactic. But five law-enforcement agents directly involved in Fast and Furious tell Fortune that the ATF had no such tactic. They insist they never purposefully allowed guns to be illegally trafficked. Just the opposite: They say they seized weapons whenever they could but were hamstrung by prosecutors and weak laws, which stymied them at every turn."
_________________________
Give a man a fish, he'll eat it and fall asleep.
Teach a man to fish and he'll endanger an entire species

Top
#770042 - 07/03/12 01:17 PM Re: A Story About Guns [Re: Dogfish]
grizz1 Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 473
Many versions of the "truth" are out there. Not sure you could walk in to any gun store in Arizona and walk out with as many AK-47s as you could afford to pay for with no questions asked but as long as you have the liberal version and the conservative version both claiming to be the true version we won't know I guess.

Top
#770055 - 07/03/12 01:50 PM Re: A Story About Guns [Re: grizz1]
Bigskyx Offline
Parr

Registered: 01/29/12
Posts: 42
Ann coulter is a whacko! She offers nothing to back up her claims and is well known for peddling vitriolic misinformation. Fortune magazine did a 6 month study to form this article ( did you read it) that is full of quotes & documented information. No doubt "facts" & information can be scewed to fit an opinion, but this is apples & oranges.
_________________________
Give a man a fish, he'll eat it and fall asleep.
Teach a man to fish and he'll endanger an entire species

Top
#770061 - 07/03/12 01:56 PM Re: A Story About Guns [Re: Bigskyx]
grizz1 Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 473
The CNN version is enjoying alot of play in liberal circles especially Media Matters etc.... Ann Coulter has her opinion piece as does the NRA. Perhaps the "facts" will come out without the spin one of these days. Funny how it goes on and on regardless of the "facts" being so incredibly indisputable to each side.

Top
#770071 - 07/03/12 02:33 PM Re: A Story About Guns [Re: grizz1]
Dogfish Offline
Poodle Smolt

Registered: 05/03/01
Posts: 10979
Loc: McCleary, WA
I'm thinking the truth lies somewhere in the middle, as it usally does.
_________________________
"Give me the anger, fish! Give me the anger!"

They call me POODLE SMOLT!

The Discover Pass is brought to you by your friends at the CCA.

Top
#770106 - 07/03/12 04:42 PM Re: A Story About Guns [Re: grizz1]
IdahoSH Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 08/22/11
Posts: 251
Loc: On the Rogue
Ann may have overstated the title slightly when she used the term 'biggest', but the details themselves support the message that democrats are always trying to take our guns away. Although, a few from the left side of the isle did agree to hold Holder in contempt of congress.

Big scandals and democraps go hand in hand. Nothing new under the sun. For a quick refreshment of history let's remember some of the most slimy of characters with the 'D' behind their name.

Let's go back a ways and take a look at what I am talking about as a point of reference.

Going way back, there was that infamous snake-in-the-grass Franklin D. Roosevelt.
FDR during his long 12-year tenure in office in the 1930’s, tried to ram his socialist programs down our throats. FDR had many of his bullshitt programs shot down by the Supreme Court. Because of these rulings against his socialist programs, FDR was feeling thwarted by the Supreme Court. Therefore, on March 9, 1937, he announced his intention via radio to the entire nation that he was going to “stack” the Supreme Court. This was called “the court packing plan”. The Supreme court originally had 6 justices, but then, he doubled its size by adding several of his own “cronies” who would uphold and defend his socialist programs, including Social Security and the Victory Tax. He also proposed to replace all the justices over 70, which included 5 of the 6 justices then in office.

Then there was another now little known incident called Viet Nam and the crooked-as-a-dogs-hind-leg Lydon B. Johnson.

Lyndon Johnson who was financed by Brown & Root since the 1940s, and into the Vice Presidential position, was rewarded after Kennedy’s assassination with lucrative contracts for escalating the Vietnam War. Johnson used the Gulf of Tonkin incident in order to justify the sending of ground troops into Vietnam. He made millions when he did that.

We all know how 'Nam turned out.

That brings us to the famous liar we know as William Jefferson Clinton.
The same one who was brought up on impeachment charges for perjury and obstruction of justice.
Remember that televisesed finger wagging? "I did not have sexual relations with that woman", but then a little blue dress (with stains on it) showed up. Oops!

I still remember the look on Bill's face when that piece of evidence showed up. He looked like the red-headed step-child who had just got slapped away from the supper table for fartin'.
Well, overall, ole Slick didn't do too much harm. Newt kept that LWWJ in check. I wonder if ol' Slick ever figured out what the meaning of 'is' is?

Now enter a liar that is far more habitual in the employment of pure bullshitt spreading than even the ol' Slick and who exemplifies the idiom "if his mouth is moving, he's lying", Hussein Obama Barark.
Do we know for certain that he knew about Fast & Furious? Not yet at this time.
Do we think he or his faithful minions would authorize such a program with the intent to further assault the Second Amendment? Servile followers have done that many times in the past.

Lying and corruption seems to follow where ever a democrap walks.

Ann, bless her little bombastic heart, sure knows how to 'light-up' liberals. Ann has written eight books, all of which have appeared on New York Times Best Seller list. Each book sent tremors down the spines of those on the left.

Ann, you go girl.
_________________________
I wish I had never picked up a steelhead rod.
Obsession sucks.

Top
#770117 - 07/03/12 05:37 PM Re: A Story About Guns [Re: IdahoSH]
Dogfish Offline
Poodle Smolt

Registered: 05/03/01
Posts: 10979
Loc: McCleary, WA
You lost me when you started with the name calling. I lean to the right side of the road, but you really need to take things objectively. I doubt Ann made anyone shiver with tremors, just like anything written by any of the left wing pundits.

Both sides in D.C are full of craptastic people. Unfortunately, neither side has learned to corner that market, yet.
_________________________
"Give me the anger, fish! Give me the anger!"

They call me POODLE SMOLT!

The Discover Pass is brought to you by your friends at the CCA.

Top
#770120 - 07/03/12 05:44 PM Re: A Story About Guns [Re: IdahoSH]
Todd Offline
Dick Nipples

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 28170
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
He lost you with the name calling...he lost me with the bullschit in the very first sentence...

Originally Posted By: IdahoSH
Ann may have overstated the title slightly when she used the term 'biggest', but the details themselves support the message that democrats are always trying to take our guns away.


I guess her article does indeed support that message...but anyone spreading that message is either ignorant, or lying.

Fish on...

Todd
_________________________


Team Flying Super Ditch Pickle


Top
#770126 - 07/03/12 06:20 PM Re: A Story About Guns [Re: Todd]
ParaLeaks Offline
WINNER

Registered: 01/11/03
Posts: 10513
Loc: Olypen
Right or wrong, "take away" and "restrict the use of" are constantly interchanged.
Having a weapon with a trigger lock installed is a "take away" to me, as it is perfectly useless without prior planning.
_________________________
Agendas kill truth.
If it's a crop, plant it.




Top
#770128 - 07/03/12 06:30 PM Re: A Story About Guns [Re: Dogfish]
IdahoSH Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 08/22/11
Posts: 251
Loc: On the Rogue
The modifiers I used may have been slightly too colorful.
I guess this sharp-elbowed place is effecting my writing.
_________________________
I wish I had never picked up a steelhead rod.
Obsession sucks.

Top
#770137 - 07/03/12 07:25 PM Re: A Story About Guns [Re: IdahoSH]
ParaLeaks Offline
WINNER

Registered: 01/11/03
Posts: 10513
Loc: Olypen
Some just prefer to micro-manage everything.....typically most noticeable by long winded explanations.
_________________________
Agendas kill truth.
If it's a crop, plant it.




Top
#770139 - 07/03/12 07:34 PM Re: A Story About Guns [Re: ParaLeaks]
Dan S. Offline
It all boils down to this - I'm right, everyone else is wrong, and anyone who disputes this is clearly a dumbfuck.

Registered: 03/07/99
Posts: 17149
Loc: SE Olympia, WA
Quote:
weak laws, which stymied them at every turn.


I wonder who supports keeping those weak laws weak.........chances are, it's the same people sniveling about F&F right now.

The next time you find yourself linking or c&p'ing ANYTHING from Ann Coulter, you should just go set yourself on fire for being such a fucktard.

I call names because I don't care all that much if anyone reads my posts. smile
_________________________
She was standin' alone over by the juke box, like she'd something to sell.
I said "baby, what's the goin' price?" She told me to go to hell.

Bon Scott - Shot Down in Flames

Top
#770153 - 07/03/12 09:31 PM Re: A Story About Guns [Re: Dan S.]
ParaLeaks Offline
WINNER

Registered: 01/11/03
Posts: 10513
Loc: Olypen
I miss the logic to that, Dan.
Do you really think any law would have made a difference?

Hank's dialed on this. The documents 'SHOULD' be released and everyone knows it. Definitely does NOT make DOHbama look good, IMO.
_________________________
Agendas kill truth.
If it's a crop, plant it.




Top
#770155 - 07/03/12 09:46 PM Re: A Story About Guns [Re: ParaLeaks]
Bigskyx Offline
Parr

Registered: 01/29/12
Posts: 42
"The next time you find yourself linking or c&p'ing ANYTHING from Ann Coulter, you should just go set yourself on fire for being such a fucktard."
rofl

"Do you really think any law would have made a difference?"

Did you read the article? They were powerless. They knew who had the guns and where they were going, but had no power to make arrests. So they had to just watch it happen.

I


Edited by Bigskyx (07/03/12 10:24 PM)
_________________________
Give a man a fish, he'll eat it and fall asleep.
Teach a man to fish and he'll endanger an entire species

Top
#770177 - 07/03/12 11:41 PM Re: A Story About Guns [Re: Bigskyx]
Jerry Garcia Offline



Registered: 10/13/00
Posts: 9160
Loc: everett
Nobody disputes that suspected straw purchasers under surveillance by the ATF repeatedly bought guns that eventually fell into criminal hands.



So somehow 2500 guns eventually fell into criminal hands. Gee, that could happen to any law enforcement agency--- if they were deaf, dumb and blind.
_________________________
would the boy you were be proud of the man you are

Growing old ain't for wimps
Lonnie Gane

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >

Search

Site Links
Home
Our Washington Fishing
Our Alaska Fishing
Reports
Rates
Contact Us
About Us
Recipes
Photos / Videos
Visit us on Facebook
Today's Birthdays
Jose, sky
Recent Gallery Pix
hatchery steelhead
Hatchery Releases into the Pacific and Harvest
Who's Online
0 registered (), 970 Guests and 3 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
John Boob, Lawrence, I'm Still RichG, feyt, Freezeout
11498 Registered Users
Top Posters
Todd 28170
Dan S. 17149
Sol Duc 16138
The Moderator 14486
Salmo g. 13523
eyeFISH 12767
STRIKE ZONE 12107
Dogfish 10979
ParaLeaks 10513
Jerry Garcia 9160
Forum Stats
11498 Members
16 Forums
63778 Topics
645368 Posts

Max Online: 3001 @ 01/28/20 02:48 PM

Join the PP forums.

It's quick, easy, and always free!

Working for the fish and our future fishing opportunities:

The Wild Steelhead Coalition

The Photo & Video Gallery. Nearly 1200 images from our fishing trips! Tips, techniques, live weight calculator & more in the Fishing Resource Center. The time is now to get prime dates for 2018 Olympic Peninsula Winter Steelhead , don't miss out!.

| HOME | ALASKA FISHING | WASHINGTON FISHING | RIVER REPORTS | FORUMS | FISHING RESOURCE CENTER | CHARTER RATES | CONTACT US | WHAT ABOUT BOB? | PHOTO & VIDEO GALLERY | LEARN ABOUT THE FISH | RECIPES | SITE HELP & FAQ |