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#779640 - 08/17/12 06:32 PM Re: Interesting letter [Re: eyeFISH]
WN1A Offline
Spawner

Registered: 09/17/04
Posts: 505
Loc: Seattle
For the biomass of returning adults I think that refers to adults at the rivermouth. A lot of folks do reap the benefits of Columbia Basin production. Just a few minutes ago talking to my fishing partner who knows a bit about chinook around the Pacific rim, she thinks just eliminating the Southeast Alaska winter troll fishery, not to mention bycatch in other fisheries, would make it possible for Columbia Basin hatcheries to meet their recruitment goals.

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#779644 - 08/17/12 07:38 PM Re: Interesting letter [Re: WN1A]
Smalma Online   content
Carcass

Registered: 11/25/01
Posts: 2233
Loc: Marysville
The southeast Alaska fisheries is a mix stock fishery on the largest scale with roughly 1/2 of the Chinook caught there are from waters outside of Alaska.

That fishery impacts the Columbia summer and fall Chinook in away significant way. Eliminating that harvest would certainly pay dividends in returns to the Columbia and its hatcheries. That said other Columbia stocks are not impact by that fishery in any significant way.

For example the Columbia spring Chinook enter marine fisheries in only a small way. The majority of the fishing impacts on those spring Chinook happens in the river. As WN1A's fishing partner will tell us Columbia's steelhead travel to the open Pacific with few fish entering Alaskan fisheries; again typicallythe bulk of fishing impacts occur in the Columbia river itself. Similarily the basins coho feed mainly off the Washington (late stock) and Oregon (early stock) entering those coastal fisheries in significant amounts.

Something to keep in mind is that significant amounts of the smolt biomass released from the hatcheries never make it out of the rivers. Mortalities at the dams and in-river predation are not insginficant factors.

tight lines
curt

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#779649 - 08/17/12 08:07 PM Re: Interesting letter [Re: Smalma]
Illahee Offline
Carcass

Registered: 05/22/05
Posts: 2046
Presently the CR is producing a fraction of historic levels, yet we seem fine with blaming everything but the real cause.

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#779670 - 08/18/12 06:04 AM Re: Interesting letter [Re: Illahee]
Lucky Louie Offline
Spawner

Registered: 11/30/09
Posts: 982
Originally Posted By: freespool
Presently the CR is producing a fraction of historic levels, yet we seem fine with blaming everything but the real cause.


All the more reason for other solutions than status quo gill nets.
_________________________
Ban all nets of mass destruction

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#779671 - 08/18/12 06:08 AM Re: Interesting letter [Re: Lucky Louie]
Lucky Louie Offline
Spawner

Registered: 11/30/09
Posts: 982
Originally Posted By: Lucky Louie
In 2010 the initial forecast was 470,000 springers. Final forecast ended up at 315,000.

Just as an example, let&#146;s take away the sport fishing, nontribal and tribal gillnets and say only live capture by seines was used that year in the LCR. With current live capture mortality with more tests to come all hatchery springers technically but not practically could have been caught with a 400 fish mortality way below the 2.2 impact rate for the LCR that year and that also doesn&#146;t deduct for the mark rate. The majority mortality rate is really determined and split between the 3 groups that didn&#146;t fish--- that would be status quo. Replace the gillnets with live capture isn&#146;t status quo.

Now with the commercials changing from gill nets to live capture, that would translate that handle to each of the other individual fisheries in the CR and there would be tens of thousands of bycatch savings with the usage of live capture.

Instead the commercial gillnet stooges----- the Gov. of OR and his merry lunatics think status quo is the answer.

Washington counterparts need to add some sanity to this fallacy. Idaho should chip in also since it is that bycatch that translates into their quality of fisheries in their state also.


Continuing on…

The final count by TAC was 315,000 spring Chinook for 2010 of which 9100 were caught in the main stem by commercials. The fishery was reported as tangle net only which would be 18.5% mortality by the MA.
So 1,684 fish were thrown back dead as bycatch.

To compare that scenario with the new live capture seine gear, there would have been 12 fish killed as by catch with current mortality rate with more tests on the way, compared to 1,684 dead as status quo gill nets.

So, Oregon wanting to phase out gill nets in the main stem makes sense, but moving gill nets to the SAFE areas instead of phasing them out totally is like the metaphor used on here of just moving around the chairs on the Titanic before it sinks.---<WASTE OF TIME AND NATURAL RESOURCES> when considering all commercial fisheries involved in the CR.

The Feds, Idaho, and WA need to sit down with Oregon because it just isn’t Oregon being affected by this ill advised waste and absurdity.
_________________________
Ban all nets of mass destruction

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#779676 - 08/18/12 08:26 AM Re: Interesting letter [Re: Lucky Louie]
SBD Offline
clown flocker

Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 3514
Loc: Water
You might want to add the markrate into your equation which runs about 75-80% on springers.
_________________________






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#779692 - 08/18/12 11:27 AM Re: Interesting letter [Re: SBD]
Lucky Louie Offline
Spawner

Registered: 11/30/09
Posts: 982
It’s here for others to play with by adding or deleting to.

So, a 70% mark rate taken from the MA would mean that of the total Chinook caught -take away 9100 hatchery salmon that were kept that would leave 505 ESA listed were killed after deducting appropriate mortality rate, along with whatever other species of by catch was caught and killed.

Compared to 3.5 ESA listed that would have been killed by live capture seines not including other species of by catch caught and killed---which would equal to very little by catch mortality compared to gill nets.

The video will show why such a low mortality rate is attainable to date and the fish are not dragged over the side of the boat as some suggest.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ir8QiLqPhjY
_________________________
Ban all nets of mass destruction

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#779841 - 08/19/12 01:49 PM Re: Interesting letter [Re: ]
Eric Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 3018
Oregon TV station KATU aired a pretty good debate on the initiative this morning. About 22 min but held my attention. Check it out....


http://www.katu.com/politics/Your-Vote-Y...tml?tab=gallery

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#779848 - 08/19/12 02:40 PM Re: Interesting letter [Re: Eric]
Illahee Offline
Carcass

Registered: 05/22/05
Posts: 2046
Originally Posted By: Eric
Oregon TV station KATU aired a pretty good debate on the initiative this morning. About 22 min but held my attention. Check it out....


http://www.katu.com/politics/Your-Vote-Y...tml?tab=gallery



OMG, the CCA rep. said CCA supports the Governors Safe For Salmon Plan.
That sucking sound is 10K CCAPNW members getting owned.
Could this be the very plan the CCA minions argued until they were blue in the face and said it was no good?
Better plan another banquet, they need more money.

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#779850 - 08/19/12 03:12 PM Re: Interesting letter [Re: Illahee]
SBD Offline
clown flocker

Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 3514
Loc: Water
Ist half to Polly 2nd to Wells..
_________________________






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#779945 - 08/20/12 06:33 AM Re: Interesting letter [Re: Illahee]
Lucky Louie Offline
Spawner

Registered: 11/30/09
Posts: 982
Originally Posted By: freespool
Originally Posted By: Eric
Oregon TV station KATU aired a pretty good debate on the initiative this morning. About 22 min but held my attention. Check it out....


http://www.katu.com/politics/Your-Vote-Y...tml?tab=gallery

That sucking sound is 10K CCAPNW members getting owned.
.


Or, the sucking sound is from the governors boot being pulled out from the gillnetters backside after kicking them out of the main stem which should have happened decades ago.

Wells did bring up a point of gillnetters having monitors on their boats in the past.
Monitors should be one of the conditions of gill netters using the SAFE areas so current data can be compiled on what exactly is happening in that fishery and at what expense to other stocks.
_________________________
Ban all nets of mass destruction

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#779950 - 08/20/12 07:29 AM Re: Interesting letter [Re: Lucky Louie]
SBD Offline
clown flocker

Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 3514
Loc: Water
Should be a grand old time with Seines on the Washington side and Terminals on the Oregon..Next idea?
_________________________






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#780512 - 08/21/12 10:03 PM Re: Interesting letter [Re: Fast and Furious]
Phoenix77 Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/04/06
Posts: 3422
Loc: Kent, WA
_________________________
I fish, ergo, I am.

If you must burn our flag, Please! wrap yourself in it.
Puget Sound Anglers, So. King Co.
CCA SeaTac Chapter

I love my country but fear my government

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