I am seriously thinking about getting a muzzleloader. Can someone please recommend or edcucate me which brand and type is appropriate in Washington? I saw some very nice guns by CVA, Savage, Knight, and Thompson but I just don't know which type/models are legal in WA. I like to know a little bit before I talk with the sales man. A couple of guys behind the gun counter at SportCo didn't give me much service for asking too much questions. Lets put that bad customer service aside because I won't buy my gun there after that incident.

Thanks

I have a CVA Hawken and a T/C Thunderhawk. Both rifles are plenty accurate for the job at hand.

The thing you might want to consider first is caliber. Both my rifles are .54, but there are fewer of them out there now days, as most sold are now .50 cals. I might suggest that you choose a .50 cal, if for no other reason than it will be easier to find one. I like my .54, and all of my gear is suited for that.

You need to find one that either uses Musket or #11 caps. Both mine use the #11 standard caps. The reason you might want to choose one that uses the musket caps is if you plan to shoot Pyrodex pellets. Some of the .50 cal rifles out there can handle 150 grain loads, 3 pellets. Lots of the rifles out there can use musket caps as well as #11 caps. #209 shotgun primers are not legal for use during the standard ML season in Washington.

I like my stainless rifle, as it is much easier to clean. Sure it isn't traditional, but it is weatherproof. Blue steel, black powder, and rain are a recipe for rust, no matter how clean and oiled you keep it.

T/C, Remington, CVA, and Knight all make quality rifles. Find one that meets the criteria listed above in your price range, and buy it.

One thing you will find when you hunt this way is that you won't have a lot of company out there, and the season is pretty long. I think I've taken 7 deer with my ML, and seldom has there been anyone around to hear my shot.

Lyman also makes a nice ML, I think they call it the "Deerslayer", or "Deerstalker". Fairly inexpensive but quality seems OK and it's a little lighter than say, a Hawken. I've been thinking about picking one up for my 13 yr old.

Myself, I've always used a Thompson/Center .50 cal carbine. Love it.

Dog' is right that oftentimes you won't have a lot of company, but this isn't always true. Depends on your unit. I just returned from elk hunting in unit 342, and it seemed there was a hunter under every bush! Makes for great socializing however.

Thank you for the help guys.
So basically it is any rifle that does not use a shot shell and a 209 primer, right?

The #209 is a shotgun primer, and no gun that I am aware of uses a shotshell for ignition, but I could be wrong. Some of the rifles that are sold out there conceal the cap. The cap must be exposed to the elements. My interpretation of this is that you must be able to see at least some of the copper of the cap.

I really don't understand Washington's stand on the "209 primer", "the exposed to the elements", and "all lead bullet" issues. By allowing the 209 primers and protecting them from the rain it increases reliability, reduces the possibility of water getting to the powder, and possibly reduces the amount of deer wounded because of hangfires. A hangfire occurs when the cap is struck, but there is a delay before the powder goes off. Sometimes this is minimal, but other times it is very apparent.

I would like to be able to use some of the copper jacketed bullets in a sabot. I currently use a 390 grain bullet in a SWCHP formation that performs well, 340 grains retained weight and expansion from .535" to .865", but I think I could get better performance and cleaner kills from a 240 grain .429" bullet out of a sabot.

The main issue is that you still have a limited range, and you only get one shot. I could give or take the scope issue with a ML (can't have one currently) as I have shot 15 deer on my life, and only used a scope on three while hunting modern. I just wish they would open it up to all ML weapons that are single shot to make it simple. Then I'd buy one of those cool new T/C rifles.

I also like the Lyman rifles. Straight forward simplicity, but solid.

Dogfish gave you all the right scoop on what's legal.

Personally, I like the T/C Black Diamond XLR. I think you'd have a hard time beating the quality for the price, but then we all have our favorites.

I make sure my hunting muzzleloaders use musket caps because they burn so much hotter than standard #11 caps.

You might do a little research and then post the model you intend to buy here. I'm sure one or more of us could verify that it's legal in Washinton.

Good luck,

Fisherdan....have you had many misfires with the musket caps? I've had several with #11 caps and it cost me a deer last year.

Regarding muzzleloaders, I have stainless/composite stock Knight Wolverine in 50 caliber. I love it, but haven't really shot anything else so don't have much comparitive experience. I bought based on reports from several folks on other boards plus an article I found on Chuck Hawks site.

Yes, to be legal the nipple must be exposed to elements. However, I've seen plenty of folks out there using new modern in-lines where I couldn't see the nipple so it makes me wonder whether this is really being enforced. (?)

I like the current regs. It keeps some people away from it. Just think if they were as reliable as a rifle what is stopping everybody from switching over.
I shoot a Knight Bighorn, my party has 7 of them. And they are just about perfect.

BigTULE, I just handled a Knight Bighorn today and it was the best feeling my hands ever felt in awhile. Thats a stainless barrel, black synthetic stock with a thumb hole, right?
I am curious to know how it shoots. Does $369 sound right for this rifle?

Hey Little Fish,

I swithced to musket caps after experiencing too many misfires or hangfires with #11 caps.

Since going to musket caps the problem is gone.

I read somewhere that musket caps burn 600-700 degrees hotter than #11 caps. I can't swear to it, but here's what I do know. Shoot a couple of #11's off in your gun (cap only) and listen to the report. Then change to a musket nipple and do the same thing. The musket caps are WAAAAAY louder. to me, loud = big bang = good ignition = dead elk.

I don't have any personal experience with Knight's, but I know plenty of guys who love them, so they must be good. I just know that with my T/C Black Diamond XLR dialed in that I feel mighty confident going into the woods.

Best of luck,

I have both a Traditions and a CVA inline ML. They are both .50 cal. I use Musket caps as well because they are so much hotter. I was told by a game warden that the so called sealed breach ML like the Knights, Thompson, etc are not legal for use during ML seasons. The nipple must be open and exposed to the elements. That said, if you use a ML during modern firearm seasons, you can have a scope, sealed breach and jacketed bullets. This is because you are modern firearm hunting. But that is only if you have modern tags. My Traditions has a "fire dome" breach plug set up. I have never had a hang fire since switching to that plug. I shoot pyrodex pellets and power belt bullets. I use 295 grain power belts for deer and 348 for elk. I use two 50/50 pyrodex pellets, which is 100 grains, behind both loads. I have found that my groups get bigger with 150 grains. If you go shopping around you will see many cheap ML around the 120 price range. Both of my guns cost less than 150 bucks, and both shot well past 150 yards. Groups are around three inches at 100 yards on both guns. I have killed deer at 110 and 150 yards. A buddy used my CVA on a deer at 150 also. I have only killed one elk at 40 yards. I have the fiber optic sights for low light also. FisherDan had a bunch of info he shared with me when I first got into ML around 4 years back. You may want to check the archives for that. Another good place to stop by is the ML shop on River Road near the Clarks Creek bridge. They were very helpful and there prices are not bad. Wal-Mart has a complete ML package right now. I think the gun runs around 180. Just remember that the nipple must be exposed, the bullet for deer must be solid lead with no jacket, sabots are legal is the are at least .40 cal and lead with no copper jacket, .50 cal for any other big game. No scopes or glass tube sights. When I got into the ML stuff, I was told by several people you can't go wrong with a inline, pyrodex pellets, and power belts. Simple to use and simple to load.

Nice buck WBH...were you in one of the 340-units by chance? Thought I spoke with you up elk hunting in 342. Glad you got something.

Thanks for the info Fisherdan.

Wabowhunter......I read somewhere that the Remington #11 caps are more reliable than the other two common brands out there. I have yet to use them, but may give them a try.

Thanks Moe... and you might have talked to me if you were over in the 335 Teanaway area... we covered a lot of ground every day... Even the horseback hunters commented on seeing our foot prints everywhere.

Little Fish... I have shot (should say tried to shoot) the CCI caps and I will only ever use them to fowl my rifle or empty it... they take several hammer hits to ignite if at all... we have been using the Remingtons a lot and both my partner and I have never had a no-fire... love them. They are available at Walmart or Sportco carries the also...

I have another question.
I am definitely getting a Knight Bighorn and they have a 50 and a 52 caliber. I am leaning toward the 52 just because I have a mentality, "Bigger is better", so can you guys let me know the advantages and disadvantages of the two?

Thanks

You will have less options of bullets at the 52.

The knights are an open breach inline.

I can shoot 150 grains of pyrodex, but not as accurate. We shoot 110 grains with 348 bullets for everything.

I personally use the PR bullets. Saboted of course.
I use the CCI musket primers. They are the hottest of the primers we can shoot, that is also my opinion.
We have had our knights for 5 years now and we have killed 3 bulls, all 1 or 2 shots from 100- 140 yards.
Funny thing is they do not run when you shoot, they mill about trying to figure out what is going on.

Where we hunt it is getting to crowded. I saw a disabled hunter driving the roads last year with his plackard, i had to shake my head. Is he going to shoot an animal from the road???

Go with the .50 because there isn't much difference in size or weight of projectile but the availability of .50 cal. bullets (and the like) is much greater. (I assume you mean .50 vs. .54cal)

Bobs in Longview had Bighorns on sale for about $50- $100 less than the price you mentioned.The sale is probably over but if you call and ask they will usually give you the sale price.

They had all 3 variations of the 50 caL.

Thats what I shoot.Excellent gun.

The Dynamit Nobel german caps in the red plastic packs are by far the best caps out there.Chek them out.