Why have we been mislead? He had a AR-15, but left it in the trunk. The shooter had four pistols instead.

http://video.today.msnbc.msn.com/today/50208495#50208495

I will say first, the parents of those murdered kids are going through hell on earth this Christmas without their children.
I can't imagine their grief.

There has been misinformation passed around on the weapons.
It was reported initially that the shooter was found with a Glock and a Sig.
A shotgun could be seen being taken out of a trunk by a cop in the vids.
I tend to think that the misinformation was just ignorant reporting (guessing).
Can't see a motive for the locals to fabricate an AR story in their "ban state".

Here is the link that I forgot to add.

http://video.today.msnbc.msn.com/today/50208495#50208495

Nope

Do you have ears? Can you listen?

that is deffinately not and AR.. it could however be a POS High Point rifle, which would be classified as an assault rifle, but it fires pistol rounds, not rifle rounds...

i almost certian that there are bullets that were still inside, and in the walls and such,that could be examined.. they should have no problem determining if it was a .223, or a 9mm, or a .45, or pretty much anything larger than the .223..

there should be ZERO debate on what gun was used...

and if there was no "assault rifle" used, then it shouldnt even be attacked...

I don't see any gun on the link I posted??

http://www.opednews.com/articles/Sandy-Hook-Weapon-Present-by-Martha-Rosenberg-121225-450.html


JFC

The first report I heard, and I cannot say who I heard it from, was that the AR was in the trunk, not used, he had a Glock and a Sig with him but nothing was said about a shotgun until much later.

?????

If that is the truth, then why all the lies about him using an "assault rifle?"

Ithought this was good.

How about we wait for a final report on the event before we jump to a conclusion? I agree that the difference in what the media is reporting now vs originally is concerning.

It's not like I'm losing any sleep over it, just find it kinda odd.

No way its one of those. Look at the size of round that comes out when its cleared. Dosent look like a pistol round. To me it looks like an FNAR. FNAR is .308 and has a bull barrel and could be confused as shotgun diameter. At first when they described it I thought it might be a saiga which is a shotgun on an AK platform but I dont see the gas return on top of the rifle. An FNAR gas return is inside the foregrip.

One of my guesses were right. I guess you can kinda see the gas return a little better in that vid. Those Saiga jam alot if loaded with wrong ammo. Check out youtube on those. Pretty nasty critter when rockn' and rolln'.

I wish I had a box full of those Saiga 12 round mags.

I wish I had bought a box full of Saiga's when they were $199 each, $250 for .308.

So anybody hear anything more?
How many weapons, what were they, where were they?
Fer chrissakes, how can it not be public knowledge by now?????????

Maybe the media is figuring out how stupid they are by trying to beat the other guy vs. being thorough. They really srewed the pooch this time with all the misinformation that was being thrown around as the news broke. I havent heard about what kind of weapons the jackass that ambushed those firefighters used yet either.

A large quantity of unused ammunition was recovered from the school along with three semi-automatic firearms found with Adam Lanza: a .223-caliber Bushmaster XM-15 rifle,[61] a 10mm Glock 20 SF handgun [5][62] and a 9mm SIG Sauer handgun.[4][63] A shotgun was found in the car Lanza had driven to the school.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandy_Hook_Elementary_School_shooting

I do.........

Hey Randy, I called Wades today to see how much the Colt 6920's were going for...he said 3200.00

I bought mine last year for 1100.00 I have 30 unopened 30 round pmags

I stopped at WCA in Factoria and all the ammo was gone, the store was packed with family kids it was crazy.

a friend of mine just picked up a 6920 4 days ago for 1270.00... next day it was 1900.00... dont know where he went, but he lives in Seattle...

They haven't been 1270 for two weeks....mebbe it was used?

nope, new... the online price was 2750 as of yesterday he said...


they used to be a grand...

I bought them because I was afraid this would happen, and because they were on sale for 9.99.

Ban all guns dammit!!!!

All these guns are trained killers....

Proof from the Seattle Times:
"So far this year, Seattle has had 26 homicides, all but three due to firearms"

Got my 10 new teflon coated aluminum mags in the mail yesterday. Swapping out the green followers for the anti-tilt gray ones tonight.

Nice Andy! 30 rd with MAGPUl anti-tilt?

I need more supplies and Santa didn't bring me any...

Yup. Also picking up my Tactical Solutions Paclite upper for my Ruger Mk 1 pistol tonight. 6" threaded barrel. That should pretty much round out the arsenal, including the two cans that are in process.

I have a lead on two lowers from a friend who bought 12 a while back. Might just have to buy and bank those.

Rookie!

If there are two things that the NRA and the Guns and Ammo Industry love it's greed and fear...well, that and President Obama.

Fish on...

Todd

No fear, I was stocked up fairly well, just needed a few more items, and I've been working a lot this year saving up for a few of the items I just purchased, only about $800. Was waiting to pull the trigger on a number of items, and my dealer got them in stock from an order I made a few weeks back (takes a few weeks to get a suppressor through the Form 3 route from Mfg. to dealer). I have a lifetime of ammo and components for each firearm I own, plus mags, etc. I'm a buy and hold type, not an opportunist. I am not the guy who will be out there dropping $50 for a P-mag, or $300-500/1,000 .223 rounds. I have enough of those already.

President Obama looks like he'll be firearm salesman of the year, once again.

Actually, while the gun stores might see a good blip in their sales for the end of the year, they probably won't like the significant drop off in cash flow and sales that takes place next month, and through March of maybe as long as June. There'll be a few weak ones who will fold unless they can get new inventory.

You're not the "panic buyer" who just spent his rent on a high capacity magazine because the NRA just told him that Obama is on his way over to his house to grab it.

From talking to Randy today it seems that we should have no trouble defining what a "high capacity magazine" is.

A "high capacity magazine" is a $10 part that is selling for $40, which means buyers are either four times as afraid, or four times as dumb as they were two weeks ago.

Or both.

Fish on...

Todd

Sorry! next time I will post a pic of the other side of the room....

Most of us have moved past rent and pay a mortgage....

I was going to say.....chit I got that much between the seats of my truck <grin>

Todd, you need to stick with tackle, cuz you don't know chit about Guns and ammo...you're welcome.

I think salesperson of the year will go to Ms Feinstein.

Ahem! I doubt "most of us" have.

BTW Hank......gr8 article!

Sad thing is, $40 is a good buy as of right now.

If you don't think so, check out eBay and Gunbroker.

Wades had them today for 34.95....lot's of them too.

Hell of a deal..........

how much are used going for? the standard metal/issue mags? i know where i can get an assload for 10 bucks a crack... a bunch of Pmags too, but they are used as well... not beat, but not in the package...

Depending on condition, I have seen the metal mags sell for $15-$25.

I have seen used PMAGs listed for $20-$30.

Used is definitely more of a gamble on the resale market.

Their 20 round mags were the same price? I'm going to take one of my NIB Colt AR's in there tomorrow to see if they'll trade 4 Glocks of my choice for it.

Funny thing. When you are a regular customer of a gun shop, and drive a lot of business their way, currently marked retail prices fade away.

This is my 12' bench. We have another 16' bench, with more machinery. Powder and primer magazines are in another room.

fisheye lenses are great board benders

I shoot mainly bolt action rifles and shotguns so I don't load more then a few hundred per rifle chambering....

Plum, level & square.

I'm getting all horned up just looking at this thread.

i dont know what to think about this... what do you guys think?

the LIBOR stuff is interesting tho...

http://shortlittlerebel.wordpress.com/2012/12/16/urgent-update-on-connecticut-shooting/

I don't know why it continues to amaze me that people seem to get stupider and stupider and stupider every day. I sure hope that woman has not bred.

Fish on...

Todd

Opps........It looks like someone may have rushed to a conclusion and/or "cooked" some of the information for their own special interests: Could that really happen???....LOL

And no this is not from FOX News.

The apparent truth is matching up closely to the original reports that handguns were used.

http://video.today.msnbc.msn.com/today/50208495#50208495

I don't get it ? How fcking hard is it? You could send a third grader in the class room to pick up the shell casings and tell within ten minutes what type of guns were used? WTF over?

The initial reports, immediately after the shooting, was that handguns were used and an Bushmaster was found in his vehicle.

Then it changed, about 36 hours later, to he used the Bushmaster inside the school.

Now the above news update stating that the Bushmaster never left his vehicle.

Very interesting how trained professionals could have such a hard time identifying the weapons used.

And Hank.......you speak in such certainties yet certainly have no first hand knowledge.

Hopefully it was the 10mm.

If it wasn't for the media, we'd never know.

Perhaps it is semantics, couldn't any weapon used to assault someone be classified as an "assault weapon?" I really hate that term. In reality it is meaningless and arbitrary.

We could just as easily have chosen to call them "defense weapons" as they (the governments definition I guess) are much more commonly used for that purpose.

Maybe the Gubmint should re-brand the DoD as the "Department of Assault", and start calling "defense spending" what it is..."assault spending"...or, more accurately, "let's waste all our money to make a handful of defense contractors who donate to our campaigns fuckin rich...Department."

I'm still not real clear on what an "assault weapon" is...it's almost like "if it looks like one, then it is"...

Fish on...

Todd

The "assault rifle" was originally reported as found in the BACKSEAT of the vehicle was identified as a BushMaster immediately.

Interesting that it was called out by name.

The weapon in the trunk appears to be a Saiga shotgun....not much doubt.

Anyway how do the first responders identify a Glock and a Sig Sauer, by name, as the weapons used inside the school?

These same first responders to the actual location inside the school, including police and firefighters, should be able to tell the difference handguns and a Bushmaster "assault rifle"

Teen shot and killed in Far Rockaway, Queens by two masked men armed with AK-47, pistol


A Queens mom who hoped to see her teen son become a marine biologist instead saw him Saturday in the morgue.

Xavier Granville, 17, was gunned down by a pair of ski-masked gunmen — one toting an AK-47 assault rifle — after a late-night party in Far Rockaway, police sources said.

“My son didn’t deserve to go out like this,” said a distraught Shakira Granville after identifying the body of her only child. “The pain I feel. I’m just in shock.”

Xavier was a cheerful teen who loved video games and the ocean — with plans to become a marine biologist, according to his mom.

One witness said he thought the fatal shooting of the high school junior was a case of mistaken identity. “I don’t think those bullets were intended for him,” said the witness, who declined to give his name. “Everyone loved Xavier.”

The two gunmen opened fire around 12:30 a.m. as Granville was headed for home, according to the witness. The second shooter was armed with a .45-caliber pistol, and the two masked men began spraying gunfire on Beach 15th St. near Heyson Road.

While the motive for the slaying remained a mystery, a police source indicated that Granville had possible gang ties. He died from a bullet to the head.

jkemp@nydailynews.com

If only Granville had his own AK and could have fired back, this regrettable incident could have been avoided...because, as we all know, the answer is always "more guns".

Fish on...

Todd

That story has to be false due to the fact that AK 47's are illegal in New York.

Bloomberg said so......

fishy......the connection is?

The phrase "I know it when I see it" is a colloquial expression by which a speaker attempts to categorize an observable fact or event, although the category is subjective or lacks clearly defined parameters. The phrase was famously used by United States Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart to describe his threshold test for obscenity in Jacobellis v. Ohio (1964). Obscenity is not protected speech under the Miller test, and can therefore be censored.

I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description ["hard-core pornography"]; and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it, and the motion picture involved in this case is not that. [Emphasis added.]
—Justice Potter Stewart, concurring opinion in Jacobellis v. Ohio 378 U.S. 184 (1964), regarding possible obscenity in The Lovers.

The expression became one of the most famous phrases in the entire history of the Supreme Court.[1]

Stewart's "I know it when I see it" standard was praised as an example of candor[2] and "realistic and gallant."[3]

A well-known quotation of this phrase is found in Goldfinger, when M asks Bond: "What do you know about gold?" and Bond replies with "I know it when I see it."[4]

C&P from Wickopedia

Big Daddy has it right. I watched and absorbed the entire first 48 - 72 hours (every news outlet for an unbiased view) of Newtown and it WAS widely reported that ONLY handguns were used inside the school and the 15 was in the vehicle. They even had a picture of it leaning up against said vehicle after they found it. Then some 2-3 days afterwards (and after the Dem Libtards immediately politicized the moment)....poof! The 15 was in the school and did all of the damage (instead of the handguns)? What, did the little prick run back outside and put it in the trunk and then run back in?

WTF? I mean really? Seriously?

The coroner / forensices teams get an immediate lifetime hero pass because of what they saw and did while doing their job. However maybe I'm dense here and missing something important, but hollow points (used as reported) from either the 15 or a handgun do what all hollow points do - and that's explode. So unless they piece mealed rounds back together to match its corresponding weapon....how would they know which rounds came from which gun?

Fully jacketed rounds would just go right through and Forensics could more easily determine a .223 from a 9mm right?

Can someone please explain any part of the above to me?

As a dude known for saying stupid schit repeatedly, Hank, I think you've really outdone yourself on this one.

Fish on...

Todd

When guns are deemed illeagle only criminals will possess them.

Hank the reports by the Huffington Post and other news outlets 36 hours after the shooting are not the issue or in dispute.

The issue is the vastly different initial reports from the scene and the subsequent follow-up reports.

Hank .........re-watch the video I posted and pay close attention when they report that several Federal and State Officials state that "only handguns" were used in the killings. Pay CLOSE attention to the segment....14 seconds to 50 seconds.

Don't argue with me.........argue with NBC and their sources.

There is none, like everything else he posts.

Are you guys really arguing around the concept that "news" is inaccurate?

If you aren't painfully aware of that by now...

Do you think Todd knows what he thinks?

Let's find out.........

Yo! Todd, do you know what you think? Do you have a solution? Let's hear it!

(Extra points if you can answer without too many broad-brush statements and name calling.)

Not arguing ColeyG, simply wondering out loud how such "inaccuracies" can be present when the physical gun evidence was there to see, touch and analyze.

Pretty hard to mix up the ID of such weapons.

The evidence must have "morphed" itself after about 48 hours.

Todd doesn't know if his a$$ is punched or bored.

That Mean Bastard is all over it.

How damn hard can it be to make a clear statement about what weapons were found where?

Is it too much to expect.....no, DEMAND an accurate statement and retraction(s) of all statements that are now known to be inaccurate?

The whole country deserves to know the truth.......PERIOD

I don't know if its arguing about the accuracy of the media (which would be pointless to Todd's point). Rather I think its about the HUGE frickin' difference between the 15 being used or not (and being used as a "late" trump card for the grabbers). I could give two chits about the media. I want to know which weapons were actually used. There is no national discussion on "assult rifles" if the 15 was left in the trunk. See the point now?

We better not have been lied to in regards to an AR-15 being used. The AR makes more sense, but who knows?

And you expect the media to report that?

The news isn't about truth these days, it is about being first, and dramatic, and maintaining viewership. The truth is an afterthought. If that is what you seek, you will need to look elsewhere.

Coley, considering the power of the media, doesn't that scare you?

So if the victims are huddled together will a bullet fired from a handgun go through one victim and enter another victims body? By claiming 3 to 11 wounds per body would make it seem that around 200 rounds were fired. I would not expect shots from a handgun fired at close range to only impact one body.

Each part of the competing media tries to get the scoop,beat each other to be the first to come out with the story and in the process screws up big time . As days go by the story gets straightened out. It's not that complicated. The video that keeps getting posted here looks to be dated 12-15. More accurate information has come out since then.

No. It makes me sad. If we had something to lose, I would be scared. Sadly, I think we have already lost it.

Do I have this right? You know the media is not reporting the truth and you want the real truth? How do you know the media is not reporting the truth? A multitude of studies have shown how two people seeing the same event report details from two seemingly different events. The phenomena is called belief dependent reality. People view events filtered through their belief system . They form a belief and then use the facts that only support that belief. Sounds like some of you pro black guns or pro guns only want information that favors your view ? Is it really important which weapons were used?

The media has no more interest in "the truth" than its customers do...most the dudes in this thread don't want "the truth" ... they want "the truth that fits their opinion"...and the news media, being in the entertainment and ad selling business first, gives its customers what they want.

Fish on...

Todd

I can't speak for everyone else, but I can tell you straight up that I want the truth. And yes, Tom, I think I have that right. (I suspect, however, that "legally" that may not be true?)

Is there a way to fix it........or do you think that it is important?

The truth as I pointed out is subjective to the person forming it. The facts will come out at some point in time , typically 6 months to a year from the event. Why do people allow the debate to be framed by someone with an agenda? Tools nor methods are the issue here , don't let the freedom takers frame the debate by getting you defending bunny trails.

True that. The subject matter in itself is emotion-charged and plays right into agenda-based deceit......(see sig line).

There are few things that disgust me more than agenda-based liars.....especially so if the liars are charged with public trust.

heres the TRUTH... well not really, but im really curious as to why i havent heard about this, i mean sh!t, its not like movie theater shootings happen every single day...

oh thats right, a good person with a gun stopped it... thats why..

http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/201...ng-2524596.html

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local_news/article/Two-wounded-in-theater-shooting-4122668.php

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57559506/shots-fired-patrons-panic-at-san-antonio-theater/

Not that it changes the outcome, but I'd like to know the total number and kinds of guys Lanza had both in the car and with him and what gun or guns were used to commit the murders. That's just basic crime statistics that police collect everywhere.

Hank, why do you think Lanza couldn't have killed all his victims with handguns? The WVU shooter had only handguns and killed more, and presumably more difficult victims in terms of their ages and locations.

Sg

I'm fine with giving up more gun rights. Safety first, right? Tap my phone if it makes everyone safer. Whatever. That said, I'm still trying imagine someone with this kid's issues, armed like seal team six, wiping out a classroom with the courage to save a bullet for himself. He seems to be a bit of an overachiever with his skillset. Wonder what kind of medication he was on,if any.
I finished last in my class, so I'm still just trying to learn from the smart kids....peace

“Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.”



Benjamin Franklin

Guess that answers that. Thank you

Hank,

Your answer explains what Lanza did and what he could have done, but you didn't answer why you think he couldn't have killed all his victims using handguns only.

Sg

Hank,

OK. I know what was reported. I was just curious why you thought Lanza couldn't have done it with hand guns when there is reasonable evidence to the contrary. Now that you say, "The VA Tech shooting proves Lanza could have shot and killed his victims with handguns." we're good, even if you're contradicting your previous statement. I'm just being thorough about cleaning up the details.

Sg

Yeah Hank, how one says things matters, I've learned. How you said it had me thinking you believed he couldn't have used hand guns, which is different than believing he didn't use hand guns because the reports or other evidence indicated he didn't.

Even though you're a RWWJ, you're an otherwise intelligent and articulate person, so I was trying to figure out why you believed "he couldn't have used hand guns." Thanks for taking the time to clarify.

Actually at this point I'm uncertain what he did use. Without a time stamp on each report, it's hard to update and know which statement supercedes the last. At this point Lanza apparently had four handguns in total, but only two have been identified, the Sig and the Glock, and the Bushmaster and a shotgun. But if there were 4 handguns, why were only 2 identified? Or were there really only 2, but some erroneous reports said there were 4? Not that every detail matters, but getting the weapon inventory straight is imperative if Congress and Legislatures are intent on enacting new gun legislation.

Sg

Keerist. You two should get a room. lol

Since the media so often gets it wrong, I too am curioous just what
implements were used in the atrocity.

Does B U stand for butt ugly....?

So now they are saying the AR was in the trunk again.

http://video.today.msnbc.msn.com/today/50208495#50208495

Never mind......old video. That is what I get for reading facebook!!!

For the love of God, can we agree that an AR was the weapon of choice?