Another member on here and I had posted comments on a fishing report questioning the safety factor of this walk in guide taking new people to Tokul creek as well as what he could possibly "teach" them about real steelhead fishingsince that is what he claims he is doing. The comments were deleted by the guide and I was sent this message from said guide......I find it humorous...heere is what I posted over on the other site but tbought you guys would get a kick out of it....sorry for the length.....

I really didn't want to start an argument....but here is my response in public since I don't feel guides or anyone should be treated special just because they are a sponsor....so here we go.

Cool it

Sent: Wed Jan 02, 2013 1:16 pm From: natetreat To: mallard79

1. Eggs are the best way to fish tokul, bar none. Hands down. That's why I leave with fish when it's low and clear when everyone else gets skunked.

2. This is my business, Washington Lakes is my advertising. I'm not going to have these sorts of discussions on my reports. If you have a problem with safety at Tokul, post a forum post. Or post your own report.

3. Tokul is a great place for beginners to safely learn to fish, without waders, to read water and to catch fish. You can disagree with me, but that doesn't change the fact that it is. You get to watch how steelhead behave, you can see the pockets that they hide in and you can watch them come up and grab your eggs. I understand that you don't like the amount of people there, you think that it's just a crap shoot snag show, but it doesn't have to be and it's not when I teach my clients to fish. We don't wade anywhere dangerous, safety is always my first concern. If I had people drowning on my watch, my insurance would go through the roof, and I'd be sued. Instead I teach people to fish full time and have had no injuries in the three years that I've been guiding five days a week.

Your comments will be deleted if they are negative on my reports. That's not the place for them. If you have a problem with me, than talk to me directly and I will address your concerns. I'm not going to bicker and call names, have the flossing/snagging banter back and forth with you. You and the other mallard are just plain wrong about that place. Give it a try sometime, bobber dog some boraxed eggs through some of the slots at Tokul, and you will see those fish come out of nowhere to grab them. It's because of people like you that think the only way to catch 'em is with a short leader and flossing them that you get them aggressive on the egg bite. I encourage you to talk to some of my students that I've taken out. Ask them how much they learned when they went out with me. Ask them if they could tie and egg loop before they hired me, knew what a clinch knot was or how to fillet a fish. I don't have to sell myself to you, you obviously know everything already, but I will ask you to back off my reports. Someday I look forward to fishing with you and talking about it, I could show you quite a few things. I've been fishing for 20 years straight and have thousands of fish. I've been teaching for half that, and I know a few things. I am confident that Tokul is a great place to learn to fish, conveniently located close to Seattle, with a high concentration of fish. There is lots of places my clients can fish from without having waders, you can see how fish behave and gain an understanding of their behavior. The majority of my clients don't even wear waders, so drowning is not an issue. I am safer than any angler out there by necessity, and implications that I am not will be addressed very quickly I assure you. These are the kinds of things that turn people off from fishing, intimidate them and why people get discouraged and quit the hobby. Please use the site respectfully and have a good day.

And my response:

How about a poll of people who fish Tokul. How many fish with bait? How many without? My bet would be that the vast majority would say no bait. Why? Because it doesn't last and doesn't increase your odds of catching fish at all. As stated in my comment on the report, my family and I (including my mentor/great grandfather who fished the creek until he was 93) have been fishing it since the haydays. We have taken thousand of fish out of Tokul creek alone. Many have tried bait and it always ends short when they reallize that it is cheaper and just as effective to not use bait. Not saying it doesn't or can't work...just that it is not needed.

As for being a good place to learn....how hard is it to look at Tokul and know where the fish will be? Maybe in front of and behind those bigger rocks or groups of rocks that break the current. If you want to teach people how to read water, do it on the bigger rivers that actually have riffles, runs, pools....teach what to look for...where to fish spinners, spoons, jigs, floats, bait, etc.

I don't know who called names but it was not myself or the other mallard who commented. I wasn't commenting about flossing/snagging I posted a legitimate safety concern in a place where it would get the most views. I love how aparently this guide who has never met decides that I should be impressed by the idea that he has been fishing for 20 years and has caught thousands of fish and how he could teach me a few things.......sorry to inform him that if numbers matter then I have him beat by 10 years and i would just guess but that probly equates to a few more fish as if it really matters. As for saying I know everything......well as flattering as it is that he thinks this about me I will be the first to admit that it is not true but would venture I do know more about the Tokul fishery.

Congrats to him for getting people to pay to fish hatchery runs. Not my cup of tea. It is much more rewarding to fish in a non combat setting and might aid in the learning curve. I have had the honor to teach and be involved in many kids and adults catch their first salmon or steelhead. Am I really suppose to be impressed that you were able to teach someone to tie.a knot? My son was doing able to tie those knots when he was 4.....not impressed.

His clients don't wear waders so drowning is not an issue??? REALLY?? Ignorant much? More people die without waders on every year. The safety concern stems from the fact that my family has witnessed several people drown and I have pulled man out of the creek myself. To take people who have limited time on slippery rocks near a very fast moving creek is not a good idea.

Guides are people just like the rest of us.....I just felt it necesary to show people what kind of guide you are going with. Aparently it is his way or you are wrong and god forbid you point out that bait is not needed or that the place he is fishing might be a bit dangerous for his clients......

Have a good day.

i started fishing Tokul probably 15 years ago, i quit fishing bait 14 7/8ths years ago there, its pointless... honestly, its not even a fun place to fish... his "my stretch" comment was killer too.... how long is that creek again?

the dangerous comments are absurd, and stupid.. every river or creek is dangerous... just because people "havent drowned", doesnt mean that people havent busted their heads off the big rocks on the far side... ive personally seen people do it, as well as slam face first after tripping (fighting a fish, not paying attention), and just absolutely DRILL thier face into the bridge pylons if they are still there.. ive also seen people fall into the hatchery channel... "not dangerous" is stupid, unthoughtfull, disrespectfull, and extremely dangerous thinking to his clients...

fvckin Tokul creek....

and i thought guiding on the Carbon was bad...

In this day and age, if a guide can get paying clients for a day on Tokul Creek, more power to 'em.

you ought to start guiding there with your skills catching dollies there

Arguing about Tokul....really ?

Why did i just read that?

As for dangerous, I was there one day fishing the "Island" and there was a rather elder gentleman fishing on the bar that forms above Tokel out on the main river. He fell and had on rubber chest waders and no belt, only thing we see coming down the river are his feet and his rod, with the fish still on!

We formed a human chain and used the longest walking stick to poke him until he grabbed a hold of it and we pulled him up and got him to shore, where he was promptly met by the Emergency squad.

If he had gotten past us he would have gone over that little slot and been pulled down for who knows how long, he was very lucky we could reach him.

He spent a few days in the hospital and fully recovered but said he wouldn't go again by himself.

Fishy

PS. Oh yeah, he dropped the rod to use both hands on the walking stick which saved his life.

The first being Mallard for making his post. What a turd!

Yep, which means 99% of the thousands of Tokul steelhead that your family has caught have been flossed.

Growing up and learning to fish for salmon and steelhead in Snohomish meant I never had to venture to the Big Muddy or it's most famous tributary, Tokul Creek. Why would I? I had the Sky, Wallace, Pilchuck, N. Fork Stilly and others at my disposal and less a drive to boot.

My parents moved to Fall City about 12 years ago and I got my first look at the Big Eddy and Tokul Creek. The Eddy (where Tokul dumps in to the Snoqualmie, for those who have never been there) is probably the worst waste of a terminal water ever. It is nothing more than a huge washing machine. The ONLY people who catch fish are the guys that walk out to "the island" in the tailout and stand shoulder to shoulder, float fishing the only non-swirly, flat spot in the entire section of water.

Tokul Creek? Uggghhhh. Once and a while I still walk up the creek, sans rod, just to see how guys are catching the fish. Let me tell you, these guys are expert flossers. They don't need 10 foot long leaders and a bead...just a tuft of yarn on a 8" leader will do just fine. I call the style of casting the "Samish Flip". I have NEVER EVER EVER seen a fish caught with bait, float, hardware, or even a corkie.

No kidding, just last year I spotted a couple of fish from the bridge and this guy walks down, makes a little flip cast and places the hook on the inside of the fishes mouth. I've seen some good flossers before, but these boys (and one Asian woman), are the creme de la creme.

Ike

JFC Is this the Jerry Springer fishing spin off board?

Dave,

Does this mean you won't be nominating the Mallard70/natetreat piece of prose for this years Northwest Outdoor Writers Association Best Collaboration Award?

Can be DV. At times the moniker " home of the rude, crude, and lewd" is appropriate.

Hmmm....
Upon further review, young greenhead could be reaching out for a mentor.

Not really impressed with Mallard79's approach at all. Thanks for stopping by though.

This is dumb... mind your own business.

Hi guys! I'm Nate, with Nate Treat Fishing. I teach lessons. That's right. On the Sky, on Tokul, on the Nooch and yes, on the OP. If you'd like to know what I'm all about, check out my website at www.natetreatfishing.com . And if you'd like to catch a bunch of fish at Tokul when everybody else is trying to just snag, then float some roe under a dink float, they inhale it. Not sure how this became such a big deal.

Are you the same guy that does walk in guides on the Samish River for kings?