http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/01/...n-massacre?lite

Making law abiding citizens into criminals through legislation.

No politician would ever consider confiscation. Yeah right.
"It is well-balanced, it protects the Second Amendment," Senate Republican leader Dean Skelos of Long Island told the AP. "And there is no confiscation of weapons, which was at one time being considered.


Under the measure:

•Police would create a registry of assault weapons. Those New Yorkers who already own such weapons would be required to register their guns with the state. Current state law defines assault weapons as having two "military rifle" features, but the proposal would reduce that specification to just one feature and make the unsafe storage of assault weapons a misdemeanor..

First step to confiscate is to register.

•Private sales of assault weapons to people outside the immediate family circle would be subject to a background check and online sales of assault weapons would be banned..

If nobody in the family wants the weapon upon the owner's death, how does the estate get compensated for the sale of the item if transfers are illegal? Is the estate supposed to turn them in?

•Magazines would be restricted to seven bullets, from the current 10. Current owners of higher-capacity magazines would have a year to sell them out of state. If an owner is found to have eight or more bullets in a magazine, she could face a misdemeanor charge..
Where can I find a 7 round magazine for my Ruger Mk1, or my Springfield XD, or my HK USP, or my High Standard target pistol? Legislating to effectively make ownership and usage illegal should be a crime.



•The proposed measure would require that stolen guns be reported within 24 hours..

No issue with this provision.

•The measure would also enshrine a system through which mental health professionals would be required to report to officials when they believe their patients may harm themselves or others. In such cases, police would be allowed to confiscate any guns owned by a potentially dangerous patient.

Somewhat okay with this as proposed, but it may need to be refined somewhat to weed out false reporting.

It will be interesting to see what the US congress comes up with. NY got most of their legislation wrong. It will not achieve their goals.

Time to cowboy up.

So that I am sure I understand.....
"WE" the people are so concerned about magazines that have a capacity of ten or more, that we are going to make a law to restrict capacity to 7 and give you 1 year to sell those deadly higher capacity magazines to somebody out of state so it can be that states "Problem".......
Just checking......

One other provision that the NY legislature did get entirely right was the protection of privacy for the permitted firearms owners in NY so that the media will no longer be able to print the names of firearms owners and addresses in the paper.


I am fine with legislation that accomplishes the goal of reducing crime, but since Ney York had exactly 5 murders in 2011 committed with rifles, and 160 with knives or other cutting instruments, why would they not include knife registries in their bill?

Again, legislating the sexy item, and not necessarily what really is the issue.

Can they make a ten shot magazine legal by putting a plug in it, like we have to do with shotguns when we hunt?

Fish on...

Todd

Looks like we have two choices, either we get rid of assault weapons with high capacity magazines, or we start keeping better tabs on the crazy people who like to use them for the purpose they were designed for.

Provisions for magazine limits state specifically that the magazines may not readily be converted to higher capacity, at least that was in the 1994 AWB. I still have 4 ten round HK USP mags, and a few 10 round "20 round" AR mags. Funny thing is, that the 10 round USP mags actually hold 11, the same as the hi-capacity mags.

Illahee,

New York already had a ban on the sale or importation of high capacity magazine made after September 1994. It is currently legal to own a "pre-ban" mag, but since many mags were not marked, how can you tell?

Add to that 5 deaths out of 774 were with rifles. Not "assault rifles", but rifles as a whole. Some of the murders probably were committed with "assault weapons", so even if they all were, they account for 0.65% of all weapons used. Is this legislation really going to be effective, honestly, in your opinion?

The mental health provisions will likely save many more laws than any of the other provisions will.

Everyone that has a clue understands this has nothing to do with safety. The previous "ban" did nothing. NOTHING. This is feel good BS that pols do to say they are doing something. To say they are "protecting the children" or "getting tough on crime". All the while all they do is restrict freedoms and create more power/money/regulations/kickbacks for themselves to collect on.

It is what it is. More people in this country are ready to give up every last freedom for protection than are willing to stand up and say enough is enough.

And how outraged were you when the last administration used the Constitution for buttwipe?

not really about taking guns, but its about guns...

the NRA is now completely full of sh!t...


http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/01/...-violence?lite=

Me, pretty much disgusted with the implementation of the Homeland Security Administration, and the restrictions on our personal freedoms. I really hate the entrenched parties on both sides.

So how it a target practice application a violent game? Target practice is never a violent affair for me. Hunting, absolutely violent.

Just downloaded it, BTW. thanks!

never said it was violent, albeit using weapons... i said the NRA is full of sh!t, because a couple weeks ago, they said that video games are part of the problem... then they go and make a video game, in which you can use "assault weapons" for "practice"... what are you practicing? how on dear gods earth, are you "practicing" your shooting skills on a video game?

you arent, its horsesh!t, just like the NRA...

and i play a few "violent" video games, and have yet to shoot or even think about shooting someone unless it was justified and my life was in danger (thought, didnt do)... so again, they are full of sh!t...

if people playing video games, get the wild hair up their ass to go shoot people becasue thats what they were doing on the TV, we are back to square 1, and the only square that needs to be addressed...



they are fvckin nuts, and need help, period...

The funny part is that the NRA tells the chumps who send them membership money that it's not guns, it's everything but guns, including movies and video games that glorify gun violence...and then they put out an app where you shoot guns...and not just at targets, or bullseyes, but at COFFINS, you know, the boxes that dead people go in.

Dumbasses. When will the millions of people who send them money realize that the NRA is the gun and ammo industry's political wing and realize that they don't care one bit about you and me?

Fish on...

Todd

I think you are projecting just a little too much. I am not a fan of the NRA, just providing a little reality check, as I usually do.

The NRA really likes scared sheepeople.

Dog, im just getting sick and tired of people blaming other stuff besides the root of the problem... i could kill you just as easy and just as dead at 100 yards away with a 45-120 Sharps, as i could with an 5.56/.223 AR-15... actually, we should push that to 300 yards away... its not the guns, its not the games, its not the media, it surely isnt Obama, its mental health, flat out, plain and simple...

lowering the amount a gun mag can hold, wont do anything either, people will just carry more mags... my dad used to carry a spare mag with the Kimber... why? i dont know, but it was his choice, and you couldnt tell anyways... its really not that hard to do...

they say that mags with a certian number of bullets are more deadly and more dangerous than ones with less....

ive got 1 answer for that horsesh!t right there...

tell that to the nearly 1 million people that died in the Civil War... case closed...

Actually they are man shaped/sized targets, not coffins. Did you download it also? The game is best played in a swivel chair. Swing on by the next time you are in the Harbor. We'll shoot some subsonic rounds out of my suppressed AR-15.

Keerist, the ' let's make some feel good laws' bunch is really stirred up.
But that's normal for the ones that like to call names and so forth.
Fools and dumbchits are their usual banter vocabulary.
I pay my NRA dues and wish I could give them a Million or two.
One of the few organizations that actually does a bit of work in the
courts rather than like some of the citizens, just bitch and moan.
Those of you that are willing to sell your freedoms for a bit of ersatz
security deserve what you get.

Let 'r roll.

all the talk is about clips but my henery 22 mag holds10 or more shots so is it ok under this law? also do they make a 7 shot clip for a ruger mkIII? mine are all 10 shot

They didn't think of that.

Magazines folks, not clips. Please do your best to sound educated on the subject.

Also, the law that was just passed is in New York State, not the entire US, just one very screwed up state, so Larry, you are fine for the moment. Still feeling comfortable about the upcoming proposed nantional legislation now, Larry? You shouldn't be.

A Garand uses "clip en bloc's". Stripper clips are sometimes used to load AR magazines, or to load a Mauser, Springfield '03, or an SKS internal box "magazine".



There really is a difference.

Thank you Andy. That is one of my biggest pet peeves.

Bullet is another.

can we still call suppressors , silencers?

If high capacity magazines don't make it easier to kill more people than tell me why they were invented in the first place.

plus cans and moderators. All acceptable colloquial terms based upon your location or upbringing.

A magazine contains a spring and follower for feeding a round through the body of the magazine so it can then be chambered.

A clip is a strip of metal with essentially no moving parts. (AR and some .308/7.62x51 clips are comprised of two or more pieces of metal)

Whitman used guns that didnt hold more than 6 rounds (pistols excluded)...

magazine capacity what?

They sure as heck can make it easier, but they were invented to reduce the overall load out of the average soldier. Instead of 12 mags for a 240 rd battle load out, they carry 8 (or more). AR's/M16 started being issued to some troops with 20 rd mags. That was soon changed to 30.

Someone with a reasonable amounty of training can do a mag change, or tactical mag change in a matter of 1-2 seconds. Tactical's take longer.

My duty weapon held 11 rounds of .40 S&W. I had 2 additional mags at all times minimum. During training classes I carried as many as 6. I kept right up with the guys shooting G22's and G23's, both in round count, time, and accuracy. Limit me to 1 round mags, and yeah, that would make a difference.

Someone intent on doing harm to others will generally succeed, regardless of the law or limitations on weapon choices.

Or so you don't have to reload so much.

The last administration screwed us, this administration is screwing us, and the next one will most likely Fuk us too..

They sure as heck can make it easier, but they were invented to reduce the overall load out of the average soldier. Instead of 12 mags for a 240 rd battle load out, they carry 8 (or more). AR's/M16 started being issued to some troops with 20 rd mags. That was soon changed to 30.

Someone with a reasonable amounty of training can do a mag change, or tactical mag change in a matter of 1-2 seconds. Tactical's take longer.

My duty weapon held 11 rounds of .40 S&W. I had 2 additional mags at all times minimum. During training classes I carried as many as 6. I kept right up with the guys shooting G22's and G23's, both in round count, time, and accuracy. Limit me to 1 round mags, and yeah, that would make a difference.

Someone intent on doing harm to others will generally succeed, regardless of the law or limitations on weapon choices.


One thousand one, one thousand two....you must be real quick. Where were you pulling your extra mags from during your controlled environment training exercise? I doubt your average physco walking through a public place is going to be able to duplicate what a trained professional is able to do in a training exercise. Besides I would take the 1-2 seconds it took physco to reload over the time it would take to pull the trigger one more time.

Your guys arguments that high capacity mags don't matter hold about as much water as bucket blasted to sh!t with a weapon loaded with one.

Where do "tube fed" rifles fit in all this?

they dont count, they dont hold that many rounds, arent black, and dont/cant kill as many people... they arent even considered guns... guns are black, with a bunch of plastic sh!t on them, they have high based front sites, or no sites at all, and have these big bad homing laser sights on them that can make bullets turn corners and hit in the eye... guns also use magazines, and have a pistol grip ...

im kidding, i dont see them messing with them tho... cuz banning 1894 Winchesters because they hold too many rounds would be a stupid choice on their part...

i thought this was interesting ....

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/07/mass-shootings-map

Things can change in a split second so I'd want every last one I could get. It could make a difference for someone someday. There will always be shootings....I just think we have to try to make it harder to kill so many so easily.

Obviously there needs to be alot more focus on the treatment of mental illness but there are probably more people with mental health issues than there are guns.
Assualt weapons and high capacity mags are just the low hanging fruit.

To repeat myself, out of 700+ murders in NY state, 5 were commited with "Any type of rifle". 160 with knives, yet they go after primarily rifles.

This is the same state where police officers wounded 9 or more civilians taking down one criminal who had killed one individual.

I'm supposed to expect the State (insert any government police force) to protect me from a criminal. Yeah right.

Molon Labe.

Dogfish, enquiring minds want to know. How were the other 535+ murders committed in NY State? I can't imagine they were all baseball bats, rocks, and chokings.

Roughly 330 were commited without the use of a firearm.

And that right there about sums it up.....

23 executive orders signed today. It will be interesting to see what is in there.

Give me Liberty or give me Death. Wonder what Patrick Henry would say about the current government edicts.

The orders he signed today are all very succinct and unambiguous, and I like them...Here's the list:

1. "Issue a presidential memorandum to require federal agencies to make relevant data available to the federal background check system."

2. "Address unnecessary legal barriers, particularly relating to the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act, that may prevent states from making information available to the background check system."

3. "Improve incentives for states to share information with the background check system."

4. "Direct the attorney general to review categories of individuals prohibited from having a gun to make sure dangerous people are not slipping through the cracks."

5. "Propose rulemaking to give law enforcement the ability to run a full background check on an individual before returning a seized gun."

6. "Publish a letter from ATF to federally licensed gun dealers providing guidance on how to run background checks for private sellers."

7. "Launch a national safe and responsible gun ownership campaign."

8. "Review safety standards for gun locks and gun safes (Consumer Product Safety Commission)."

9. "Issue a presidential Memorandum to require federal law enforcement to trace guns recovered in criminal investigations."

10. "Release a DOJ report analyzing information on lost and stolen guns and make it widely available to law enforcement."

11. "Nominate an ATF director."

12. "Provide law enforcement, first responders, and school officials with proper training for active shooter situations."

13. "Maximize enforcement efforts to prevent gun violence and prosecute gun crime."

14. "Issue a presidential memorandum directing the Centers for Disease Control to research the causes and prevention of gun violence."

15. "Direct the attorney general to issue a report on the availability and most effective use of new gun safety technologies and challenge the private sector to develop innovative technologies."

16. "Clarify that the Affordable Care Act does not prohibit doctors asking their patients about guns in their homes."

17. "Release a letter to health care providers clarifying that no federal law prohibits them from reporting threats of violence to law enforcement authorities."

18. "Provide incentives for schools to hire school resource officers."

19. "Develop model emergency response plans for schools, houses of worship and institutions of higher education."

20. "Release a letter to state health officials clarifying the scope of mental health services that Medicaid plans must cover."

21. "Finalize regulations clarifying essential health benefits and parity requirements within ACA exchanges."

22. "Commit to finalizing mental health parity regulations."

23. "Launch a national dialogue led by Secretaries Sebelius and Duncan on mental health."

Here they are.

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/MSNBC/Sectio...ive-Actions.pdf

I don't have any issue with any of the EO's as they stand by themselves. The implementation of these directives should still be scrutinized.

Found a few a little interesting.
4. Direct the Attorney General to review categories of individuals prohibited from having a gun to make sure dangerous people are not slipping through the cracks.

9. Issue a Presidential Memorandum to require federal law enforcement to trace guns recovered in criminal investigations.

So why again is our President claiming executive privilege to protect Eric Holder, the Attorney General, from an investigation to his departments actions of Fast and Furious, especially when you look at these two items? Not trying to be like paste eater, but really, if he wishes to live up to his campaign promise of being a transparent administration, why not air it out?

All I am seeing is more tax dollars being spent on feel good projects....

None of this will make a difference in the amount of criminals that have illegal guns.....

Have you ever done a quick mag change? I can do one in less than 5 seconds an about any weapon that has a magazine.

Judging by your comments, you have no or little experience dealing with guns with clips.

BTW, most of these nut jobs practiced before there sprees, except the Clackamas mall idiot who had no idea what his weapon was capable of.

Sorry, the problem is not guns or magazines, its dumbfuks.

amen

DF, mark my words...NY will be another Chicago in 5 years or less.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/nra-h...--politics.html

On the surface the executive orders seem innocuous. As always the truth will lie in the details and the implementation of the E.O.'s.

Unfortunately President Obama has given me little reason to be sanguine.

Hows this for timing? Barry must be livid.


A brief update from a Republican Insider fighting to renew conservative principles and defeat the globalist Big Government liberalism of Barack Obama and his supporters.



(“Like a spoiled brat he can’t believe he had to scrap the original speech for today’s version.”)


_____________________________

Like me you were probably watching the president’s gun control speech today. Was told this morning the presentation today was a revised version that was completed just last night after a bunch of back and forth between the White House and Senate leaders. Guessing that would be Harry Reid mostly. Last week the president was ready to go all in on the executive order scenario. Confiscation was going to be in play. Then the backlash came and it forced Obama to back off. He didn’t want to but after Reid said it was a no go, and the NRA was preparing to go to war with the White House, the president was given a revised script and that is what we heard this morning. You could tell too. Obama stumbled over the words more than usual. He didn’t have the time to prep the script like he normally does. Probably fuming he was forced to read the new version also.

This time WE WON and OBAMA LOST.

If people want to know how to go at the administration, this is how you do it. Be informed, and make your voices heard. This is an example of how the new media I have been telling you about can work against the globalists. It can be a huge weapon against them. And a big thank you to the NRA. It took on Obama and didn’t back off. A big part of the plan coming from the White House was to cripple the NRA and make it a liability for 2014 and beyond. That didn’t work and it will be a liability, but one that is going to hurt Democrats, not conservatives. Big time backfire for the Obama White House. I was told it “rocked them on their heels”. They fundamentally don’t understand the American people and they didn’t see this backlash coming. They have the media, and the glossy presentations, but they don’t really understand the American people and this debate was a pure example of that being played out. I love it!


Now from here it’s clear Obama wants to try and use the issue as leverage for the 2014 midterms. They are hoping they can salvage something out of what became a fiasco for them. I just don’t sense enough Democrats willing to play along on this one though. Apparently the NRA and some other groups were lining up primary challengers to Democrats who went along with the president’s gun control plans and letting those Democrats know it was coming. That scared the heck out of them. Barack Obama is entering his lame duck phase, and the Democrats know it. After 2014 he becomes a museum piece. The president knows that too and it’s really ticking him off. We have to rub that in his face 24/7 while also building the conservative base back up into the kind of powerful entity it should be. Congrats to the state governments that were willing to voice opposition too. They did that and took on a lot of risk. Heard a list is being made and federal dollars might be taken away from them. Those state leaders knew that could happen but took on the administration anyways. That’s real leadership and courage being put on display for all of us and voters living in those states need to let those leaders know it is appreciated. You know how I feel about how important the 10th Amendment is, and today was also a big victory for the 10th Amendment against the Obama White House.

When people get involved, and make some noise, they still have the power. Use the new media, contact the lawmakers both state and federal, and talk to the people around you. That is power. That is what makes America so great and that is what happened today.

The president had his little moment, and was pretending it meant something, but he said nothing. That 21 (23) point plan or whatever it was, was hollow. It was a gutted version of what he was hoping to do as recently as a few days ago. Instead, he had to roll over and made a weak threat to Congress but that threat starts in the Senate and they already told him to shut up. Obama backed off. He lost this time, and it was all because of the American people. His media will try to spin it as something different, and if he gets another chance, the president will be right back to pushing for confiscation, but for now, we won this particular fight.

This victory is a lot bigger than you’ll hear in the regular media. It’s a lot bigger than anyone who stood their ground will ever know about. The Obama White House was trying to go very big on this gun control thing, and couldn’t pull it off. And Barack Obama is livid about it. Like a spoiled brat he can’t believe he had to scrap the original speech for today’s version.

Today was a great day for the good guys. Of course, there’s always another fight just around the corner, so we have to be ready. Let your readers know they did a great job on this. Each of them were a part of forcing the president to back off. Let’s do it again!

Just like the Liberal sheeples do!!!
What you may like & feel is 180* from many on the other side of the fence so deal with it, they have the same rights as you...

Sol Dunce, if you believe almost anything in that "insider piece" then you, too, should order up a ration of tinfoil hats. What a load of shitt.

Fish on...

Todd

Sol Duc, keepin' the Paranoia Real!

Amazing that someone as scared as Illahee and asking for bans of weapons and government protection would not see the hypocrisy in calling people who want less govern BS "scared Sheeple".

Just remember Illahee.....Everyone is out to get you. The govern said so. Those long lines at the airpost......Your protection. Phone taps.....Protection. Regulations.....Your protection. All the BS is to protect you. Same with these new bans and EO's.....Your protection.

Wasn't it Franklin that said "those who give up freedoms for security will have neither"?

yep, it was Franklin doc...

George Washington said this:

A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to mantain a status of independance from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include thier own government...

Hey Einstein,

Bush, whose balls you were scrubbing all the time, put the TSA in place and grew the governemnt more than it has every been grown before.

Where was your outrage then?

Illahee served this country in uniform..........apparently he wasn't too scared to grab a weapon then. Maybe you'd like to compare service records?

Include yours Dan S.

Pot, meet Kettle.

Rather surprised that your response was an "all in" to the EO's. Not even a reserved response.

The expert on shitt speaks.

Your absolutely right I don't have alot of experience with semiautomatic weapons, I've been around a few but I never saw need for one. I'm just a guy who grew up with shotguns and rifles and a few revolvers. I did buy a .40 Springfield XDM last year to keep under the pillow.

I think that keeping a close eye on the df's out there that have access to weapons would be a much more affective approach than trying to gather up peoples assault weapons. But I don 't think thats going to happen.

Uh, I'm no kettle in the Paranoia game.
Regarding the EO's, that may have been a bit quick on the trigger. Now that I read what the new legislation will cost, I am not in support.. I see Obama was happy to increase spending A TON in support these new orders. At some point you have to ask yourself if DC is purposely driving us off a cliff....but I dont ask those questions here, because then I'd be labled Paranoid by half of you

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/least-45-billion-new-spending-gun-control_696120.html

Among the new spending the president proposed:

• $4 billion for the president’s proposal “to help keep 15,000 cops on the streets in cities and towns across the country.” (That is roughly $266,000 per police officer.)

• $20 million to “give states stronger incentives to make [relevant] data available [for background checks] … “$50 million for this purpose in FY2014”

• “$14 million to help train 14,000 more police officers and other public and private personnel to respond to active shooter situations.”

• “$10 million for the Centers for Disease Control to conduct further research, including investigating the relationship between video games, media images, and violence.”

• $20 million to expand the National Violent Death Reporting System.

• $150 million to “put up to 1,000 new school resource officers and school counselors on the job.”
• “$30 million of one-time grants to states to help their school districts develop and implement emergency management plans.”

• $50 million to help 8,000 schools “create safer and more nurturing school climates.”

• $15 million to “provide “Mental Health First Aid” training for teachers.”

• $40 million for school districts to “work with law enforcement, mental health agencies, and other local organizations to assure students with mental health issues or other behavioral issues are referred to the services they need.”

• $25 million for state-based strategies that support “young people ages 16 to 25 with mental health or substance abuse issues.”

• $25 million to “offer students mental health services for trauma or anxiety, conflict resolution programs, and other school-based violence prevention strategies.”

• $50 million to “train social workers, counselors, psychologists, and other mental health professionals.”

Psssst, Don't tell anyone but I'm afraid it would be more that half.

But not to worry, the best of the board realizes that your quip was tongue in cheek.

Really? Keeping an eye on me? Whatever for? I'm a banker, live fairly clean, been president of my school board, ran a bond levy for my kids school, hobby farmer, good father and husband, I have proposed legislation and saw it passed, even shook the governor's hand after she signed it. Pillar of the community, I am. No really, I am. How often, either openly or behind the scenes have I helped folks here and asked for nothing in return? More than probably 99% of the folks here. Don't mean to brag. It is just the facts.

When you need help protecting your rights, let me know. Oh wait, keeping you apprised of the situation at hand, and letting you know that you may wish to stock up on your 16rd mags before they are legislated out of reach might be considered being helpful. Also, as a bit of safety advice, bedside table or a quick safe would be a better option than under your pillow. Would hate to see a ND take out a fellow fisherman..

Take care, I wish you well.

You renegade!!!

+infinity Dogfish is the Salt of the Earth.

Yeah.............if you have a problem with Andy, I gotta tell ya, it's probably you that's not thinking it through all the way.

Stam is right. I too am better for it.

Doing things out of pocket for people he does not even know is what Dogfish is all about. All of us Lewis County Regulars are enriched by his presence in the next County over.

Thank you Andy for who you are and what you do.

Well, what I read originally that was going to be proposed or EO'd was drastically different than what was signed.

I was all prepared to ask Todd if he considered it "gun grabbing" since he has been so adamant about there never being a gun grab.
As yet I think there is not......what the future will bring.....???
So I'll table the question until later.

http://youtu.be/IxUaIdiUUrI

Shenanigans that were narrowly avoided in NY this week. Check out the time around minute 4. NY was considering confiscation.

I have never met you personally, but if you ever want to fish the columbia or willamette, PM me and the seat is yours. It'd be an honor to have you in my boat.

I am pro-gun. However, I agreed with a lot of the 23 "orders" from Obummer even though i think he's a dam nub. Should have been a vote through Congress... I strongly disagree however with most of the "proposals" which includes a ban on mags holding over 10 rounds and a AWB. Thankfully, those are the 2 least likely to get passed. I want prices to go back to "semi" normal.

In a self defense situation i want the MOST rounds available. The two guns i carry most of the time both hold over 10 rounds and one is a compact... The last AWB did nothing and there used in less than 1% of gun violence/crime. They are however used on a daily basis for hunting, target shooting/competitive shooting, training classes and for personal defense. For every 1 unfortunate mass shooting with a AR-15, there used hundreds to several thousands of times for self defense... A buddy in AZ a few weeks ago shot two home burglars with a AR-15.

Perhaps it's time to consider another self imposed bann again KK, and if you do please remember that you will be missed, ?

Every FTF gun deal I've ever done, the buyer bettter have a valid WDL in addition to a CCW. Or they don't get a gun from me.

Same here... Good rule to have!

http://youtu.be/lmPCRJJFlKA

Same assemblyman from NY discussing the issues with this legislation. Basically, the bill was released Sunday night, they voted on it Monday, and provisions as they apply to law abiding citizens took place immediately upon Cuomo signing the bill. Provisions that apply to criminals take place in 60 days. There was no opportunity to review the legislation, nor the opportunity for public comment.

So Todd, yes, they intend to come after my firearms unless myself and others, especially our elected officials, stand up and fight and do not cower in a corner.

I can only hope that our elected officials will be as brutally honest as Steve McLaughlin, defend our rights as they are today, and do not make us criminals through legislation.

Todd is looking pretty stupid at this point, he needs to STFU already!

I like Todd, and don't see the need to talk to him that way. Pointing out specific facts has a much more profound effect.

I really would like to see the proposals that were not included in that NY legislation, along with the names of the reps/senators who were pushing for confiscation.

Mclaughlin owned that jackass...

Pot
Kettle
Black

None of my comments went meant to be directed at you Dog. Sorry if it sounded like that. I was refering to peope who have real mental illness and access to weapons, like the kid in Conneticut. The kid was obviously competely crazy and his mom has all these guns available to him. I'm not saying she shouldn't have the right to own those guns. But that is a situation that needs very close monitoring by mental health and others at a minimum.

You say that the high capacity mags don't matter but then you tell me to run out and stock up on them before its too late?

And you don't need to worry about my safety...the "under my pillow" comment was meant as figuratively not literaly.

You mentioned murder statistics in New York in an earlier post and how the majority were commited without guns. But every recent mass killing has been commited with semi-automatic weapons and that is what people are worried about. Mass shootings resulting in mass killings.

You're about as stupid as they come and needed to STFU about five years ago.

Last I checked Andy didn't live in New York State, so no one will be grabbing his guns.

Fish on...

Todd

Those executive orders strike me as pretty harmless to the cause of gun rights. They also strike me as being generally meaningless and "touchy-feely." I share SkyGuy's assessment that this all amounts to an enormous mis-allocation of precious funds. Like most legislation (and executive orders, for that matter), I suspect the real reason these orders are being implemented is to provide an opportunity for politicians to earmark funds for the special interests that got them elected. In my opinion, while they may appeal to the emotional side of the People that makes us hell-bent on finding solutions to problems that can't be solved, these measures will do very little to prevent future shootings. They will, on the other hand, invest money we don't have in areas that won't solve real problems.

Meanwhile, conveniently, the gun control issue has provided our elected officials yet another excuse to avoid the work most of would agree they should be doing; that of fixing the economy.

Maybe it is me but your comments do not make a lot of sense. You think that we need to have less access to semiautomatic weapons and high capicity magazines. You also state that you have never had a use for a semiautomatic weapon but yet you recently purchased one for home security.

I was hoping that the df in your post was directed at "dumfuks" and not andy. thanks for clearing that up. the "high capacity" magazine issue seems to be your main point, and there are other things to consider when defining what "high capacity" is. for instance, i need to get a new mag for my 22/45 target pistol, as I'm having feeding issues. the weapon was designed around a single stack 10 rd magazine. there are no other options. is this a high cap mag?? if your pillow pistol is anything other than a pocket gun or a sub compact single stack or a 1911 it is likely that you have a "high capacity" magazine. just a few thoughts...


willy

Sorry about me misunderstanding because to me df = dogfish. Possibly you meant dumb fuk? If that's the case, no harm, no foul.

On the high capacity mag issue, that is just me being courteous and helpful, as I usually am here. Do you see me laying into people here, as others do? No. Good luck finding some. I've had a bitch of a time finding 13rd XD .45 mags.

There was a guy who just shot his girlfriend while camping this week where he placed his pistol under his pillow, and it went off. (ND = negligent discharge) Glad to know you are safer than that. I was concerned because of your limited firearms experience.

Again, you and I differ on what effective legislation is. With NY passing a ban on these rifles after 5 total rifles were used, again no breakdown on what types of rifles, in 774 murders, I just don't see a logical correlation between the two actions. Legislation should not be proposed based upon emotion. Trotting those kids out on stage, pure showmanship.

Todd, let's review your stance after we see Diane's bill, and others, hit the media on Tuesday. There were a lot of shocked NewYorkers on Tuesday when they went to go shoot a round of trap, only to find that a background check was required to buy any sort of ammo, including trap and skeet rounds. They thought that since they were Fudds (as in Elmer Fudd), and had no need for evil black rifles that the legislation didn't apply to them. Turkey hunters who use shotguns with pistol grips, and target shooters with thumbhole stocks also were hit, quite unexpectedly. The devil is in the details, interpretation, and implementation.

Are you coming to the march on the State Capital on Saturday? Hope to see you there since you are also a gun owner. Just got the approval for another can on Monday, the .22LR one. Should have the stamp and can in hand by Friday or Tuesday. Offer still stands for a little shooting quiet.

I'd love to when I'm down your way some time, Andy. House shopping this weekend

Fish on...

Todd

I don't usually "LOL", but I will for this one. LOL!

Good luck Todd.

What's a continuom?

Oh crap! Now I have to tell my wife we need to turn in her squirrel shootin' Daisy Red Ryder I bought her for our anniversary last year. I do not want to have this conversation.

Luv the journalist's guide!

Hey Andy, who, what, when, where on Sat.?

Sg

x2.

Lmao...that was a good one.
Andy do we wear are evil black rifles?

SG, The info is here.
http://www.piscatorialpursuits.com/forum...html#Post815140

I'm parking at the DNR building and walking over to the Capital Bldg. Noon is when it starts. I'll probably be there around 11:30 or so.

Rossiman, I'm not the type of guy who invites "The Man" into my life, so I won't be there open carrying a pistol, or a rifle. You can be assured that I will have a pistol on me though. I'll leave that choice up to you.

If any of you do go, please dress appropriately, and if you are not articulate (the test is knowing what articulate means, without looking it up) please don't talk to the media. The media is not our friend on this issue, and they will look for the most ignorant asshole to interview. Trust me.

Dogfish I'm just messing around. I don't open carry nor am I one of those dudes who tries to get confronted by cops. I do conceal carry everyday but never open carry unless I'm fishing/hunting/in the woods, then its a G20 on my hip with handloads.
Im sure there will be tons of dudes open carrying/doing that. They can be the ones looking like a fool as they have there rifle slinged on there back.

Open carry you loose your biggest advantage. The element of surprise. I don't want a criminal knowing I'm armed until out comes my gun and my laser lights up there chest, in return hopefully making a grown man chit his pants in fear/making him rethink
his occupation.. That may be the last thing a criminal ever see's.

Good fodder Rossi

Open carry = get drilled first

KK you got me confused for a gun toting far right conservative, batchit crazy redneck. Definitely not that...Just your average gun owner/shooting enthusiast. You wont see me open carrying, toting a rifle around or trying to get attention by the media or confronted by the cops. I laugh at those idiots... I conceal carry and do NOT want to draw ANY unwanted attention to myself especially if i need to use my firearm in a self defense situation. I don't want a bad guy knowing who he should shoot/pistol whip first...
As far as a civil war, lets hope it NEVER comes to that. Im not a guy who's looking to pick a fight with the goverment... However, I'm also not a guy who's going to sit back on the sideline and let a Government trample on my rights. I hope the House, Senate and Pro gun Republicans and Democrats stand up and fight for the 2nd Amendment right like millions of us gun owners are doing.

As far as my comment on the laser/concealed carry issue, I was talking about having to draw your gun in a self defense situation. I dont know what the hell you thought i was talking about... Now, on to the amusing side. I have heard stories of robbers/carjackers/etc literally chitting there pants in fear, after having a concealed carry holder draw there firearm and point the laser center mass at there chest...
Reread my edited post above, it might make more sense...


I plan on hopefully going to the event. I dont plan on strapping a freaking AR-15 on my back or walking around with a handgun in a dam shoulder holster or on my hip in plain view. There will be plenty of those guys already doing that. They can draw the media/LEO's attention and look like a dumbass. There hurting are cause, not helping it...
I hope the media interviews guys like Andy, Randy, etc that have brains and can intellectually carry on a conversation while showing what 95% of gun owners are like. Average American citizens.

Exactly. Now the bad guy(s) knows who to shoot first or who to hold at gunpoint while his buddy comes up and pistol whips your ass and takes your own gun from ya... I wanna look like your average "innocent" Joe Schmoe. A "non threat" to him/her. If i ever have to intervene in a situation I want to overwhelmingly surprise the bad guy(s) by force if its tactically feasable/worth it to intervene. Wearing a gun in plain direct view does not accomplish that IMO. Your relying on the deterrent factor of the gun and for the criminal to get cold feet/scared because he see's someone is "armed". It may work, or it may get you shot depending on how commited they are... In all of the defensive pistol/CCW classes I have attended over the last few years, not one instructor has EVER advocated open carrying. In fact a few "open carriers" where converted once they got done with the class and saw the tactical disadvantage of someone knowing your armed. Alot of people get really edgy seeing someone armed. I dont want to be confronted by the police cause some guy/girl felt threatened...
There where two really good threads a while back on the benefits/cons of both Open/Concealed Carry: BOTH sides had good and valid points. One was on M4carbine and the other I beleive was on Lightfighter.

Cant wait for this Spring. Advanced handgun course with Larry Vickers and Rob Leatham in Phoenix, AZ. Its going to be a blast!
Larry Vickers is one of the baddest dudes on the planet and is one hell of an instructor. I think there are a few spots still open aswell if anyone is interested. This will be the first time exclusively training with him. However, when i took Ken Hackathorn's Pistol/Low light shooting class last year he was there helping Ken demonstrate some techniques and the benefits of CTC laser grips and how to tactically employ a weapon light/handheld in a gunfight or self defense encounter. I highly recommend both Hackathorn and Vicker. There both top notch instructors who have to be booked way in advance...

Anybody here read Sam Harris' articles on the Newtown shooting and gun control? I guess he's best known for his atheist books, but he's articulate and presents a thoughtful and logical piece on these important topics. Good stuff.

Sg

So what you're saying is that the NRA condemns him as a commie?

Fish on...

Todd

Got a link? I actually think before I respond.

Naw Todd, but they might condemn him for being an athiest.

Andy, I'll look for a linky thing. That's on the list of computer thingies I haven't mastered.

Highly recommended no matter what side of the issue you are on:

http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/the-riddle-of-the-gun

Follow-up article answering critics of the first: http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/faq-on-violence

The site has links to more articles.

Sg

I don't believe the NRA will condemn Mr. Harris for being an atheist, as I have not been able to find an NRA position on atheism.

The article was interesting and well written. However I find his view of the second amendment somewhat troubling, and not supported by Supreme Court decisions.

I cruised thru them pretty quick, but didn't see much at all about the Second Amendment...which part are you referring to?

Fish on...

Todd

"In fact, it can be easily argued that original intent of the Second Amendment had nothing to do with the right of self-defense—which remains the ethical case to be made for owning a firearm. The amendment seems to have been written to allow the states to check the power of the federal government by maintaining their militias."

The above came from a paragraph about 3/4 of the way through the article.
I agree with the first sentence, in that the matter has been often argued his second sentence can also "be easily argued" however recent SCOTUS decisions appear to be in conflict with the authors interpretation of the Second Amendment.

Thanks for the links to Sam's articles. I have to say I am fairly well alligned with the basic idea of what he is presenting. My interpretation of this is that we are each responsible for our own personal security, and those in our immediate surroundings.

Washington's constitution is rather clear, and since I live here, this the standard that I am most concerned with. Section 24 of the constitution reads as follows:

SECTION 24 RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS. The right of the individual citizen to bear arms in defense of himself, or the state, shall not be impaired, but nothing in this section shall be construed as authorizing individuals or corporations to organize, maintain or employ an armed body of men.

This specifically gives rights to the individuals within our state, but backs away somewhat from the idea of a "militia" that is contained in the second amendment. Thats fine. I'm am not formal member of any formal militia except that I am of miltary age, and a male.

you all need to read this, all of it is dead on, and its by Ronnie Barrett himself...

http://newyorkcityguns.com/2012/09/an-op...-ca-50-cal-ban/

"but nothing in this section shall be construed as authorizing individuals or corporations to organize, maintain or employ an armed body of men."

While it could apply to a militia, when I first read that it seemed to imply an individual or corp having a private army.

with the 5 teens shot in New Orleans yesterday on MLK Blvd and this shooting at the college in Texas just a bit ago....

Houston, weve got problems...

all of this stuff is only going to make things worse...

There are shootings on a regular basis. With 8,500 firearms murders every year, that is about 23/day. As tragic as it is for the victims and their loved ones, it is half of what it was 20 years ago.

Of 14,000 murders and manslaughter cases, 9,700 happened in metropolitan areas, cities over 100,000 and the immediate vicinity. 69%.

More guns per capita in rural areas with a much lower murder rate.

Chicago is the model for gun control.

Looks like Thursday is when Feinstein will introduce her bill.

That bitch made me buy 5 over-priced mags today.

Classic!!!

It's even hard to find .22 LR Glad I have 10k rounds of CCI..oh yeah, oh yeah.

What did you pay?

I'm not going to rush in and buy firearms, or accessories for my firearms at inflated prices in this heated atmosphere. While I doubt that the Progressives possess the the backers that they would need to cause much damage to the 2nd Amendment, I find that the traction that the ever-present and unified message from leftist politicos and media has gained with the populace, alarming.

I will be watching Ms. Feinstein's proposed bill will with great interest.

I've always wanted to try NTMHG mags from Okay Industries Hartford, CT
Same plant makes Colt mags.
Paid $25 each which is 2.5x normal cost.

JFC

That's a good price in this enviroment. I'm down in Clackamas fishing, the two local gun shops are out of almost everything.

is he fvckin retarded or what?

PM? Hardly, more like DiFi.

The problem with auto loaders is that they are efficient consumers of cartridges ,



and that combined with the nonsensical gun policy being pursued by the left, has led to the empty shelves shown in Hanks post. I read somewhere that a gun-shop had an image of our beloved leader, Mr Barrack H. Obama with a caption underneath that proclaimed, Our salesman of the year.