Check

 

Defiance Boats!

LURECHARGE!

THE PP OUTDOOR FORUMS

Kast Gear!

Power Pro Shimano Reels G Loomis Rods

  Willie boats! Puffballs!

 

Three Rivers Marine

 

 
Page 169 of 171 < 1 2 ... 167 168 169 170 171 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#1061100 - 12/01/22 05:55 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET *** [Re: eyeFISH]
FISH'N BRASS Offline
Parr

Registered: 04/25/02
Posts: 46
Loc: U. PLACE, WA
In case there are more dumbasses like me who thought the Dec 1-16 extension was an extension of the Nov emergency change which allowed 2 adults-1 that could be wild-WRONG- Dec rules as printed in regs now apply. Was educated this am by game warden who was courteous and polite in the process. No pain-no foul!

Top
#1061102 - 12/01/22 07:04 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
Lifter99 Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 12/01/18
Posts: 220
Whether opportunity on the Satsop was lost or taken away (as RG stated) the result was the same.The trib fishermen got screwed by WDFW as far as coho are concerned. I am a bank angler and I guess we bankies are the "redheaded step children".

Top
#1061110 - 12/02/22 04:32 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: Lifter99]
FleaFlickr02 Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/28/09
Posts: 3249
Originally Posted By: Lifter99
Whether opportunity on the Satsop was lost or taken away (as RG stated) the result was the same.The trib fishermen got screwed by WDFW as far as coho are concerned. I am a bank angler and I guess we bankies are the "redheaded step children".


You're more or less right. That said, if you were a fish manager, would you be more hesitant to restrict opportunity for bank fishers or boaters? No question, boaters spend (and generate) more $ when they fish.

To be clear, I'm not saying I like it (I'm generally a bankie, too), but when you govern from a perspective of which user groups generate the most economic activity in a fee and use-based tax system like ours, you must favor that which generates the most fee and tax revenues.....

Top
#1061111 - 12/02/22 04:53 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
Carcassman Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 6957
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
In my mind, and what guided me in management, is that you can't call yourself a manager until you can put the needs of the fish and the needs of the ecosystem ahead of your personal preferences. I was am outlier.

Top
#1061112 - 12/02/22 05:02 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: FleaFlickr02]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4147
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
I am not aware of any directives be it legislative or agency that directs WDFW to provide seasons to the citizens of the greatest means, wealth if you prefer. That said one could make a good argument that is exactly what they do.
_________________________
Dazed and confused.............the fog is closing in

Top
#1061113 - 12/02/22 06:38 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
Carcassman Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 6957
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
I think they believe that they are directed to maintain the economic well-being of the user groups. Can't recall the exact words but I think there is an economic driver to what they do. That is likely one of the drivers for MSY, which is simply a maximize profit model.

Top
#1061115 - 12/03/22 07:01 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
Lifter99 Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 12/01/18
Posts: 220
Not everyone can afford a boat be it sled or drift boat (me included). But it seems you have to have the means to afford a boat to get a fair shake with WDFW. I remember I attended a meeting on Puget Sound salmon fishing quite a few years ago . The meeting was for ways to enhance salmon fishing in the Sound. Some of the attendees complained about the salmon fishing opportunities in Puget Sound vs the Ocean and how the seasons were much better out on the coast. The fellow from WDFW said that the Puget Sound anglers would just have to buy bigger boats and fish the ocean if they wanted better fishing opportunities. The attendees said not all people can afford a boat to fish the ocean. The WDFW just kind of said too bad.

Top
#1061116 - 12/03/22 07:33 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: Lifter99]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4147
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
A guy I went to school with had a discussion with Mr. Anderson years back about the lack of real seasons for Chehalis fresh water anglers. His response was he should go fishing on a charter boat if he wanted more fishing opportunity. It has been a decade or so since that conversation but nothing has changed that I can see.
_________________________
Dazed and confused.............the fog is closing in

Top
#1061117 - 12/03/22 07:36 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
Carcassman Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 6957
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
I had a discussion with a WDFW bio about the proposal to restore coho in the Yakima. A strong coho population would reduce the resident trout. I mentioned that, in that scenario, the fishery would be reduced (and that includes guides, lodging, food) but that the habitat protection requirements would remain; the landowners would just get less fishing. His response was that they could go fish Buoy 10. Personally, that's a bad trade but it does reflect the thought process.

Top
#1061118 - 12/03/22 10:42 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
Lifter99 Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 12/01/18
Posts: 220
If I remember correctly Anderson owned and ran a charter at Westport. Easy to see his thought process.

Top
#1061119 - 12/03/22 11:02 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: Rivrguy]
FleaFlickr02 Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/28/09
Posts: 3249
Originally Posted By: Rivrguy
I am not aware of any directives be it legislative or agency that directs WDFW to provide seasons to the citizens of the greatest means, wealth if you prefer. That said one could make a good argument that is exactly what they do.


Agreed. There's no legal mandate, but this is America....

Top
#1061121 - 12/04/22 08:22 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
RUNnGUN Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 1275
I remember that + - 15 years ago NSIA (NW Sportsfishing Industry Association) hired a lobbyist to educate legislators, the economic benefits of rec. fishing vs commercial to increase rec. opportunity. If those kind of influences emphasized boaters, which probably was the case, one could argue favoritism leaned toward them. Not sure if they still have a lobbyist on the payroll today.
_________________________
“Smart people only believe half of what they hear. Smarter people know which half to believe”

Top
#1061122 - 12/04/22 11:14 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
DrifterWA Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 04/25/00
Posts: 5010
Loc: East of Aberdeen, West of Mont...
12/04/2022

Dumb WDFW, allow fishers to fish Chehalis, for Coho, 12/01/ - 12/16/2022. So I thought like many others, a chance to fish, usual and accustom places, with use of my boat.

Portions of 11/30/2022 WDFW announces 2022-2023 coastal fishing season

"The upcoming season is structured similarly to last year's fishery, particularly in the Hoh River and the Willapa Bay tributaries. Some increased opportunity, relative to last season, includes an extension of late season coho fishing in select waters in the Chehalis River through Friday, Dec. 16, and increased opportunity to fish from a boat in the Sol Duc River. The season also includes added protections in the Bogachiel River. "

"Portions of the Humptulips and Chehalis rivers will open Dec. 1 to Dec. 16 to provide opportunity for coho salmon fishing while supporting steelhead conservation objectives".

I think upper WDFW personnel should be made to "bank fish" the Chehalis river for Coho December 1 - December 16 of ANY year and then give a written report on how many WILD steelhead they released and how many Coho they caught and where they even found fishable bank areas, to fish.

Bet, that whole WDFW 11/30/2022 letter, made for some chuckles around the coffee break sessions.

Additional comment.....Hoh River to rivers around Forks must be doing "things right"??????? Liberal rules, allowed boat fishing, in many areas.

WDFW needs to start doing from the Hoh River to the Chehalis water shed, the very same things to get "wild steelhead" back that quickly, 2 years, wow wow wow.
_________________________
"Worse day sport fishing, still better than the best day working"

"I thought growing older, would take longer"

Top
#1061137 - 12/06/22 05:13 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4147
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
I was asked to post up the summary for the change in the GH Escapement Goal so here it is. You might notice it it calls for an exploitation rate of 63%.


Grays Harbor Fall Chinook

Grays Harbor fall Chinook spawner escapement goal was reevaluated and changed in 2014. The new natural spawning escapement goal is 13,500 naturally spawning Chinook for Grays Harbor with 9,880 for Chehalis River and 3,620 for Humptulips River.

The Grays Harbor fall Chinook spawner escapement goal was 14,600, 12,364 Chehalis River and 2,236 Humptulips River. This goal was adopted in 1979 and was based on available spawning habitat and a spawning density of 36 fish per mile. A level of 24 fish per mile was used for the mainstem Chehalis River and all tributaries upstream of Cedar Creek, reflecting lower productive potential. This goal is defined as a natural spawning escapement goal.

The Chinook Technical Committee (CTC) is to review the biological basis for Chinook salmon management objectives under the Pacific Salmon Treaty (PSC, 2009), Chapter 3, Section 2. (b) (iv), The CTC shall “…evaluate and review existing escapement objectives that fishery management agencies have set for Chinook stocks subject to this Chapter for consistency with MSY or other agreed biologically-based escapement goals and, where needed, recommend goals for naturally spawning Chinook stocks that are consistent with the intent of this Chapter…”. The abundance-based management regime for Chinook salmon established by the 2008 Pacific Salmon Commission (PSC) is intended to sustain production at levels associated with maximum sustained yield (MSY, measured in terms of adult equivalents) over the long term. Therefore, the escapement goal for Grays Harbor fall Chinook was reevaluated based on spawner recruitment analysis.

The reevaluation of the Grays Harbor fall Chinook spawner escapement goal occurred in 2014. Three spawner-recruit functions were considered (Shepherd, Beverton-Holt, Ricker), and the Ricker model was identified as being the most appropriate form for both the Chehalis and Humptulips datasets. Brood years 1986 to 2005 were used in the analyses. In all analyses, parent generation escapement (i.e., spawners) includes both natural- and hatchery-origin fish spawning naturally. Spawner recruitment, biological based natural spawning escapement goals were developed for Chehalis and Humptulips rivers. Based on the Ricker analysis model, a Chehalis River fall Chinook natural spawning escapement goal of 9,880 was proposed and 3,620 for the Humptulips River. A harbor-wide natural spawning escapement goal of 13,500 was proposed.

On March 18, 2015 posted in the Federal Register Vol. 80, No. 52, NMFS proposes updates to management reference point values for Grays Harbor fall Chinook as recommended By the Pacific Fishery Management Council (Council) for use in developing annual management measures beginning in 2015. These management reference point values are conservation objectives to provide necessary guidance for fisheries management within the guidance of the Magnuson-Stevens Fishery Conservation and Management Act.

There are four management reference points established in Federal Register V. 80:
1. 13,326 natural area spawners for Grays Harbor (9,753 Chehalis, 3,573 Humptulips) goals.
2. Smsy 13,326 natural area spawners.
3. Maximum Fishery Mortality Threshold (MFMT, generally equal to FMSY), total exploitation rate of 63%. Management all fishery exploitation to 63% or less.
4. Minimum Stock Size Threshold (MSST, Smsy * 0.5), 6,663 natural area spawners (13,326 * 0.5 = 6,663. If natural area spawners drop below 6,663, stock considered “over fished”.
_________________________
Dazed and confused.............the fog is closing in

Top
#1061138 - 12/06/22 07:18 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
Carcassman Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 6957
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
Way back when I looked at PS chum goals. In the 70s, they were based on the average of the highest three years in the data base. Because there was such a consistent difference between even and odd years separate goals were made of the two. Fast forward to the 90s. We had been using this goals for 20+ years and we were coming off some really high returns in the 80s/early 90s.

So, I applied the Ricker Curve to the whole data set for each stock. Interesting results.

As the runs got larger, the calculated MSY goal went higher. Then, as the returns diminished in the 90s, so did the calculated goal. Became apparent to me that the goal reflects the data; if you look at years with smaller returns it certainly won't tell you that you need twice as many fish.

It would not surprise me that if one looked at GH coho and emphasized the recent years of low returns that one would get a lower MSY goal. We are likely to see this sort of analysis out of AK with their Chinook....

Top
#1061169 - 12/08/22 11:34 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
DrifterWA Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 04/25/00
Posts: 5010
Loc: East of Aberdeen, West of Mont...
2/08/2022

Most issues on PP talk about ADULT fish. This posting is about a salmon, that Gill netters, tribal or NT, don't want. A salmon that the vast majority of sport fishermen don't really target.

The Chehalis system, especially the Satsop, seemingly have many "COHO JACKS", that get back to Bingham hatchery. This year the Bingham hatchery, 3,409, has been ONLY exceeded by the Cowlitz, 3744.

The limit has been 6 jacks since I've been in Grays Harbor, 54 years, and even people born and raised in Washington State, can ever remember a limit number different.

WDFW hides behind the "impact number" of adult chinook that might be hooked BUT no number, of impacts, can be provided.

Open the Chehalis and Satsop, to a 12 COHO jack fishery, I'm not asking for a whole State in crease, just those 2 rivers where the COHO jacks are "a targeted fishery" for alot of fishers, male, female, and children. Stop wasting Coho jacks that are "surplused, ie. killed if they reach the hatchery, they are a good source of salmon for the tax paying public.
_________________________
"Worse day sport fishing, still better than the best day working"

"I thought growing older, would take longer"

Top
#1061195 - 12/09/22 10:50 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
Salmo g. Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 13413
Drifter,

There is no biological reason for not allowing a 6 or even more jack coho limit. My guess is that jacks (2 yr coho) count the same as 3 yr coho is the treaty - non-treaty harvest allocations. Maybe WDFW doesn't want to use up coho allocation with jacks?

Top
#1061196 - 12/09/22 11:15 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
Krijack Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 06/03/06
Posts: 1479
Loc: Tacoma
There was an article a few years ago that asked why the limit in one area was lower than the system would allow. The answer was that people feel more satisfied when they get the limit. Allowing a higher limit that was not obtainable by most people would lead to people be unsatisfied. So, the lower limit.

Top
#1061204 - 12/09/22 02:20 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
Carcassman Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 6957
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
As a younger person I agree that the limit was an important goal. I was certainly more proud to come home with a limit than not.

Now? I want to bring home what I wish to eat rather fresh. I have stopped at a duck or two or a goose or two or even just one salmon. It's enough.

Quality over quantity.

Must admit that I would be happy with higher limit for deer as I have lots of ways to save venison and lots of friends who appreciate it.

I know that when setting limits it was believed that few achieved a larger limit so raising it did not significantly add to catch. Which leads me to think that if somebody wants and can catch 12 jacks go for it.


Edited by Carcassman (12/09/22 02:44 PM)

Top
#1061250 - 12/16/22 01:17 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: Carcassman]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4147
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
Steelhead are not my thing but I found this in the Daily World that I thought some might find interesting.

The mysteries of steelhead season

The answer to the survival of our steelhead is obvious — turn management over to the Tribes

Pat Neal

Peninsula Daily News

It was another tough week in the news, when the state Department of Fish and Wildlife decided to end steelhead fishing on many of our rivers even before the steelhead season opened — ending an angling tradition that stretches back through the mists of time as long as we can remember.

If you don’t know what a steelhead is, you are probably not from around here.

Steelhead are a rainbow trout that migrate out to the ocean then return to the rivers where they were born much like the salmon.

Unlike the salmon, steelhead do not die after they spawn.

In fact, one female steelhead in the Hoh River was found to have spawned six times based upon an analysis of her scales, which, much like the rings of a tree, can document the life of the fish.

The fact that steelhead are able to spawn multiple times has made them much harder to eradicate from the ecosystem than our salmon, which can only spawn once.

Never fear. Using the best available science, coupled with best available Disney movies, the co-managers of this precious resource have been working tirelessly to transform this magnificent fish from a public resource we could all enjoy into an endangered species.

Through the miracle of the Endangered Species Act, it is hoped that millions of federal dollars will soon become available to study the problem. Meanwhile, just about all we have left of our steelhead culture and traditions have become a distant memory.

Nobody who ever caught a steelhead will forget their first one.

This is my story.

We were camping in the rainforest sometime in the last century. It was raining. And not just a sprinkle. It was pounding on our tent like a thousand little hammers. However, we had a wood stove in the tent, so it was warm but a little moist. Unfortunately, we had forgotten a ground sheet and since we were camping in a meadow, the floor was a wet patch of grass. Once the turf warmed up inside the tent, every bug in the country woke up and sprang out of hibernation ready for a meal.

Outside, flakes of snow mixed with rain. Inside, it was mosquito season as hundreds of bugs filled the tent like a cloud of misery. Somehow, we survived until morning and it was time to fish. We did not catch a thing,




The Tribal section of the Queets and Quinault rivers have the best steelhead fishing in the United States in terms of size and numbers of fish. WDFW

but we saw a guy walking along the river carrying a fish as long as his leg.

Once I caught a steelhead, I was hooked.

Steelhead are not for eating anymore. According to the government, steelhead are now so rare that some rivers, like the Queets, have been shut down to even catch-and-release fishing — causing questions to be asked.

Isn’t the Queets River, protected almost its entire length within Olympic National Park, the most pristine environment this side of Alaska? If the steelhead have become so rare in the Queets, is there something besides the habitat endangering our fish? And isn’t the Queets still open to tribal gillnetting?

The answer to all these questions is yes. The tribes have a treaty right to fish.

Using native broodstock to enhance the runs, they plant more fish than they catch — making the Tribal section of the Queets and Quinault rivers the best steelhead fishing in the United States in terms of size and numbers of fish.

The answer to the survival of our steelhead is obvious.

Let the Tribes manage our steelhead. They are the only ones doing it.

We’ll thank ourselves later if we do the right thing now.

Pat Neal is a Hoh River fishing and rafting guide and “wilderness gossip columnist” whose column appears weekly in the Peninsula Daily News, a sister newspaper of The Daily World.
_________________________
Dazed and confused.............the fog is closing in

Top
Page 169 of 171 < 1 2 ... 167 168 169 170 171 >

Search

Site Links
Home
Our Washington Fishing
Our Alaska Fishing
Reports
Rates
Contact Us
About Us
Recipes
Photos / Videos
Visit us on Facebook
Today's Birthdays
Hotrod1981, Hotrod2481, tommy trune
Recent Gallery Pix
hatchery steelhead
Hatchery Releases into the Pacific and Harvest
Who's Online
0 registered (), 83 Guests and 3 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
John Boob, Lawrence, I'm Still RichG, feyt, Freezeout
11498 Registered Users
Top Posters
Todd 28156
Dan S. 17149
Sol Duc 16138
The Moderator 14486
Salmo g. 13413
eyeFISH 12721
STRIKE ZONE 12107
Dogfish 10979
ParaLeaks 10513
Jerry Garcia 9160
Forum Stats
11498 Members
16 Forums
63666 Topics
643091 Posts

Max Online: 3001 @ 01/28/20 02:48 PM

Join the PP forums.

It's quick, easy, and always free!

Working for the fish and our future fishing opportunities:

The Wild Steelhead Coalition

The Photo & Video Gallery. Nearly 1200 images from our fishing trips! Tips, techniques, live weight calculator & more in the Fishing Resource Center. The time is now to get prime dates for 2018 Olympic Peninsula Winter Steelhead , don't miss out!.

| HOME | ALASKA FISHING | WASHINGTON FISHING | RIVER REPORTS | FORUMS | FISHING RESOURCE CENTER | CHARTER RATES | CONTACT US | WHAT ABOUT BOB? | PHOTO & VIDEO GALLERY | LEARN ABOUT THE FISH | RECIPES | SITE HELP & FAQ |