Luhr Jensen Jet Divers have been found to be best rigged on a "leash" so the hookup doesn't flow through them.
I suppose that gave me the idea to try the bead chain spoon lashup seeking the same principle.
The real driver was being in a period of 50% loss after hookup.

so you run a swivel on both ends?

Yup. Fish need just the slightest bit of slack to throw a barbless hook, and a heavy spoon attached to it certainly seems to add to the challenge. Much easier for them to create said slack with your line in the air than in the water. I've lost plenty of fish on hardware (and most everything else), too, but since having "LOW AND LEFT" (or right, where appropriate) drilled into my head, it happens a lot less often. This is especially true with fly line, in my experience.

(We won't talk about a certain URB I lost last at the boat last year at Buoy 10 with my rod up in the air and making a straight line to the hook, nearly taking out the First Mate with 10 ounces of flying lead in the process. Straight up Bush League....)

Yes...this.

Fish on...

Todd

I think a rod with more backbone to drive the hook home will do it, and I mean serious backbone.

Thank you, one and all, for managing to avoid combining the words "fish, spit, and hook" in more or less the same sentence. We are making progress. Really, truly, we are, and that means a lot.

I think the biggest reason that more spoon eaters aren't landed is the way the fish take the lure. Dec Hogan offers a fascinating summary (based on observations) of how steelhead take flies, and I think there is a lot in that summary that can be applied to all "swung" offerings.

Hooking fish well with your line/angle of presentation thirty degrees or less to the current is a notoriously hard thing to do. The fish tend to follow, eat, and turn, and when they bite something on a tight line hanging straight down or close to it, quite often it leaves their mouth before a hook can find decent purchase. I can't count the number of steelhead landed on swung offerings that were barely skin/lip hooked, and I have certainly lost and missed many more than that.

Sometimes the best thing you can do when you get whacked in the last third of your swim is to drop your tip and wait, giving the fish a chance to turn. Good luck with that though, it takes patience and calculation that defy nature . Chances are you'll get bit, yank back, sometimes theyll stick and sometimes they won't.

Fishing the Dolly Lama, a local favorite string leech of sorts, it is almost comical to leave the fly dangling in the current at the end of your swing and let it get attacked. Sometimes it will take upwards of nine or ten strikes to get a fish to stick, granted most of the suitors are small dollies which do have a hard time feeding themselves.

I think the hang back idea makes a lot of sense here, but have yet to try it on a spoon.

Been running hangback spoons in the river on a straight hang down presentation, Coley.

Wait...
Wait...
Wait...

... for the rod to bury (just like you were pluggin')... and they hookup just like every good hang back rig should.... outside in, solidly in the corner.

Doc.............you like anything that is extended or hangs back..........
Just Doc's way !

BTW...........Did you dial up a zero on sunday ? that was the rumor I heard..

fished a small river all alone..........bummer....not quite sure how to handle solitude.........but I am going to try and learn.........

Peace
Fly

Doc, Did you get to put that hangback spoon on some fish Friday, That might have been the ticket on that gravel bar. It caughed up two on sunday. I Should of tried a spoon on sunday, I bet it would have worked good, Maybe next time I will.

I would try making the entire connection at the head of the spoon and see what you think.
Put a lure flipper or similar for a "kite tail" on the tail if the spoon needs it to help it swim (bet it doesn't).

If the connection to the fish does not have to go through the spoon at all, it's advantage fisherman.
The weight and mass are still there but he can't shake directly against the spoon and the spoon can't "tread water" during the fight.
The "tread water" issue would be of greater concern when using large wobblers like Clancy and Alvin.

I first tested my bead chain spoon lashup in 1999 on the lower Deschutes. Black oxide Mor-Tac #3, if I recall correctly.
It was an average fish and a happy day as the plan came together.
Looks weird in the tackle box but looks awesome swimming.

In my mind's eye, I see the spoon being bumped out of the way during the attack, revealing the surprise underneath.
The hook should also move (pendulum) toward the direction of the attack, if pressure is coming to bear on the bead chain.

Not for the average joe, well at least not until Brad's starts putting them in blister packs.

I agree with Coley. I think this has more to do with downstream angle. This is also the reason fly swingers often keep a small loop to release on the grab that allows the fish to turn.

Hooking fish straight downstream is a problem with whatever method you use, and waiting for the fish to turn and sweeping sideways is always a good way to up your odds on that, but I think the weight of a spoon bopping around with a barbless hook is an additional problem to that one.

Fish on...

Todd

Thanks for all the good input. Its good to hear I'm not the only one experiencing the same hook/land issue. I like the lure adaptations described here. I look forward to trying them. I'll also try to remain patient with takes that occur at the end of the swing. Any advice out there on the fight itself? I try to keep my rod low and bank side and release tension on jumping/thrashing fish. Outside of that I slowly tighten the drag as the fish tires and hog him in when it seems its ready, while mindful there is probably one more run to go.

You release to much tension on a jumping fish the spoon will drop and can pull the hook out.

Bead Chain Spoon

Here's a replica of Prototype #1

Yep.
When he puts a move on you, you have to do the correct counter-move.

In a timely fashion.






It's intuitive.

I think that this is what the OP was struggling with.
Who hasn't

Direct Drive..No Good, can't really doublestack those

Kidding aside your design does have the same merits as putting a swivel between the blank and hook. Along with not allowing the blank as much leverage on the hook, This extra swivel also allows the hook to immediately spin freely and orientate to the best purchase point on the fish, whereas a hook on just a split ring doesn't have the same free rotation capabilities.

The true test of the setup's effectiveness is if you place a hook on a split ring and quickly run your finger down the blank across the hook on the convex side, you will never hook your finger because the hook cannot rotate to that point. With a swivel in place, the hook can rotate freely 360 degrees, and if you try the same test with your finger the hook will rotate to that spot, & you'll hook it every time.

I've used a 3/8" diameter wooden dowel to monkey with different designs as they dangle to essentially do the same thing.
Less bloody than using fingers.

The one I'm describing is the pictured black oxide with the bead chain a few posts back.
The motivation for that one was to move the connection to the fish, off of the spoon.
The idea is to take as much of the spoon out of play as possible during the fight while still allowing it to act normally when swimming.

wholey sh!tt i need to go back to colledge