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#843660 - 06/13/13 04:07 PM Who knew? Flossing is legal in California
Blktailhunter Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 08/07/09
Posts: 485
I always thought that flossing was illegal. Apparently in California it is perfectly legal. I sent an email to the head of the Cal DF@G to get a clarification on flossing after seeing a huge increase in the activity. The regs say that under section 2.00 (c) Fishing Methods: It is unlawful to kill, or retain in possession any fish which has not voluntarily taken the bait or artificial lure in its mouth. Any fish not taken pursuant to these regulations, shall be released immediately back into the water. Also under section 1.05 Angling: To take fish by hook and line with the line held in the hand, or with the line attached to a pole or rod held in the hand or closely attended in such manner that the fish voluntarily takes the bait or lure in its mouth.

I was wrong. I'm thinking they need to re-write the regs. This is the email response I got back.



Quote:

From
Milotz, Michael@Wildlife

To

XXXXX XXXXXXXXXX

Hi XXXXX and thanks for your e-mail. Sorry It has taken me some time to reply, I have been out of the office. I can understand your concern. The basic answer is yes, it is legal and as you have read/seen a common practice that is growing in popularity. There are many issues with this style of fishing. The extra-long leaders do often foul hook fish, many times hooked in the face or tail of the fish. Some people retain the fish (violating ccr T14 2.00) others do the right thing and release the fish.

Mike



Lieutenant Michael Milotz

Department of Fish and Wildlife

Law Enforcement Division

CalTIP Coordinator
1416 9th Street, Room 1326
Sacramento, CA. 95814
916-654-1485 (office)



1-888-334-CalTIP – 24 hour Poaching/Polluting Hotline


Edited by Blktailhunter (06/13/13 04:08 PM)

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#843665 - 06/13/13 04:19 PM Re: Who knew? Flossing is legal in California [Re: Blktailhunter]
Todd Offline
Dick Nipples

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 28170
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
Lame...I think that officer needs to read his own regulations.

Fish on...

Todd
_________________________


Team Flying Super Ditch Pickle


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#843670 - 06/13/13 04:30 PM Re: Who knew? Flossing is legal in California [Re: Todd]
MPM Offline
Spawner

Registered: 12/09/08
Posts: 766
Loc: Seattle, WA
Agreed. The law seems pretty unambiguous to me (although *proving* that a fish didn't take something willingly would be near impossible). Unfortunately, law enforcement officers are not always the experts on the law.

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#843694 - 06/13/13 07:05 PM Re: Who knew? Flossing is legal in California [Re: ]
eyeFISH Offline
Ornamental Rice Bowl

Registered: 11/24/03
Posts: 12766
The way I read his response, the USE of flossing rigs is perfectly legal. Fish COULD willfully "take" the presentation.

Retaining fish that did not willfully "take" the gear is what's illegal.

He plainly states that some people keep them anyway, while others do the "right" thing.

Bottom line, while it may not be legal, such "take" seems to be tolerated by enforcement.
_________________________
"Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." (Zane Grey)

"If you don't kill them, they will spawn." (Carcassman)


The Keen Eye MD
Long Live the Kings!

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#843706 - 06/13/13 07:36 PM Re: Who knew? Flossing is legal in California [Re: ]
RobertF
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: Hankster
Bead fishing is the preferred method on the American river and the reason I don't fish there. You can run into flossers on a few rivers here, but the American and the Mad are where I've seen the most.


rofl

Those flossers on the mad kill me. When its muddy they are there in droves. When the water turns green they all bag it,and thats when that river can be lights out on hatchery turds. I like going up there and bait fishing for a few bucks for the smoker.

The bite is where it's at. Flossing isn't fishing. If its a terminal area like Nimbus basin or Thermalito on the feather I say let them floss those hatchery boots and keep them off the water I fish




Edited by RobertF (06/13/13 07:39 PM)

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#843707 - 06/13/13 07:53 PM Re: Who knew? Flossing is legal in California [Re: ]
Krijack Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 06/03/06
Posts: 1531
Loc: Tacoma
"The extra-long leaders do often foul hook fish, many times hooked in the face or tail of the fish"

Seems to me that he is stating that the long leaders are legal but that fish hooked in the face or other places are considered foul hooked. I assume that it is not legal to keep foul hooked fish, so all fish not hooked in the mouth would be illegal. If it is legal to keep foul hooked fish, then the whole rules are screwed up.

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#843732 - 06/13/13 09:07 PM Re: Who knew? Flossing is legal in California [Re: Krijack]
Salman Offline
Spawner

Registered: 03/07/12
Posts: 806
It's alright to retain a fish as long as it was hooked in the mouth, it doesn't matter if a knowitall called it flossing.
_________________________
Why build in the flood plain?

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#843755 - 06/13/13 11:07 PM Re: Who knew? Flossing is legal in California [Re: ]
eugene1 Offline
Spawner

Registered: 09/17/10
Posts: 885
Loc: out there...
From what I understand flossing is them is illegal in CA, but it is popular on the American like Hank said.

I also think the email was saying that retaining those fish is NOT legal.

Best,

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#843773 - 06/14/13 12:25 AM Re: Who knew? Flossing is legal in California [Re: eugene1]
americanriverfishe Offline
Egg

Registered: 06/14/13
Posts: 1
ive kept thousands salmon /steel in ca since 1990 all hooked in the mouth mostly fished nimbus clay banks and sailor bar just below hatchery. i used minimum 25'-30' leader small bead and a #2 gami small pencil lead was the ticket just enough to tick bottom fish will be nice and bright august- sept i really miss being down there . but its much easyer pickins here in wa got plenty practice from nimbus dam im glad i did it destroys fish in wa same method from cali.


Edited by americanriverfishe (06/14/13 12:31 AM)

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#843777 - 06/14/13 12:41 AM Re: Who knew? Flossing is legal in California [Re: ]
Salman Offline
Spawner

Registered: 03/07/12
Posts: 806
Originally Posted By: Hankster
Originally Posted By: Salman
It's alright to retain a fish as long as it was hooked in the mouth, it doesn't matter if a knowitall called it flossing.

How long are the leaders you use when you're hooking them in the mouth?


90 feet.
_________________________
Why build in the flood plain?

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#843876 - 06/14/13 04:57 PM Re: Who knew? Flossing is legal in California [Re: Salman]
Nor Cal Drifter Offline
Spawner

Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 781
Loc: Sacramento, CA
Eyefish and some others on here should be HUGE supporters of flossing on some of the rivers down here - it gets rid of hatchery fish that otherwise would try to spawn in the river.


Edited by Nor Cal Drifter (06/14/13 04:58 PM)
_________________________
"Eventually, all things merge into one, and a river runs through it."

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#843877 - 06/14/13 05:07 PM Re: Who knew? Flossing is legal in California [Re: Nor Cal Drifter]
Direct-Drive Offline
ExtenZe Field Tester

Registered: 11/10/09
Posts: 8060
Loc: Vancouver, WA
The flosser's brain is wired in such a way, that he/she has no need/desire to experience the take.
Probably some don't know that "the take" exists.

Cali should fix the reg.
_________________________
NO STEP ON SNEK

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#843966 - 06/15/13 12:06 PM Re: Who knew? Flossing is legal in California [Re: Direct-Drive]
Tyler_C Offline
Parr

Registered: 09/06/12
Posts: 66
The way i take it is that its NOT legal. A fish is not VOLUNTEERING to take the bait, which, according to the regs, is not legal.

I don't care what anyone says, flossing is illegal. The fish isn't taking the bait. You're forcing the fish to "take" the bait, but in reality, the fish didn't volunteer to hit it whatsoever. They are the same as snaggers in my eyes. No need for em

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#843976 - 06/15/13 03:38 PM Re: Who knew? Flossing is legal in California [Re: ]
ParaLeaks Offline
WINNER

Registered: 01/11/03
Posts: 10513
Loc: Olypen
Flyfishermen call flossing "the swing". laugh
_________________________
Agendas kill truth.
If it's a crop, plant it.




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#844047 - 06/15/13 11:10 PM Re: Who knew? Flossing is legal in California [Re: Tyler_C]
tooshort Offline
Egg

Registered: 06/15/13
Posts: 2
best lawyer in world could not prove flossed fish..oh ask the fish what happened duh

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#844066 - 06/16/13 11:15 AM Re: Who knew? Flossing is legal in California [Re: tooshort]
Direct-Drive Offline
ExtenZe Field Tester

Registered: 11/10/09
Posts: 8060
Loc: Vancouver, WA
Originally Posted By: tooshort
best lawyer in world could not prove flossed fish..oh ask the fish what happened duh

Flossers are counting on it.
_________________________
NO STEP ON SNEK

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#858109 - 09/19/13 12:34 AM Re: Who knew? Flossing is legal in California [Re: Direct-Drive]
Nathan29 Offline
Egg

Registered: 09/16/13
Posts: 4
Loc: FL
The laws are different for different state so in most of the state that Flossing is legal and i think most of the people think that its the easy way and using that.But may its illegal in other state near you.
get the info about world's best solicitors


Edited by Nathan29 (09/21/13 03:23 AM)
_________________________
In law, nothing is certain but the expense...

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#858115 - 09/19/13 01:24 AM Re: Who knew? Flossing is legal in California [Re: americanriverfishe]
Brewer Offline
2112

Registered: 01/11/07
Posts: 4996
Loc: in the mass production zone
Originally Posted By: americanriverfishe
ive kept thousands salmon /steel in ca since 1990 all hooked in the mouth mostly fished nimbus clay banks and sailor bar just below hatchery. i used minimum 25'-30' leader small bead and a #2 gami small pencil lead was the ticket just enough to tick bottom fish will be nice and bright august- sept i really miss being down there . but its much easyer pickins here in wa got plenty practice from nimbus dam im glad i did it destroys fish in wa same method from cali.



hmmmm? 1 post. any guesses who this joker might be?
_________________________

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#858119 - 09/19/13 02:19 AM Re: Who knew? Flossing is legal in California [Re: ParaLeaks]
menelaus22 Offline
Fry

Registered: 05/17/11
Posts: 31
If you think that's true then RVRFSHR ought to be names RVRSNAGR

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#858124 - 09/19/13 08:11 AM Re: Who knew? Flossing is legal in California [Re: menelaus22]
fish4brains Offline
Dah Rivah Stinkah Pink Mastah

Registered: 08/23/06
Posts: 6866
Loc: zipper
speeding on the freeway is illegal too
_________________________
...
Propping up an obsolete fishing industry at the expense of sound fisheries management is irresponsible. -Sg



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