There is a meeting TONIGHT in Centralia at the college regarding public input as to whether or not to cut summer steelhead production from the North Fork Toutle / Green River and East Fork Lewis. This event has been on my calendar for weeks but I have a nasty case of strep throat and will not be attending which sickens me immensely. I would normally refrain from posting facts about the Green/North Fork Toutle summerrun fishing for the world to see but the truth is, it can be downright phenomenal. This is a river that must be saved for the future of steelheaders and the next generation of steelheaders as well. If this river is shut down I will refrain from purchasing my license during the 2014 season as I am purely sick and tired of getting the short end of the stick. I'm that committed.

Please, please, please attend this meeting if you are able. Demand that these rivers continue to get their smolt plants. These are two of the last small stream summerrun rivers we have left that provide decent access to sportsfishers. If you are just getting into the sport, please show up as I can promise that one day you will experience the rush that is small stream summerrun fishing on one of these rivers should they remain stocked.

I am absolutely sick to my stomach that WDFW would even consider destroying these fisheries as they are just a few of the remaining streams that the bank-bound angler can enjoy from June through September. Please let your voice be heard as this is our final shot. Let me know if you plan on attending so I can rest a bit easier tonight. Strength in numbers, folks!
It will be held from 6-8 p.m. in the Washington Hall Room 103 at Centralia College, 701 W. Walnut St..
I will try to get on speakerphone with someone attending the meeting to voice my concerns live as well....

Sorry to read your sick man..get better. With that said, I will be there.

Have a couple of questions and am unable to attend.
Curious where the Steelhead are reared for the Green and NF Toutle? I thought they came from the Skamania Hatchery? If so, and the plants are not happening this year, where would those fish go? Could or would those now excess plants be increased somewhere else.... S.F.Toutle?
Not that I agree with this, but I understand the gene bank philosophy, but opportunties that are taken away should be exchanged for opportunity somewhere else?

What I do not understand is the idea to continue stocking summer run steelhead smolts on the SF Toutle while cutting the Green and NF Toutle ?
To me it seems as if they want to protect wild genetics, WDFW would curtail all hatchery summer steelhead plants on all Toutle river tributaries? I might be mistaken but believe that is the current plan on the table?

However, if the plants on the NF and Green are cut, I will miss the summer steelhead plants in the Green R. and NF Toutle as I hooked and lost the largest summer run fish of my life in the Green R. just two Summers ago... Still stings...Looks like I may have only one more Summer left to try to land another fish of that size this year....

Which cuts deep at what Gen X has been dealing with the last 10 yrs....Lost production and opportunities all the dang time! One after another, just at the time when our our generation is getting to the point of being able to delve into this wonderful sport head-long with hard fought time and money to take out our own children to keep the cycle going.!? ?! ?! ?! ?! ?! ?! !?

Anyone with a report on how it went? Couldn't make it, but would like to hear.

Never have fished the N.F Toutle or Green. Both look like small to medium sized summer run gems. Do they know how many Native steelhead return to these rivers and if they cut off stocking, will these rivers be closed to all fishing until Native numbers reach a certain level?

Hope im wrong, but it seems like as soon as planting is stopped the next step is closing the rivers down because native stocks are not at a certain level?

what i don't get, is why an area with such access is being cut to turn into a "gene bank", while you have a river like the coweeman just south of there that still gets planted, has zero public access, and would make an excellent gene bank.

I've said it a million times, this state can't manage sh!t. They have f@#ked up what they haven't sh!t on. I'm so tired of incredibly stupid thinking and a paranoia that the natives will get pissed and b!tch. After 52 years of fishing for steelhead I'm at the point where I may just bow out. The ridiculous management, natives that cheat and lie when the truth would fit better and the thousands of idiots that don't have a frickin clue as to what river etiquette means. I'm glad that I had the opportunity to fish the Toutle, the OP rivers and so many other streams in the 50's, 60's and early 70's. The chance to fish without anyone around or very few people around. People knew to be courteous and mindful of other fishermen. I'm not sure if it will ever be the same as it was. No, actually I know it will never be the same.

Was there any mention of increasing plants in hatchery rivers?

2Many,
Sounds like a productive meeting! When will we know the verdict or are there others scheduled to take place? Thanks to those that attended!

I have tried to stay out of heated political discussion and don't want to make this heated as I heard the meeting got last night right down to people calling other POS. I wasn't able to attend but sent my comments in to keep them as gene banks. You say people want access and opportunity for hatchery fish what are the people that want access and robust wild fish populations to fish for supposed to do? The scientific evidence I have seen points to hatchery planting not doing any good things for wild populations. Move a gene bank to a river that has no public access then what how does that help those that want access to healthy populations.

I am no fan of the WDFW and it some of what they do is so hostile towards the people of Washington it is ridiculous and I think there are some things that don't make sense about this like still planting in the SF if the NF and Green are gene banks, but my understanding is that the Toutle has a semi healthy population of wild summer fish and being a gene bank doesn't mean no fishing it just means no hatchery plants and no fishing unless certain goals are met. It would seem that having healthy populations of wild fish would allow for a good fishery in a system that has access.

Again I am not trying to make this heated and I know there are emotions on all sides but I feel that having a wild summer fishery that is CnR is every bit as important at having a hatchery fishery for consumption.

JJ

Thanks for the update 2Many. I had something come up and could not attend. Sounds like the public sentiment is making sense. It's one thing to give the EFL to gene bank status with the Toutle/Green staying as is. It's a huge loss to public fishing if the EFL and Toutle system are assigned to gene bank status. Like Woody Guthrie said about real estate, the same thing applies to rivers: God ain't making any more of them.

And as a Subaru-driving fly fisherman, I don't understand this notion, if indeed it exists, of fly fishermen wanting these gene bank rivers for their own fishing opportunity. When hatchery stocking ceases, there is NO FISHING OPPORTUNITY for anybody until and unless the wild steelhead in those river systems make escapement. And that may not happen ever, let alone any time soon.

Sg

JJ,

I have no interest in ever killing another wild steelhead in my life, so CNR is fine by me. You're right that hatchery fish do not do wild fish populations any favors. However, on the list of factors that limit wild steelhead production, hatchery fish are a few steps down. Therefore a reasonable person might think we should weigh the ecological benefits of stopping hatchery stocking against the social and economic losses to society. If the presence of hatchery stocking were even close to being as harmful as logging and road building are at degrading habitat productivity and capacity, then absolutely, I would advocate shutting down every hatchery program. But the evidence I have seen is nowhere that strong. Therefore I'm not there yet.

Your understanding about the Toutle having a healthy wild summer steelhead population is not correct. Historically summer steelhead are not native to the Toutle sub-basin, at least not in any significant numbers. There are wild winter steelhead in NF tributaries, the SF, and the Green. Generally they have not been meeting escapement goals in recent years. Consequently a stop to hatchery plants means no more fishing in those stream unless and until spawning escapement goals are achieved. And even then, fishing will likely be limited to CNR, but I believe that will be the eventual fate of all wild steelhead populations statewide. It's only a matter of time.

No heated emotions here. I'm just trying to keep it as real as I know.

Sg

A few random thoughts of my own...

Anyone who starts any conversation with "you don't care about wild fish that's why you want a hatchery!" is not to be listened to...they clearly don't know, or care about what the "other side" is trying to say.

Same goes for any clown who says this:



Now as for comments regarding Cindy LeFleur...I think they were probably too kind for her, she may be the worse thing for sportfishermen in the entire management team at WDFW...actually, no "might" about it...

She is.

Fish on...

Todd

P.S. Not attributing that quote to you, Brett...I understand someone else wrote it and you just passed it along.

Salmo,

Are they really planting winter steelhead in the Green and N. Toutle? They haven't had an open season for 33 years. If they are, it must be for the benefit of the Columbia and Cowlitz?

Ronnie,

As far as I know no hatchery winter run steelhead are stocked anywhere in the Toutle. All wild winters. Hatchery summer run smolts are stocked in the Green and SF Toutle. I don't know the current status, but I think hatchery winter run smolts have been stocked in the Coweeman.

Sg

Are there significant numbers of wild winter fish there now? They've had 33 years with no hatchery fish to get in the way. Is the Fish Collection Facility trapping any? If so I hope they are being taken above the Sediment Retention Structure for spawning in the tribs up there. Or is that a bad idea?

The issue is that there should only be one way to legally catch an andromous fish at that's with a rod and reel. Everything else is designed as a distraction from that fact. As long as people allow themselves to be pitted against each other fighting over scraps it will only get worse not better. If you don't see that and draw a line in the sand it's all over except the shoutin. With 53 years fishing exp in this state that is just my opinion.