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#893553 - 04/30/14 02:22 AM Re: Mayfield Lake net pens? [Re: Daddy]
Fishyfeller Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 06/22/13
Posts: 191
Loc: Port Angeles, Wa
looks like a good place to dump all those steelhead smolts that cant be put in Puget sound rivers


Edited by Fishyfeller (04/30/14 02:23 AM)

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#893573 - 04/30/14 11:57 AM Re: Mayfield Lake net pens? [Re: Fishyfeller]
Salmo g. Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 13520
Very informative and thoughtful first post Daddy. Thanks for sharing, and I hope you stick around and share more information.

Sg

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#893642 - 05/01/14 12:17 AM Re: Mayfield Lake net pens? [Re: Salmo g.]
RUNnGUN Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 1382
Screw salmon. Raise more steelhead!
_________________________
"Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it.” – Ferris Bueller.
Don't let the old man in!

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#895024 - 05/13/14 07:26 PM Re: Mayfield Lake net pens? [Re: RUNnGUN]
Daddy Offline
Egg

Registered: 04/30/14
Posts: 3
Well the net pens are going in. Right in front of the intake to Mayfield Powerhouse. Those waisted tens of thousands of dollars should have gone into stream development, not more sick fish.

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#901449 - 07/27/14 12:41 AM Re: Mayfield Lake net pens? [Re: Daddy]
Daddy Offline
Egg

Registered: 04/30/14
Posts: 3
Well, I called it.

After approximately $600,000 of your tax dollars, between two and three million smolts were placed in the net pens. Then, they started dying by the thousands every day! It seems the smolts had a disease from the supplying hatchery and had to be gathered up in emergency fashion, then dumped down stream of the Cowlitz Salmon Hatchery to either make it to the ocean, or become duck food. The sum total of days in the net pens was less than two weeks. Funny that has not made the papers....
The whole endeavor was a major failure, not to mention it may have introduced a disease into the supply water of the Cowlitz Salmon and Trout Hatcheries.
If the state allows rivers to be damed up, they sure as heck can develop upstream habitat!

Develop Habitat, not Net Pens!

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#901456 - 07/27/14 02:02 AM Re: Mayfield Lake net pens? [Re: Daddy]
Black Bart Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 319
Loc: Adna
Thanx for posting this Daddy. I'm surprised Reid would have allowed this fiasco to happen .. given the science and all ..... Maybe it's time for you to offer the biological reasoning behind this wasted money Salmo .... Inquiring minds would like to know ...

And a big shout out to all the a$$ kissin' Lewis County Regulars .... from Gary's CCA outfitt. We all know you mean well, ..... but alas ...

More money down a rat hole.


Edited by Black Bart (07/27/14 02:13 AM)
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#901498 - 07/27/14 05:37 PM Re: Mayfield Lake net pens? [Re: Daddy]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Originally Posted By: Daddy
The whole endeavor was a major failure, not to mention it may have introduced a disease into the supply water of the Cowlitz Salmon and Trout Hatcheries.


If the fish were of Cowlitz origin and were diseased before being put into the pens then it seems that:

1. The pen concept itself was not the direct cause of the problem and,

2. The disease was already in the salmon hatchery and since that hatchery is upstream of the trout hatchery it had already "contaminated" the water source.

Or did I get one or more facts wrong???? If I did please correct me.
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

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#901501 - 07/27/14 06:34 PM Re: Mayfield Lake net pens? [Re: Larry B]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7411
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
There also is (at least used to be) a WDFW trout hatchery that drained into one of the reservoirs. Need some details as to where the eggs were collected, incubated, and reared .

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#901505 - 07/27/14 06:45 PM Re: Mayfield Lake net pens? [Re: Carcassman]
Keta Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 03/05/00
Posts: 1092
Kinda funny,clicked on the original link and:

This campaign has been deactivated or has expired.

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#901528 - 07/27/14 08:17 PM Re: Mayfield Lake net pens? [Re: Keta]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Originally Posted By: Keta
Kinda funny,clicked on the original link and:

This campaign has been deactivated or has expired.


Nothing funny (as in odd) about that at all. The Voter Voice is a service which is activated for specific issues with each activation having a relatively short life span.

Salmo G. posted early on that eggs had been collected so he should be able to ID the source.
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

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#901545 - 07/27/14 10:49 PM Re: Mayfield Lake net pens? [Re: Larry B]
Keta Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 03/05/00
Posts: 1092
Whatever. I read it as :
This campaign has crashed and burned.

Net pens in a lake... Jay F. C.

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#901555 - 07/28/14 01:06 AM Re: Mayfield Lake net pens? [Re: Larry B]
Salmo g. Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 13520
Black Bart,

To the best of my knowledge there never was any biological reasoning behind this project. It was all political reasoning by individuals whom I suspect were well meaning and well intentioned, but poorly or uninformed. The money could be better spent on alternatives that would better enhance sport fishing, like recycling hatchery steelhead, for example.

Regarding the knowing release of an infected batch of salmon, that falls in the realm of malfeasance IMO. The release of infected hatchery tule Cowlitz chinook exposes other salmonids in the lower Cowltiz River to that infective agent, whatever it is. And lower Cowlitz salmonids have a rough enough time as it is with C. shasta. They don't need another problem.

Larry B.,

As I recall, the eggs were collected at the Cowlitz salmon hatchery from tule hatchery fall chinook. As losses go, it wasn't an "irretrievable commitment of an irreplaceable resource," so there's no need to lose any sleep over it.

Another word about hatchery programs. Hatchery programs suffer losses of fish. It's a fact of life in the fish hatchery business. Measures can be implemented that reduce the frequency and severity of losses, but losses will occur. Anybody who can't accept hatchery fish losses should not be in the fish hatchery business.

Sg

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#901590 - 07/28/14 03:38 PM Re: Mayfield Lake net pens? [Re: Salmo g.]
FleaFlickr02 Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/28/09
Posts: 3314
Well, that's a bummer, to say the least.

I agree with the sentiment that the money could have been better spent on steelhead improvements, but that was never on the table. This project, while it had potential to improve chinook fishing on the Cowlitz, was not about the Cowlitz River. It was about the Columbia; specifically, the Buoy 10 fishery, which, along with Puget Sound, is where the majority of CCA's lobbying is going. I don't have a big problem with that; it IS, after all, the COASTAL Conservation Association, but it has been a bit disappointing coming to that realization.

In-river sport fishing ain't where the money's at, so I think we can all dispense with any notions we might have about habitat projects getting priority over fish production anytime soon. We are hopelessly hooked on the hatchery crack, and that works just fine for WDFW. As long as marine fisheries are marginally successful, their job is done. Additional fish on the gravel are an accident their management paradigm attempts to avoid at all costs.

I'm getting so jaded these days that I have started to think the only reason "wild gene banks" exist is that the hatchery programs in those systems were not productive enough to justify their existence.

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#901652 - 07/29/14 12:51 AM Re: Mayfield Lake net pens? [Re: Salmo g.]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Originally Posted By: Salmo g.


Larry B.,

As I recall, the eggs were collected at the Cowlitz salmon hatchery from tule hatchery fall chinook. As losses go, it wasn't an "irretrievable commitment of an irreplaceable resource," so there's no need to lose any sleep over it.

Another word about hatchery programs. Hatchery programs suffer losses of fish. It's a fact of life in the fish hatchery business. Measures can be implemented that reduce the frequency and severity of losses, but losses will occur. Anybody who can't accept hatchery fish losses should not be in the fish hatchery business.

Sg


Stuff happens. Right now there are much bigger management issues at play. No sleep lost.

My particular concern here was to make sure that the facts were accurately set forth. Whether the whole effort made sense is another issue. Whether a net pen in the lake makes sense is also another question. What is important is to understand that the lost fish were diseased at the Cowlitz salmon hatchery; it was apparently not because of the net pens or that they were in the lake - at least based upon the info provided. And if those fish were contaminated at the salmon hatchery this initiative did not result in the contamination of the water source for the two hatcheries; it was presumably caused by the hatchery water already being contaminated.
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

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#957695 - 05/23/16 12:53 PM Re: Mayfield Lake net pens? [Re: Keta]
No Warranty Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 07/28/09
Posts: 111

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#957698 - 05/23/16 02:19 PM Re: Mayfield Lake net pens? [Re: Keta]
WDFW X 1 = 0 Offline
My Area code makes me cooler than you

Registered: 01/27/15
Posts: 4549
Damn it.

The Cowlitz now has more wild fish.

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#957768 - 05/24/16 03:17 PM Re: Mayfield Lake net pens? [Re: Osprey]
gooybob Offline
Spawner

Registered: 03/01/11
Posts: 993
Loc: Tacoma
Originally Posted By: Osprey
More fish is never a bad thing. Hope they can keep those Tiger Muskies out of the net pens....Os


Maybe the Muskies chewed their way through the nets! They've got some big ass teeth! Seriously, you have to think that the Muskies spent time cruising those net pens so when the big escape came there had to be some chomping going on.

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#957776 - 05/24/16 04:36 PM Re: Mayfield Lake net pens? [Re: Keta]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7411
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
No way. According to WDFW the Muskies do not and will not eat salmonids. I've asked.

In the interest of full disclosure, while they deny they eat salmonids, trout were found in some stomachs. Guess they went with model and not the data.

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#957811 - 05/25/16 08:25 AM Re: Mayfield Lake net pens? [Re: Keta]
Salmo g. Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 13520
Northern pikeminnows will prey on more of the smolts than the muskies will.

The greater question that remains in play is whether the net pen Chinook program makes sense in the first place. Money spent of fall Chinook that don't recruit to the Cowlitz fishery is money not spent on programs that do recruit fish to the Cowlitz fishery.

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#957816 - 05/25/16 10:17 AM Re: Mayfield Lake net pens? [Re: Keta]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7411
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
But Salmo, the only truly important fisheries are Buoy Zooey, the ocean, and Straits. If we get that, the rest is just gravy.

Pretty sure WDFW would trade almost anything to get "full" fisheries in those three.

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