Does anyone know how the state determines when Indians or sportsmen have caught their aloted 50% of the steelhead catch? How do they truely determine escapement for spawning? Before Indians started netting, there were alot of fish out there, 2 years after netting began, fishing went down hill.

The population explosion in western Wa also began at the same time. Can we Say Concrete Jungle?.

I remember fishing in the early 70s and there were lots of fishermen and fish then.

Doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that the additional impact the nets did on the systems. In most streams the fishing pressure by sporties has increased as well. Have the escapement goals been met on these rivers....some.. most just don't have a high enough escapement value to increase the run size instead of status quo or falling. The real need is to have the escapement goals increased to the levels of fish abundance improvement. If that means closures.....So be it. That doesn't mean just sporties, that means commercial and natives also. Quotas need to be reduced and Escapement needs to be increased.

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Marty
www.steelheader.net
marty@steelheader.net

I have no problem with closures if they will improve the fishing situation and apply to everyone. I would also be open to alternatives such as shortening seasons during native runs, using single barbless hooks, lowering limits... Are there any really organized fishing groups pushing for these kind of changes?

Don't kill your limit, limit your kill.

It doesn't look like anyone is has replied to the question you first asked. I believe that the state uses several ways to get to 50%. First they use catch record cards. Don't think that if you don't send in your that they will not count. They use a formula to average unreturned cards. Next they use hatchery return numbers and lastly in river checks and counts. Like the checkers and there are people who count redds and dead salmon. I guess the process is so long there is no wonder it screwed up.

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Just because I look big, dumb, and ugly, doesn't mean I am. It means I can stomp you for calling me it!

Big Jim Thanks for the reply

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As the Columbia and Snake go, so go salmon and steelhead... As soon as everyone understands that the better off we will be. It would seem that everybody is bitching about the side streets but the real issue is the Interstate Hiway... get it ??? Indians are a part of the problem only because we allow science or lack of it from the last century to determine what we do today. In the end I fear that this whole issue will be something that kids read about in books rather than see and understand themselves. You kow, there has been a lot of crap going on in this state "Idaho" Don't you care if your kids ever see a wolf??? No I don't.. Do I care If salmon and steelhead go extinct in this state??? Yes I do... You know, if something was killing all the cows that roam the west I bet the goverment would get to the bottom of that issue pretty damn quick...

Griz,

The WDFW and tribal harvest managers make a pre-season run size estimate for both the hatchery and wild run components for the year. The hatchery run is considered 100% harvestable, except for the hatchery escapement if there is a need for a given river to collect hatchery broodstock. The wild run in excess of the escapement goal is deemed harvestable surplus. The harvestable hatchery and wild steelhead are added up and then divided in half to determine the treaty and non-treaty shares.

Tracking treaty harvest is the easier part. Steelhead that are commercially sold are entered on a fish ticket by the commercial buyer. WDFW fish samplers collect the catch data daily and phone or fax it to Olympia, where it is entered on computer and available for everyone to monitor. Some tribes have systems for tracking "over the bank" private fish sales, which is legal, and some do not, making such sales illegal. The total amount of undocumented sales is, by definition, unknown, but managers consider it to be a relatively small percent of the total. (Undocumented sales are common to non-treaty fishing as well, but those generally do not include steelhead.)

Estimating the sport catch is less precise. WDFW checkers interview anglers on selected rivers (a representative sample, hopefully) and count anglers and vehicles and boats. Periodic counts of anglers and boats are made by fixed wing or helecopter. This data is extrapolated to estimate a sport harvest per unit of time and area based on the angler interviews. Those estimates are back checked after the end of the season with punch card return data. It's not the most accurate catch estimation system, but it's what we've got, and it's probably close enough to meet essential conservation needs, although it's no doubt pretty weak for precise catch allocation purposes.

Hope that information helps you some.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

Salmo g. Thanks for the detailed info. Griz.