Do any of you fish Vision Hooks? There about 1/2 the price of gammy's,stronger than gammy's and definetly as sharp right out of the box. they sell more hooks to guides in Wa. state then any other manufacture. Check em out. Peace

I've heard a lot of great things about Vision hooks, talked to the guys at the ISE in Seattle and one big guy even gave my some samples which I really liked, but I cannot find them in any tackle shops! Where can I find these hooks?

Ill agree on the price thing...But No way are they sharper and Ive never lost a fish cause the Gammys broke or bent! If your giving the guides the hooks coarse there gonna fish em. Lets tell em they can have either one free! Then lets see which hook they choose! Remember your a salsmen trying to sell your product, A car salesman will tell ya the same line...If thats what it takes to make a sale. MONEY DOSENT MATTER!!! if your consistantly hooking fish. especially 25 cents...

Salesman sure, but I have heard that they are great hooks @ half the price. I actually used some last weekend and I thought there were pretty damn good! Of course I spent hours and hours sharpening my Lazer Sharps for years!!

Gammys are great hooks.If they have been working for you stick with them! Unless the price is an issue.

[This message has been edited by LoomisMan (edited 03-08-2000).]

Some of the Quinault guides have been using them and are very pleased!

anyone who thinks that the vision hook isnt as sharp as a gammy is wrong. i know for a fact that guides do not get given the vision product, they pay for them, also check out their swivels, by far better than the rosco. they are extremely fast and once again that price is definately within reason. but my guess would be the price will stay down as an introductory deal and will be more expensive as time goes on and popularity grows. dont think that because you pay less for a product that it isn't good. loomis rods for example arent necessarily the best just because of their high dollar marketing and retail prices.

I heard that vision hooks are gammy 2nd's! So if that is true then they are the same thing. Heard that they are also coming out with a line of fly hooks, can't wait.

I live in washougal,wa. and shop at G I Joes
and Fisherman marine supply and have never seen a vision hook.let alone a swivel by that name.But I've tried other hooks and always come back to gammies.they are the best...

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Bob Dawson

I do have to agree that they are a good hook at half the price. whether they are better than Gamakatsu or not is debatable. I fish spinners more than anything else and will pay any amount for good swivels. Vision's are the best, no question. Just one question Joe (AKA Superfly), when you make a post like that why don't you come right out and say that you are the "Product Manager" for Vision Hooks and Tackle?

I fished with them yesterday and they suck.Have you ever straightened out a 2/0 Gammy with 10# leader or have the tip break off when snagged on a log.Well it happened to me with Vision hooks yesterday.Also we hooked 9 fish and only landed 4.I know that happens,but the other things made me think these hooks were a contributing factor in losing so many fish.--- TIGHT LINES---

I haven't used the hooks, but I DID notice them in the CABELA'S catalogue!!!

I stick with Gammies on the rivers...on the salt, I usually use Gammies too for double hook and single hook setups. Otherwise I use commercial trebles!!!

L

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"Great spirits have always encountered opposition from mediocre minds!" Albert Einstein

We've used Gammi's and Vision both on our TV show. We switched from Gammi's to Vision after the Gammi's on our John's Jigs kept breaking and we've never broken a Vision hook. That isn't exactly a scientific experiment, just our experience. And no, we didn't switch to Vision because they are a sponsor of our TV show....we were using Vision hooks BEFORE we approached them for a sponsorship.

Kevin
Fisherman's Heaven http://www.fishermansheaven.com

I'll stick with gammies till they fail me.

That is the great thing about this country, your right to choose what you want to use or buy. A free Market society encourages competition,competition makes for better products, and better products are good for the consumers. I used Gammy's until I went to work for Vision, Vision Hooks gave me the opportunity to get out of the woods.(former Logger) Gammy's at this time have probably about 90% of the sportfishing market here in the northwest. Nobody is going to hurt them in anyway. All vision is doing is filling a void in the market selling a great hook for a good price and giving the consumer a break. We will continue to add products to our line such as fly hooks, bass hooks, jig hooks and of course siwash for the lure restrictions. We are also doing some oem business, which gammy dosent do much of because of there price.
As for Gammy seconds, there not, they come from a different place.
As for the guy who says they suck , he obviosly was'nt fishing visions because our tinsile strength is higher than gammys.
for every one else just try em', if you don't like em thats fine but I think you will be pleasently suprised. Peace Superfly

Superfly, How does the wire diameter compare to Gammies, as a guide I've tried many hooks but I always come back to Gammies, besides the obvious of there sharpness and strength they are also made of smaller gauge wire meaning the eye is smaller which causes less damage to my baits, just curious, thanks.

i like the vision hooks but the only thing i don't like about them is that the smaller hooks like the # 2's and 4's the barb and the shank are to close together so i use all the higher sizes up to 2/0's and there great so there good besides the smaller hooks they make

ok superfly, now that you bring up your sales pitch, now where in say, tacoma/spanaway will we find your vision hooks and or swivels.
i shop a lot at k-marche' and gi joe's, but have never seen them. forgot about fredy's.
so where do you sell from?

thanks elmtree.

[This message has been edited by elmtree (edited 03-13-2000).]

Scott, The Vision Wire diameter is a touch thicker, it dosen't seem to make any difference, All I can say is go look at them and see what you think. As for Elmtree in your area auburn sports and marine has them. Doug at great northwest fishing and archery on river road in puyallup has them, as well as fishermans den in yelm. I have an appointment with the people at sportco later in the week so look for them there soon. Other than that ask for them by name at your local dealer and that will help get them into mor places. Thanks Superfly

They also stock a huge selection at Barrier Dam Campground store on the Cowlitz.

PLEASE, SUPERFLY. Comparing your hooks to Gamakatsu is pathetic. You know as well as I that they are no comparison.

[This message has been edited by salmontackler (edited 03-27-2000).]

I fish Gammi's all the time. If I do try out a new hook it is when I am fishing for chums. I am still with Gammi's....tell you anything?

As with any product, you will have some folks who love them and others who hate them. I personally, as well as my fishing buddy, love them. As mentioned, they are way cheaper than most and are very sharp to boot. We have been using them sucessfully for about 6 months with no problems to speak of. You can get them from Outdoor Emporium cheaply downtown Seattle if interested.

I used vision hooks befor, I lked them alto. Only problem is.......I cant find them down here.
Superfly, Can I get them in bulk through you or someone else.
Gammies are good hooks, but you could go broke using them. I use VMC hooks. I can get 125 oh them for about 7 bucks. All ya do is touch em up witha file and you're ready to fish

Howdy,
I'm not being facetious when I say my favorite hook's are the one's I pull out of snag's. (I guess a lot of guy's don't wear chest wader's or just don't care to retrieve lost rig's) So I say snag, I mean buy Gonnacatchu's. The hook I'll spend money on is size 2 Danielson worm hook's. 39cent's for six. I usually won't use yarn, so I snip the snell off, slide a corkie on the mainline, tie a simple clinch knot and place a splitshot 18in. up the line. These hook's hold a shrimp chunk better than an egg hook. I'm dedicated to the KISS method!

I got a sample pack from superfly and would like to thank him for them. Thank you for the opportunity to evaluate the hooks and swivels.

I recieved bronze 3/0, red 3/0 hooks and some barrel swivels.
The swivels were of a very nice quality and would highly recommend you give them a try.

I found 1/3 of the hooks to be of a quality I could take out of the package and fish with. The second third of the hooks needed to be sharpened to meet my standards. And the last third were not of a quality I wished to fish at all. One of the hooks I received had the barb on the outside of the shaft. Two others had blunt points, another had the point circled. I also found that design of the point reminded me of a circle hook. Once into a fish I am sure it would hold nicely, the problem being I can't wait that long with steelhead to get the point.
The ability to get away from sharpening my hooks with vision hooks does not exist. Each hook needed to be inspected because of the inconsistancy in quality. If all the hooks had been of the best 1/3 quality they would get a sterling review from me....sorry :-(

I would recommend vision hooks above vmc, some eagle claw, but not above mustad or gamakatsu.

Hope this helps some of you make better decisions for hooks.
Tight lines




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Marty
www.steelheader.net
marty@steelheader.net

obviosly salmon tracker has never fished the hooks and has a problem with a free market society. I would like to know what store you work at. Peace Superfly

Superfly, stopped in at Auburn Sports and Marine to check out your hooks, I was looking for 4/0 octapus but the biggest I found were 3/0, is this the biggest hook you make or should I look elsewhere?

Superfly, just like the poster above "smilesforu" I found your hooks to be very inconsistent, undersized, and thick diametered.

[This message has been edited by salmontackler (edited 03-27-2000).]

AKKings, We make up to 8/0 in the octapus style hook, they have not put in the bigger sizes as of yet. Maybe ask Troy or Jeff to put them in. If you would like e-mail me and I will send you some 5/0's to try. We have already sold thousands of these this year to guides and lodges in Alaska, as well as some terminal gear commercial fisherman. Thank you for the interest. and Salmon Tackler, When I looked at your profile before it said fishing retail, sorry if I made a mistake. Peace Superfly

I have to agree with "smilesforu". I recently bought a hundred pack of vision at the outdoor emporium and decided to fish them exclusively to see how they faired. I found quite a few that were out of the package that were rather dull, and a couple that had the barbs on the outside?? I found that the hooks dulled quickly. The points are sharp but thin and the slightest knick on the bottom would dull them, I would keep inspecting the hooks after a slight snag and quickly found this out. I landed a few nice fish with these hooks but lost eight consecutive fish using these hooks. Fish that were hooked for a while, would suddenly come unpinned?? I quickly made the decision to stop using vision, and got rid of the remaining hooks. Though vision hooks are cheaper(less than half of Gammies) they don't seem as durable. I am back to gammies, and unless I hear rave reviews about another hook, I am hesitant to try another.--mike

I guess it is time to go on the offensive since so many of you out there think you are experts.
First to Kore, The Hooks do not bend over or dull as easy as you say they do, they are made of the exact type of steel that Gammies are, and they are chemically sharpend like gammies giving them the same sharp point. I will give you the fact that the quality control is not up to snuff yet, I am working on that, but we have only been around for a short while, obviously you don't remember all the problems gammy had there first 5 years in this country, I think my learning curve is far ahead of where they were at this time in the game. As for losing eight fish in a row, get real.
To salmontackler, the only hook on the market with smaller wire diameter is the Gammy,you make it sound like it is a 2x wire, why don't you put a mic on it and see for yourself.
to smiles for you, the visions are definatley better than the vmc's, eagle claw and mustads, I don't know what you are smokin up there in P.A, like I said we are working on quality control and should improve greatly when I change packagers. If the hooks were as bad as all of you say they are I would not be selling thousands upon thousands of them to guides. I sell more hooks to guides in this state than any other manufacturer. Besides they are all x-gammy staffers and rave about how good the hooks are, if you want some refrences let me know and I will post them.
Peace Superfly

it is a free world superflop. if you would have opened this post and then just took the criticism and made the hooks better I would have at least looked at the hooks. now when I see them all I will think of is this defensive little man who still chases chick.

Give us a list of guides you sell to!!

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Tight Lines!!

Superfly

I never said the hooks bent, I said the points are thinner and sharper and dull easy. Try it for yourself. Also buy a hundred pack of vision hooks dump them out and go through them you will find many that are sub par. As for me losing eight fish, I would say we should go fishing sometime, but I usually go fishing to get away from attitudes such as yours. If you don't want feed back on something, don't post it. --mike

Superfly
If you had looked at what you sent me as samples you would have gotten a good review. Because you wouldn't send them if you did!! I did find 1/3 to be of superior quality. The other 2/3 were crap. On the quality alone they don't match the consistantency of any other manufacturer. Who wants to have to sort their hooks to see which ones they can use?.....

On the best of the hooks you sent I did find them as sharp as gammies, but hell that is only 1/3. The 2/3 is the majority of your hooks....What the hell you smoking....I was honest in what I said about your hooks. If you bring all your hooks up to the top 1/3 then you got some fine hooks. I hope the criticism improves your hooks quality control!!!!!

Guides huh? A 100 dollar sticker on the side of your boat makes you an expert? I think not! Lets see if some of the "true greats" are on your sales list! POST THAT LIST! Sup...

to All, this post has given me information that will improve the Vision Product. I have been fighting the quality control battle for some time. The only way for me to improve it was to change packagers which is a huge task in itself and is being done now to improve the quality of the hooks that are on the shelves for the consumers to buy. I never asked to Be attacked Personally, but obviously there are still people out there that have nothing better to do. I am sorry for the way you feel , but I refuse to be that way , Grow up.
AS for a list of guides Here are a few Names Forks Area: Larry Scott, Bob Kratzer, Mike Zavadlov
Guides who fish all over: Chuck Wickens,Sean Orr , Don KInsey,Mike Kelly,Rich Mercado,Dan Little
Seattle area Guides: David Lee, Rod Bush,Jim Harrington, Doug Palmer, Chris Olsen, Bob Hammond
S.W Washington guides: Mike Sexton, Bear( Mike Pallas) Joe Little, Rich Bogle, Victor and Dawna's giude service.
Quinalt Guides: Letty potter, John Bryson (Tater) Robin Rhoades.
this is some of the guides I sell to , I hope it helps. Everyone have a good day!
Peace Superfly

Your original claim was that and I quote..."definetly as sharp right out of the box". Now if you'd have said 1/3 are as sharp and were working on the other 2/3rds, obiously some of us would have taken a differnt stance! I fish in Forks and bought a pack there. They were inconsistant but I like the price. And the ones that were good were really good. Most people have open minds and when the quality is up to our/or there standards then possibly we will give them another chance. At least I will. And hopefully some how some way sombody can produce a hook that is comparable to a Gammy...CONSISTANTLY. But until then youll have to keep working on those quality guys...
Let em read these posts...that may get there attention.
Believe me I deal with Quality too. Im an Eng at a corp whos iso9001 certified.
Anyway sorry for any bad feelings if there are any. But these reviews wiil help in the long run and your doing the right thing by asking the Hard Cores of the Sport side! We dont care what it costs if it greatly helps our success rate. I remember when catching 1 or 2 steelies a month was considered good, but now a slow day is 1 fish a day and pretty good is 3... Funny how it gets competitive. But man we need a hook that we dont have to worry about, after all there are plenty of other things in a battle with a hog you should be worring about. Not your terminal gear. Let us know when we should re-evaluate? Id be happy too!

By the way there are some really respected guides on that list. Thanks for the post!

Good fishing...

Bob D

Thanks for the post Bob D, I am working on the quality side of things like I said. I am going to have to take a trip to Asia this June or July in fact and visit the factories with my trading company reps. Besides being on the phone twice a week in the middle of the night gets old after a while, but they understand that we americans want A-1 quality first and formost, then price. I have had absolutley no problems with the hooks from size 1 and smaller, it is the 1/0 and up where I need to crack down on.
One thing I know is that I have to figure a way to use our Bass hooks in steelhead and Salmon fishing, they are just awsome, I could not believe it when I recieved the samples, we ordered right away and already have some large players in the Bass side of things very interested. also coming are si-wash, trebles ,Barbless and 4 styles of fly hooks.
Peace Superfly

I HAVE USED OVER 5000 VISION HOOKS THIS YEAR AND HAVE HAD NO PROBLEMS WITH STRENGHT OR SHARPNESS.I CAN SAY WE HAVE CAUGHT OVER 200 STEELHEAD ON THEM AND MAYBE LOST 1/2 DOZEN.
FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO THINK SUPERFLY IS JUST A SALESMAN YOUR WRONG .HE SPENDS MORE TIME ON THE RIVER THAN ANYONE I KNOW. FOR THOSE OF YOU THAT JUST TALK FISHING , GAMMI MIGHT BE THE BEST FOR YOU .FOR THOSE THAT FISH A LOT VISION HOOKS ARE THE BEST FOR THE MONEY!!
HOOKEM GUIDE SERVICE


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5000 hooks this season???

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Tight Lines!!

Yes Dick, he has used at least that many hooks, they boondog, and when your doing that with 3 to 5 clients in the boat at one time you can really rip through the leaders, plus they all fish double # 4's when fishing that way. As a hook supplier to these guys I absolutley love them, it is great for business. They also catch a hell of alot of fish. I would definatley book a trip with them if you have never fished this way before, a definate kick in the ass. Take Care
Superfly

Hookem, "caught 200 fish, lost maybe half a dozen" You are full of [Bleeeeep!]! So you are saying you lost only 1 fish for every 34 hooked? hmm, I believe that.

You only lost 6 fish all year??? Do you measure them with a bedroom scale, too?? Ya know, 8 inches is really 4 inches, etc.. Everyone quickly, put your chest waders on, the [Bleeeeep!] is piling up REALLY fast on this topic.

P.S.-- If you went through 5000 hooks to land 200 fish, that's 25 hooks per fish landed. OUCH!!! No wonder you use cheap hooks.


[This message has been edited by backlash2 (edited 03-30-2000).]

im a guide on the lower quinault river and have been using vision hooks this year and have had no problems with them at all!havent had any complaints from my clients either(just ordered 500 more!)i hear lots of stories, and people say they have broke or bent hooks,how? on a snag? if so at least you got the corkie back right??

Some of the morons on this site kill me. First of all I fish with HOOKEM (david lee)at least once a week and some times two days a week.I no of 4 separete days in the last two weeks when we hooked 10+ natives on the Snohomish system and we did not see another fish caught.As far as vision is concerned they are not the hook that the gammies are but for the dollar you cant beat them ,I personely went through close to 2500 of them myself.And yes david did use over 5000 of them.I think you people that are questioning superfly and davids integridy are jelous. I know for a fact that superfly caught over 1000 salmon last fall and and more steelhead this winter than the vast majorty of the people on this site.He dosn"t just talk out of his ass he backs it up with knoweldge and ability.SO I hope the next time some of you open your mouth you know who and what your talking about.

I've never used the hooks but I have done some free drifting and you can lose alot of hooks in 1 day!

I haven't jumped into this one to call B.S. up until this point. I've tried Vision hooks since its inception (hand-honed and dipped) to its current incarnation (chemically sharpened overseas). Personally, I preferred the former product, because of its quality and unique colors (I had good success using the dull orange finish for summer and fall kings). I will admit though, due to the relatively high price of Gamakatsu, the current Vision product has found a niche in the market. Also, as a former QC technician that used to grade seafood products from China and Russia, I can understand the quality control issues from any products coming from Asia and Eastern Europe.

But, 1000 salmon during the fall??? Now I consider myself a member of the proverbial "10 percent," and I've had awesome years where I've gone through ten to twelve salmon punchcards. But, 1000 in a 2-3 month period!!! These kinds of claims just make me question the integrity of the individual, and consequently the product as well.

Peace Out...

The disussion has taken an a turn in the wrong direction. It's gone from a hook debate to a fish-landing debate.

The way I see is this. Guides who boondog use ass-loads of hooks. I fish with Sean Orr quite a bit, and he literally has lawn & leaf sized garbage bags of pre-tied leaders ready. That's a TON of hooks. Superfly says Sean uses Visions, and the the sheer number of hooks he goes through, I can see why. I've never had a problem with his hooks, always tacky-sharp.

I personally don't go through 1/10th the hooks he does, so it's not a bank-breaker for me to shell out for Gammies. If Vision gets their QC problems worked out, I might start using them, but I get the feeling that the associated costs of getting the QC to an acceptable level may bring the price of Vision's a little closer to that of Gammies.

As for the rest of the stuff about numbers hooked/landed, just know that guides and their clients do hook many more fish than most guys ever do, so they have a pretty good feel for the gear they use. Not to say that some of us don't land lots of fish, but most of us don't head to the river with 6 rods and hundreds of leaders ready to go.

Anyway, maybe we should spare the BB the posts calling BS. If you feel a guy may be stroking himself, just thinking he's full of it is good enough. Posting a response saying so just gets everybody riled up.


Fish on..........

Man, I never thought one post would go this crazy , but I guess that is good, kind of like democrats and republicans. Yes I fish alot, august through the end of november I was on the water about 4 to 5 days a week, in the early am and then in the evenigs as well. The best way to decide if you had a good day fishing, besides catching fish is if you learned something new , And if have and it helped you catch more fish or a fish then it was a sucessful day. My motto, I can learn something from every fisherman out there because there are alot of good ones. the next thing I have learned is the crazyness that can be stirred up with controversial post on the big BB's site. I will see you all soon on the steps of the capitol! peace superfly

Dan no need to play peacemaker. I don't have a problem with Joe and Vision Hooks per se. My reply was merely a "nice" reactionary post to the dude with the condescending attitude. While I don't know Marty and Mike K. personally, we've been discussing steelhead/salmon issues and techniques for over a year now. So when some dude that has only posted a half dozen times calls them "morons," I felt compelled to say something. It's like when we all jumped NoodleRodder for his inappropriate comment last year.

Anyway, just because free drifter "hooked" ten on the Snohomish system, are we supposed to be impressed? All of a sudden he has clout? "I have traveled the world and successfully conquered its greatest gamefish: tarpon, taimen, and the mighty mahseer!!!" now I suppose I have clout for saying this.

freedrifter you're totally contradictory. In one sentence you mention integrity. In the next you claim Joe caught "OVER 1000 salmon last fall."

Now Joe, I don't doubt you are a badass fisher. But, you say you fish 4-5 days per week during Aug, Sept, Oct and Nov. If indeed you landed over 1000 salmon, at the very least you averaged over 15 per day. This means on those days when the conditions were poor and you got skunked, you'd have to make it up the next time with a thirty-fish day, landed. If you say you are a dedicated chum slayer and chase the dogs everyday, then this number may have some merit. But this I highly doubt. Besides, last year sucked for chums.

free drifter, as a fellow fisher I too have been guilty of inflating my or my buddies' catch numbers. But please don't claim B.S. catch numbers and use it in tandem with an "I am better than you" attitude. Veteran members of this board have seen these kinds of attitudes and rejected them long ago.

Hey evrybody lets get back to the topic of hooks. To hohwaiian, I envy the fact that you have traveled abroad and caught all those cool fish. I can't wait until my business is at the point to were I can do that. Maybe you can help me out , What styles of hooks do they use for tarpon and snook and drum and all those other fish they catch in those regions? Thanks superfly

I think the discussion of hooks has long ended. It has become a who-is-who debate. Superfly no offense, but you are a salesman of vision hooks and should learn to take a few negative comments of your product, and not go on the offensive, when you get one and try to discredit the person saying the comment. Use these comments to perhaps address potential concerns. This thread should be closed.