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#892327 - 04/18/14 07:02 PM Puget Sound Hatchery Steelhead Petition
Isaac Offline
Parr

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 69
Loc: Seattle
Saw this on another more informative site and thought that I would post it here for those who are pro-hatchery fish. It only takes a minute fill out and send.

https://www.votervoice.net/mobile/CCAPNW/Campaigns/35668/Respond

Updated


Edited by Isaac (04/19/14 05:22 PM)

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#892351 - 04/18/14 08:25 PM Re: Puget Sound Hatchery Steelhead Petition [Re: Isaac]
Salman Offline
Spawner

Registered: 03/07/12
Posts: 806
Nothin' wrong with a bunch of 3lb hatchery fish.
_________________________
Why build in the flood plain?

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#892364 - 04/18/14 09:40 PM Re: Puget Sound Hatchery Steelhead Petition [Re: Salman]
Double Haul Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 03/07/99
Posts: 1558
Loc: Wherever I can swing for wild ...
No thanks, I prefer wild steelhead


Edited by Double Haul (04/18/14 09:58 PM)
_________________________
Decisions and changes seldom occur by posting on Internet bulletin boards.

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#892367 - 04/18/14 10:26 PM Re: Puget Sound Hatchery Steelhead Petition [Re: Double Haul]
OncyT Offline
Spawner

Registered: 02/06/08
Posts: 506
Double Haul, what I noticed you said before you edited your comment is "No thanks, I am pro-wild stealhead." Well I am pro-wild steelhead as well and also pro-responsible hatchery management.

I will not sign the petition, as I simply don't sign internet petitions, but the italicized text below is the message that I take from the petition:

Please click here (or below) to send an email to WDFW Director Phil Anderson and the Fish and Wildlife Commission urging them to support the continuation of Puget Sound hatchery programs now and into the future through continued responsible, science-driven management that recognizes the importance of wild steelhead recovery and the value of steelhead fisheries to our state's economy and way of life.

That is an approach that anyone that has any common sense should support. Keep in mind that even though you will probably prevent the release of these 900K fish this year because of lack of action by NFMS, WDFW, or both, that is a long way from showing that these particular programs are likely to prevent the recovery of Puget Sound steelhead.

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#892372 - 04/18/14 11:20 PM Re: Puget Sound Hatchery Steelhead Petition [Re: OncyT]
Double Haul Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 03/07/99
Posts: 1558
Loc: Wherever I can swing for wild ...
I think the key word is science-driven management. If the science tells us that hatchery steelhead are a detriment to wild recovery are folks willing to accept it and support it without bias to their opportunity at the expense of wild steelhead or blinded to their economic gains by forsaking wild steelhead for hatchery fish. It all depends on your priorities. My personal priority will always be to put wild steelhead first, to me, there is no substitute and I want them in my future and my children's future. If I don't, I personally feel I would be selling my soul. So in the end, regardless of what I wrote at the top, yes I am pro wild steelhead and they come before hatchery steelhead in my preferences, but I will whack hatchery fish get my hands on to get them out of the system. I hope I don't get the "elitist a sucks" emoticon, but if I do so be it.



Edited by Double Haul (04/20/14 05:16 PM)
_________________________
Decisions and changes seldom occur by posting on Internet bulletin boards.

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#892377 - 04/19/14 12:07 AM Re: Puget Sound Hatchery Steelhead Petition [Re: Double Haul]
TastySalmon Offline
Smolt

Registered: 04/16/14
Posts: 77
Loc: Lake Samish
Originally Posted By: Double Haul
I think the key word is science-driven management. If the science tells us that hatchery steelhead are a detriment to wild recovery are folks willing to accept it and support it without bias to their opportunity at the expense of wild steelhead or blinded to their economic gains by forsaking wild steelhead for hatchery fish. It all depends on your priorities. My personal priority will always be to put wild steelhead first, to me, there is no substitute and I want them in my future and my children's future. If I don't, I personally feel I would be selling my soul. So in the end, regardless of what I wrote at the top, yes I am pro wild steelhead and they come before hatchery steelhead in my preferences, but I will whack everyone of them I get my hands on. I hope I don't get the "elitist a sucks" emoticon, but if I do so be it.



If you cared about wild steelhead, the threat from hatchery steelhead should be on the bottom of your list of known problems preventing healthy natural steelhead populations.

Perhaps you could put some effort into educating people about the effects of substantial loss of habitat and alteration, dams, dikes, development, agriculture, and logging.

Also, when it can be proved that hatchery programs inhibit the performance of natural PS steelhead, please put me on the mailing list so I can get the evidence.

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#892378 - 04/19/14 12:12 AM Re: Puget Sound Hatchery Steelhead Petition [Re: TastySalmon]
Salman Offline
Spawner

Registered: 03/07/12
Posts: 806
Originally Posted By: TastySalmon
Originally Posted By: Double Haul
I think the key word is science-driven management. If the science tells us that hatchery steelhead are a detriment to wild recovery are folks willing to accept it and support it without bias to their opportunity at the expense of wild steelhead or blinded to their economic gains by forsaking wild steelhead for hatchery fish. It all depends on your priorities. My personal priority will always be to put wild steelhead first, to me, there is no substitute and I want them in my future and my children's future. If I don't, I personally feel I would be selling my soul. So in the end, regardless of what I wrote at the top, yes I am pro wild steelhead and they come before hatchery steelhead in my preferences, but I will whack everyone of them I get my hands on. I hope I don't get the "elitist a sucks" emoticon, but if I do so be it.



If you cared about wild steelhead, the threat from hatchery steelhead should be on the bottom of your list of known problems preventing healthy natural steelhead populations.

Perhaps you could put some effort into educating people about the effects of substantial loss of habitat and alteration, dams, dikes, development, agriculture, and logging.

Also, when it can be proved that hatchery programs inhibit the performance of natural PS steelhead, please put me on the mailing list so I can get the evidence.



Put me on your mailing list too.
_________________________
Why build in the flood plain?

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#892379 - 04/19/14 12:14 AM Re: Puget Sound Hatchery Steelhead Petition [Re: Salman]
Salman Offline
Spawner

Registered: 03/07/12
Posts: 806
I haven't seen evidence of hatchery Steelhead improving the performance of Native run Steelhead, have you?
_________________________
Why build in the flood plain?

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#892380 - 04/19/14 12:16 AM Re: Puget Sound Hatchery Steelhead Petition [Re: Isaac]
AP a.k.a. Kaiser D Offline
Hippie

Registered: 01/31/02
Posts: 4533
Loc: B'ham
That link works as well as my local hatchery.

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#892382 - 04/19/14 12:19 AM Re: Puget Sound Hatchery Steelhead Petition [Re: AP a.k.a. Kaiser D]
Salman Offline
Spawner

Registered: 03/07/12
Posts: 806
_________________________
Why build in the flood plain?

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#892390 - 04/19/14 12:59 AM Re: Puget Sound Hatchery Steelhead Petition [Re: Salman]
N W Panhandler Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 01/05/07
Posts: 1560
Loc: Bremerton, Wa.
If all wild fish work so well, why have we not got huge runs now in the Nisqually river. Its been closed to catch and keep steelhead for about twenty years..........
_________________________
A little common sense is good, more is better.
Kitsap Chapter CCA


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#892401 - 04/19/14 10:03 AM Re: Puget Sound Hatchery Steelhead Petition [Re: N W Panhandler]
Jerry Garcia Offline



Registered: 10/13/00
Posts: 9160
Loc: everett
You can't beat wild steelhead down to the tipping point and then say "see, it doesn't work to protect them".
_________________________
would the boy you were be proud of the man you are

Growing old ain't for wimps
Lonnie Gane

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#892409 - 04/19/14 11:04 AM Re: Puget Sound Hatchery Steelhead Petition [Re: Isaac]
Blktailhunter Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 08/07/09
Posts: 485
Originally Posted By: Isaac
Saw this on another more informative site and thought that I would post it here for those who are pro-hatchery fish. It only takes a minute fill out and send.

https://www.votervoice.net/mobile/CCAPN ... 68/Respond


I clicked on the link and it said file not found. Was the petition removed?

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#892412 - 04/19/14 11:21 AM Re: Puget Sound Hatchery Steelhead Petition [Re: Jerry Garcia]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7412
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
Why not, Jerry? isn't that exactly what we are doing?

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#892427 - 04/19/14 01:51 PM Re: Puget Sound Hatchery Steelhead Petition [Re: Carcassman]
Todd Offline
Dick Nipples

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 28170
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
There's no doubt in my mind that losing the very people who care most about wild steelhead...steelhead fishermen...is very detrimental to wild steelhead.

Fish on...

Todd
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Team Flying Super Ditch Pickle


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#892435 - 04/19/14 05:42 PM Re: Puget Sound Hatchery Steelhead Petition [Re: ]
Isaac Offline
Parr

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 69
Loc: Seattle
I updated the link so that it works as of right now. I get the feeling that some of the mods around here don't want it to work.

I think that the Nisqually is an excellent example of why getting rid of hatchery fish will not work to bring back the wild fish.
The Puyallup river and the Cedar river are other examples of wild steelhead not recovering in the absence of hatchery fish. If it did not work in these rivers then it will not work to close down the rest of the puget sound steelhead hatcheries. I don't know why you would need any more of scientific evidence than that.

Would you also blame the decline of wild fish on the Sauk because of hatchery fish? The blame there is in part due to those of you who fished on them when it was open and you know who you are. Many of the same people here on this forum who fished on those native Sauk fish are now advocating to close down the hatcheries. The decline of the Sauk fish is also in part due to pollution and some decreased habitat. But there is no doubt in my mind that the people who claim that they care so much about wild steelhead are also the ones who were fishing for them when the Sauk was open thus causing detriment to the wild fish themselves.

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#892480 - 04/20/14 10:56 AM Re: Puget Sound Hatchery Steelhead Petition [Re: Isaac]
Jerry Garcia Offline



Registered: 10/13/00
Posts: 9160
Loc: everett
Originally Posted By: Isaac
I updated the link so that it works as of right now. I get the feeling that some of the mods around here don't want it to work.





Do you have some sort of proof to back this up? Maybe something was wrong with your link. These guys are smart enough to copy and paste a link.
_________________________
would the boy you were be proud of the man you are

Growing old ain't for wimps
Lonnie Gane

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#892487 - 04/20/14 12:29 PM Re: Puget Sound Hatchery Steelhead Petition [Re: Jerry Garcia]
N W Panhandler Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 01/05/07
Posts: 1560
Loc: Bremerton, Wa.
For the CCA Voter Voice Link go to ccawashington.org and click on action......


www.ccawashington.org/‎
Puget Sound Steelhead Lawsuit. Tue, 08 Apr 2014... On March 31, 2014 the Wild Fish Conservancy filed a lawsuit against the Washington Department of Fish .

something not right here, should be a live link, google same and you will get there, perhaps something wrong with this website.


Edited by N W Panhandler (04/20/14 12:34 PM)
_________________________
A little common sense is good, more is better.
Kitsap Chapter CCA


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#892493 - 04/20/14 01:35 PM Re: Puget Sound Hatchery Steelhead Petition [Re: AP a.k.a. Kaiser D]
Met'lheadMatt Offline
Spawner

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 723
It seems Wild and in basin hatchery stock do very well in Oregon, mixed togather, look at the Umpqua, they have met Wild carrying capacity for 30 years and still have some hatchery fish as a surplus.

The problem we face, is in Washington we manage for minimum escapement, and anything over is considered harvestable by the Tribes and to some extent by the Dept. Until we shift to managing for maximum carrying capacity, We are going to gain nothing as far as wild fish are concerned.

Responsible hatchery practices do not hinder wild fish, they do not compete with wild fish, until carrying capacity is achivied. And in Washington we will never see maximum carrying capacity, So let responsible supplementation begin or continue.

So as long as netting continues, wild fish are retained by both interests and we manage for minimum escapement, Wild fish filling our streams is just a pipe dream. Shift all focus to maximum carrying capacity, with all parties on board and it will become a reality...


Edited by Met'lheadMatt (04/20/14 01:43 PM)

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#892499 - 04/20/14 02:51 PM Re: Puget Sound Hatchery Steelhead Petition [Re: AP a.k.a. Kaiser D]
ripple Offline
Smolt

Registered: 08/24/99
Posts: 88
Loc: Auburn, WA
I'm with Double Haul on this one. Science based evidence in there! Chambers creek hatchery fish are detrimental to wild stocks period!
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When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. HST.

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