#903849 - 08/25/14 10:28 AM
'Warm blob' keeps sockeye run away from U.S.
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River Nutrients
Registered: 10/04/06
Posts: 4047
Loc: Kent, WA
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'Warm blob' keeps possible record sockeye run away from U.S. waters In a development that has left local fishermen scratching their heads, it appears an unusually warm section of ocean water is helping send nearly the entire sockeye salmon run into Canadian fishing waters this season. According to data from the Pacific Salmon Commission through Tuesday, Aug. 19, in recent weeks about 99 percent of the sockeye salmon has gone through the Johnstone Strait around the northern part of Vancouver Island into Canadian waters. That's made a big difference in who is catching the fish: Nearly 2.9 million sockeye salmon have been caught in Canadian waters, while the U.S. fishermen had caught around 98,000 through Aug. 19. During a typical sockeye salmon run, about 50 percent of the run goes around the south end of Vancouver Island through the Strait of Juan .... Read more here: http://www.bellinghamherald.com/2014/08/...1#storylink=cpy
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If you must burn our flag, Please! wrap yourself in it. Puget Sound Anglers, So. King Co. CCA SeaTac Chapter
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#903851 - 08/25/14 10:42 AM
Re: 'Warm blob' keeps sockeye run away from U.S.
[Re: Phoenix77]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7428
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
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What really isn't well covered in the article is that the US is fishing to a quota. If all the run had come through Juan de Fuca they would still have the same quota. Hopefully, the normal Adams delay at the mouth will spill over into US waters. The reef netters may not see many, but the gillies, seiners, and sporties will be able to chase them.
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#903867 - 08/25/14 02:15 PM
Re: 'Warm blob' keeps sockeye run away from U.S.
[Re: Carcassman]
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Returning Adult
Registered: 04/07/06
Posts: 289
Loc: Bellingham, WA
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I was out near the mouth of the Fraser this weekend, and with the amount of seiners and gill netters I had to avoid, the warm blob was...well....I had some 'oh crap' moments.
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#903870 - 08/25/14 02:22 PM
Re: 'Warm blob' keeps sockeye run away from U.S.
[Re: fever]
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Three Time Spawner
Registered: 12/29/99
Posts: 1611
Loc: Vancouver, Washington
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I remain unconvinced that anyone in the U.S. can stake a claim to Fraser River sockeye. I realize that one of the reasons we take sockeye is that the Canadians take alot of Chinook bound for the U.S., including Columbia River Chinook. So, as a trade, we take their sockeye.
But I would rather have the Canadians keep all the sockeye, and let the U.S. Chinook go thru unmolested. But perhaps that's unrealistic.
Edited by cohoangler (08/25/14 02:23 PM)
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#903871 - 08/25/14 02:33 PM
Re: 'Warm blob' keeps sockeye run away from U.S.
[Re: cohoangler]
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Returning Adult
Registered: 06/28/00
Posts: 452
Loc: Rocky Mountain High
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But I would rather have the Canadians keep all the sockeye, and let the U.S. Chinook go thru unmolested. But perhaps that's unrealistic.
that would be great, but i'm sure the sporties from the queen charlottes down the outside of vancouver island would have some issues with it. year round chinook fishing sure would be nice.
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#903872 - 08/25/14 02:36 PM
Re: 'Warm blob' keeps sockeye run away from U.S.
[Re: cohoangler]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4411
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
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I remain unconvinced that anyone in the U.S. can stake a claim to Fraser River sockeye. Well unless something has changed the US paid to fix the slide on the Fraser way back and in return the US got fishing rights. Could be wrong but I am sure someone can correct it if that has changed.
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#903875 - 08/25/14 03:03 PM
Re: 'Warm blob' keeps sockeye run away from U.S.
[Re: Rivrguy]
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Dick Nipples
Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 28170
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
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The US fishermen have fishing rights to those sockey because of the restoration efforts that the US and Canada both shared in clearing the slide at Hells Gate and building the fishways...unlikely to see that change, those sockeye are BIG money.
Fish on...
Todd
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#903879 - 08/25/14 03:32 PM
Re: 'Warm blob' keeps sockeye run away from U.S.
[Re: Todd]
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Three Time Spawner
Registered: 12/29/99
Posts: 1611
Loc: Vancouver, Washington
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Not quite. The blockage at Hell's Gate prompted an international dispute between the U.S. and Canada regarding the decline of Fraser Rv sockeye. The U.S. helped to pay for the fish ladders that were subsequently installed at Hell's Gate, but that action did not give the U.S. the right to a harvest allocation of Canadian sockeye.
However, the dispute was the basis for the development of the Pacific Salmon Treaty, which is currently the foundation of salmon management between the U.S. and Canada. So, the Hell's Gate slide provided the impetus for a management agreement (PST), but not an annual allocation.
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#903943 - 08/26/14 10:22 AM
Re: 'Warm blob' keeps sockeye run away from U.S.
[Re: Phoenix77]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7428
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
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The US has been fishing Fraser sockeye since the 1800s. Initially, when most of the fish came through the Straits, the US corked Canada. Canada wanted a treaty but WA said no. What finally got the US to the table was a high diversion rate (no fish in US) coupled with the results of Hells Gate and persistent overfishing. That led to the Sockeye treaty where the US and Canada shared the costs of management and restoration. Sharing fish was 50:50 in what was designated as "Convention Waters". Eventually, Canada thought this a bad trade.
Their response was to aggressively go after US coho and Chinook (VCI troll and all the sport camps). That still disn't work, well, until they also ramped up sockeye fishing outside of Convention Waters. Allowing only enough fish through to meet escapement needs (meaning no US fishing) got the US attention.
That led to the new treaty which gave the US a rather fixed "quota". Joe Blum tried to trade away non-Indian sockeye for coho but even the Tribes opposed that.
I doubt Canada would want to trade sockeye for coho and Chinook as their troll and sport industries are important to their economy. That would hammer all the Queen Charlotte, Tofino, Uculet fisheries and what would those folks do? Or all the US folks who patronize them.
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#904043 - 08/26/14 06:50 PM
Re: 'Warm blob' keeps sockeye run away from U.S.
[Re: Carcassman]
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Returning Adult
Registered: 06/28/00
Posts: 452
Loc: Rocky Mountain High
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...That would hammer all the Queen Charlotte, Tofino, Uculet fisheries and what would those folks do? Or all the US folks who patronize them.
those US folks could enjoy longer seasons in the US. we have traded tons of recreational opportunity for non-tribal sockeye fishing. bad deal for the state and the coastal and strait ports who would see longer seasons and/or increased bag limits.
Edited by topwater (08/26/14 06:50 PM)
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#904314 - 08/28/14 09:17 PM
Re: 'Warm blob' keeps sockeye run away from U.S.
[Re: Carcassman]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 10/04/06
Posts: 4047
Loc: Kent, WA
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Warm waters sending salmon to Canada, not Wash http://www.komonews.com/news/local/Warm-waters-sending-salmon-to-Canada-not-Wash-273060801.htmlWhat is confusing to me is: I have always been taught that salmon head for the waters in which they hatched. So, why does warm water send them to strange waters?
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I fish, ergo, I am.
If you must burn our flag, Please! wrap yourself in it. Puget Sound Anglers, So. King Co. CCA SeaTac Chapter
I love my country but fear my government
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#904324 - 08/28/14 09:32 PM
Re: 'Warm blob' keeps sockeye run away from U.S.
[Re: Phoenix77]
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Returning Adult
Registered: 06/28/00
Posts: 452
Loc: Rocky Mountain High
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they're still going to the river in which they were hatched... just travelling down the east side of the island versus down the strait.
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#904360 - 08/29/14 01:06 AM
Re: 'Warm blob' keeps sockeye run away from U.S.
[Re: Phoenix77]
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Juvenile at Sea
Registered: 08/12/13
Posts: 108
Loc: Arlington, Washington
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What the Komo news story doesn't tell you is that these sockeye are Fraser River stocks. They are returning to their home waters just not traveling through Washington waters to do it, in the numbers that they usually do. Most of them are going down the east side of Vancouver Island to the Fraser River.
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#904392 - 08/29/14 11:30 AM
Re: 'Warm blob' keeps sockeye run away from U.S.
[Re: Brent K]
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Three Time Spawner
Registered: 12/29/99
Posts: 1611
Loc: Vancouver, Washington
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Correct. In most years, the sockeye migrate along the west side of Vancouver Island, thru the Strait of Juan de Fuca, and then north to the mouth of the Fraser River. When those fish move into Washington State waters (mostly in the Strait of Juan de Fuca) they are subject to Washington State fisheries (whether it's justified is a different question). The U.S. and Canada negotiate how many sockeye can be caught in U.S. waters (i.e., in Washington State).
However, in some years, the fish do not migrate on the west side of Vancouver island. They move south thru Johnstone Strait to the mouth of the Fraser River, so they never enter U.S. waters. So they are not subject to Washington State fisheries. If you look on a map, it would appear that the shortest route is thru Johnstone Strait, so one would think the sockeye would take this route every year. But no. For whatever reason, they normally take the long way around Vancouver Island, and subject themselves to U.S. fisheries. But not this year.
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#904412 - 08/29/14 01:19 PM
Re: 'Warm blob' keeps sockeye run away from U.S.
[Re: cohoangler]
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Juvenile at Sea
Registered: 08/12/13
Posts: 108
Loc: Arlington, Washington
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I believe most of the water in the Strait of Georgia(which the Fraser flows into) flows south and out through the Canadian Gulf Islands and our San Juan Islands and then into the Strait of Juan de Fuca. This is probably why the Fraser stocks usually come down the west side of Vancouver Island and into US waters.
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#904417 - 08/29/14 01:54 PM
Re: 'Warm blob' keeps sockeye run away from U.S.
[Re: Brent K]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7428
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
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Every year there is "diversion" through Johnstone. Not unusual to have many/most go that way but it is rare for such a huge fraction to do so.
As I noted before, it was just such a diversion that finally US to negotiate a sockeye treaty; when the Canadians could cork the US. As long as the US corked Canada it was ok.
At least while I was involved, the data showed that the route sockeye adults took home had no relationship to the route they took to the ocean. All the smolts may go one way, the 4 year olds come home by the west side and the 5s by the east.
The data for Fraser sockeye is so vastly superior to anything used down here that it is amazing. Lots has been invested in learning how those fish live.
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#904437 - 08/29/14 03:48 PM
Re: 'Warm blob' keeps sockeye run away from U.S.
[Re: Carcassman]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 08/26/02
Posts: 4709
Loc: Sequim
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