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#906112 - 09/15/14 12:39 AM Slaying Coho
Fishyfeller Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 06/22/13
Posts: 191
Loc: Port Angeles, Wa
Coho fishing all through the Straits have been off the hook last few weeks. Only problem is you have to catch 5-10 unclipped before you get a clipped fish.

We caught well over 60 fish last weekend to finally get 10 clipped fish. This weekend was a bit slower with 35 or so fish caught to get 3 clipped . Fish are on the smaller side averaging 4-7 pounds.
Its fun to catch all those fish, but its a bit frustrating watching a badly hooked fish you know is going to die, swim/float away.

I understand releasing the unclipped fish to help the wild stocks, but the math doesn't seem to add up. I figured, out of the 80+ unclipped fish caught, I bet a good 10-25 of them died. Seems to me if you just allowed first 2 fish caught to be retained. More unclipped fish would survive.

In a few weeks it will be moot when unclipped can be retained.


Edited by Fishyfeller (09/15/14 12:41 AM)

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#906116 - 09/15/14 12:45 AM Re: Slaying Coho [Re: Fishyfeller]
ReefSkunk
Unregistered


It's a shame you chose to kill so many fish, just to bonk some 4 lb runts 2cents


With that said I agree that there should be some adjustment to the rules. I like the idea of catch two and you're done, if one or both are hatchery bonk em. If it's open to harvesting finned fish then bonk your two of either and split.

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#906128 - 09/15/14 09:21 AM Re: Slaying Coho [Re: ]
OlyFishin Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 10/29/06
Posts: 266
Loc: Olympia
I've stopped fishing coho in the Straits for that very reason. I remember days at Sekiu in late August or early September with 20+ wild releases and bringing home 2 fish. Just didn't feel right. Now I will fish the unselective openings but that's it. Or, more often, I fish MA9.

Difficult call to make because the fishing is SO good up there at times.

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#906130 - 09/15/14 10:18 AM Re: Slaying Coho [Re: OlyFishin]
bob r Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 04/17/13
Posts: 289
I remember 10 years back or so, asking an enforcement clown why we kill so many silvers, why not keep the 1st two? His response was that the resorts would only have two weeks worth of business, I told him I didn't care if they ALL went out of business if that's the deal. If we had this 1st two fish whether wild or not rule in a few years maybe we would have enough fish to allow wild retention. I could care less about resort owners vrs. fish stocks, but wdfw sucks big time when making decisions concerning fish stocks. We haven't been up there in years. Bob R

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#906133 - 09/15/14 10:39 AM Re: Slaying Coho [Re: bob r]
topwater Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 06/28/00
Posts: 452
Loc: Rocky Mountain High
What gear are you fishing that causes so much damage to fish you have to release? Change that and the mortality goes way down.

Those who would give up long seasons for a week or two fishery are crazy.

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#906135 - 09/15/14 10:55 AM Re: Slaying Coho [Re: topwater]
Smalma Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/25/01
Posts: 2844
Loc: Marysville
In today's world of ESA listed salmon , US -Canada treaty with hard caps on impacts on stocks of concern (in the Straits coho case it is upper Fraser wild coho) and weak stock management selective fishing is less about limiting impacts on wild stocks and more about using whatever acceptable impacts that are available to access as many other fish as possible.

In the case of the coho fisheries on the north outer coast/Neah Bay and Sekiu the same numbers of wild upper Fraser coho that die in the fisheries will be the same whether the fishery is non-selective (kill unclipped fish) or selective (release unclipped fish). However the difference is the amount of fishing available (season length) and numbers of hatchery fish taken.

In the case of fishing non-selective the likely result would be coho seasons in the western straits/outer coast for the that would be two weeks or so long compared to the existing season that stretches over a couple months. It really comes down to what the angler community prefers as a whole. Today through the North of Falcon salmon season setting process it has been pretty clear that folks (and yes that includes the resorts) prefer the longest opportunities possible. If you don't like that option get involved in the process and make your case why something other than the current structure is better.

Curt

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#906378 - 09/17/14 05:55 PM Re: Slaying Coho [Re: Fishyfeller]
gooybob Offline
Spawner

Registered: 03/01/11
Posts: 993
Loc: Tacoma
The good side of that is that the natives may be on the rebound.

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#906400 - 09/17/14 08:19 PM Re: Slaying Coho [Re: gooybob]
bushbear Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 08/26/02
Posts: 4709
Loc: Sequim
Interestingly, the Canadians go to a 1 wild fish in their daily bag in their areas 19 and 20 starting September with a 5% impact on their side. We have a 10% impact on our side and have to wait for a couple of weeks in MA 5 to go non-selective and October 1 in MA 6. It would appear, to me at least, that someone on the N side of the line has a different idea about impacts on Thompson River coho or am I missing something.

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#906492 - 09/18/14 07:29 PM Re: Slaying Coho [Re: bushbear]
GutZ Offline
The Original Boat Ho

Registered: 02/08/00
Posts: 2954
Loc: Bellevue
Fishy,
What are you using? Have you considered other tackle? I am pretty sure you have, as you have voiced your concern here, but I still would like to hear.

Overall, do you think a single Siwash 5/0 or 6/0 causes less damage than a herring rig? I have hootchy rigs set up both ways. Even being able to keep both clipped or unclipped in 9/10 I haven't killed 25 wink
_________________________
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***GutZ***

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#906498 - 09/18/14 08:23 PM Re: Slaying Coho [Re: GutZ]
bob r Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 04/17/13
Posts: 289
My wife and I used to fish the straits (Neah Bay and Seiku) and had issues with the wild fish to hatchery ratios with damaged fish being released.We started using an item called a hoochie devil, made by scotty and then sold to the e-chip pro-troll folks who discontinued it. The point (no pun intended) is that it uses a single large 4/0 0r 5/0 siwash hook and the setup has a stop to controll where the hoochie is in relation to the hook. We had as many hook-ups and just as many came in as the traditional two hook set-up. A LOT less fish were deeply hooked, that trailing hook that can tear up gills or eyes isn't there, I've seen these single set-ups on commercial trollers as well. I can attest to the fact that single hooks are just as effective and a LOT less damaging to fish that must be released. There is an item being made now called a wiggle hoochie by shasta tackle, they are smaller but with the same lip and hoochie attached. John Keiser (salt patrol) uses them for blackmouth by swapping out the light leader and double hooks (they are made for kokanee) and using a single 2/0 to 4/0.He says they match the smaller bait. The hoochie devils are no longer available, Melanie and I bought out a lot of their remaining stock. The same single hook set-up can be done without this device by puttung a stop on leader above hook to keep the single point further down the hoochie and will kill less wild fish. With a flasher or dodger the hoochie has good action and slays the silvers in the straits while keeping our released wild stock safer. good luck, Bob R

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#906516 - 09/18/14 10:36 PM Re: Slaying Coho [Re: bob r]
bushbear Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 08/26/02
Posts: 4709
Loc: Sequim
I run my hootchies with a 5/0 Matzuo sickle hook. A lot easier on the fish that need to be released. I use a large swivel (100# test) for the hook, a couple of beads, and a tinsel skirt. The end result is the tentacles sit just ahead of the bend of the hook. I use 50# fluorocarbon and a leader that is 18" to 20" long. The action behind a Q Cove flasher is pretty strong. The fish tend to hit pretty hard. I don't get a lot of "remote" releases off the down rigger.

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#906517 - 09/18/14 10:57 PM Re: Slaying Coho [Re: bob r]
Fishyfeller Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 06/22/13
Posts: 191
Loc: Port Angeles, Wa
25 fish maybe a bit of an exaggeration. But if you figure 10-15% of the fish hooked will die later and your catching 80 or more fish in a weekend that 10-15% adds up. That's just one boat, I see 50+ boats trailers parked at the launch.
I don't think its just me hooking that many fish.

I was thinking of switching to a single hook set up, or switching from hootchies to spoons. I have been experimenting with different gear to see what works and it seems it doesn't matter what you use, when they are biting, they will go after anything that looks edible.

The fishing seems to be tapering off lately, but you still have to catch 5-10 fish before you get an unclipped one. Just takes longer to get your 2 keepers.

It sure would be nice though when the ratios are that high they would allow retention of a few of those that are unclipped. You can keep it if you know its mortally wounded rule would be nice , but we all know that would just get abused.

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#906519 - 09/18/14 11:06 PM Re: Slaying Coho [Re: Fishyfeller]
ReefSkunk
Unregistered


So you recognize that it's wrong to kill a bunch of unclipped Coho in your search for 1 or 2 clipped runts, yet you continue to do it. I don't get it.

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#906562 - 09/19/14 03:04 PM Re: Slaying Coho [Re: ]
humble-hubby Offline
Fry

Registered: 05/14/12
Posts: 38
Loc: CHEHALIS, WA
Another important point is to learn to release fish without netting them and especially without bringing them in the boat. Using a gaff Sitka style or an ARC dehooker is really kind to the fish. It is rare to kill a fish with herring or hootchies even with a double hook rig in my hands as far as I can tell.

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#906651 - 09/20/14 04:23 PM Re: Slaying Coho [Re: bushbear]
eldplanko Offline
Fry

Registered: 06/27/12
Posts: 31
Originally Posted By: bushbear
I run my hootchies with a 5/0 Matzuo sickle hook. A lot easier on the fish that need to be released. I use a large swivel (100# test) for the hook, a couple of beads, and a tinsel skirt. The end result is the tentacles sit just ahead of the bend of the hook. I use 50# fluorocarbon and a leader that is 18" to 20" long. The action behind a Q Cove flasher is pretty strong. The fish tend to hit pretty hard. I don't get a lot of "remote" releases off the down rigger.


I use almost the same set-up, learned it from a Canadian guide. Funny thing, the little guys will still hit that single big hook, they're just easier to release with a de-hooker (I do the gaff thing too, just get the gaff in the bend of that big hook; twist the wrist, and the fish is free, no net, doesn't touch the boat, or even leave the water).


Edited by eldplanko (09/20/14 04:27 PM)

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#906772 - 09/21/14 03:16 PM Re: Slaying Coho [Re: eldplanko]
Wild Chrome Offline
Spawner

Registered: 12/14/01
Posts: 646
Loc: The Tailout
I've never fished up there and I'm more of a wading tributary guy. That said, the choice of gear has a huge impact on fish mortality. I have a hard time seeing the need for hooks that big, especially multiple hooks, for 4-7 pound fish. The last coho I got was an 8 lber that took a spinner with a #1 hook square in the lip. There's gotta be a way to do it better up there. Perhaps the regs need to be changed to limit damage to the fish? I agree with the OP that it might be better to allow limited wild fish retention.
_________________________
If every fisherman would pick up one piece of trash, we'd have cleaner rivers and more access.

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#906775 - 09/21/14 04:54 PM Re: Slaying Coho [Re: Fishyfeller]
kalamageo Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 02/27/07
Posts: 297
Loc: Oly
Originally Posted By: Fishyfeller
Coho fishing all through the Straits have been off the hook last few weeks. Only problem is you have to catch 5-10 unclipped before you get a clipped fish.

We caught well over 60 fish last weekend to finally get 10 clipped fish. This weekend was a bit slower with 35 or so fish caught to get 3 clipped . Fish are on the smaller side averaging 4-7 pounds.
Its fun to catch all those fish, but its a bit frustrating watching a badly hooked fish you know is going to die, swim/float away.

I understand releasing the unclipped fish to help the wild stocks, but the math doesn't seem to add up. I figured, out of the 80+ unclipped fish caught, I bet a good 10-25 of them died. Seems to me if you just allowed first 2 fish caught to be retained. More unclipped fish would survive.

In a few weeks it will be moot when unclipped can be retained.



Are you using a net? If so, Why?


No touch release is the only way to go for these kinds of fisheries .
Coho are particularly sensitive.

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#907007 - 09/23/14 03:33 AM Re: Slaying Coho [Re: kalamageo]
eyeFISH Offline
Ornamental Rice Bowl

Registered: 11/24/03
Posts: 12766
Anyone who thinks it's only 10-15% release mortality is kidding themselves. Better multiply that by 5.... gets you a LOT closer to the real number.
_________________________
"Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." (Zane Grey)

"If you don't kill them, they will spawn." (Carcassman)


The Keen Eye MD
Long Live the Kings!

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#907026 - 09/23/14 11:51 AM Re: Slaying Coho [Re: eyeFISH]
Todd Offline
Dick Nipples

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 28170
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
I'm not sure what the "real" number is, but I am certain that 10 to 15 percent is a paper mortality that bears little resemblance to reality, and wouldn't stand up to actual measurements no matter what gear is being used.

Fish on...

Todd
_________________________


Team Flying Super Ditch Pickle


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#907114 - 09/23/14 09:02 PM Re: Slaying Coho [Re: Todd]
topwater Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 06/28/00
Posts: 452
Loc: Rocky Mountain High
didn't smalma post actual studies that showed non-estuary coho with the much lower mortality?

you see loads of floaters and i see none. truth is likely in the middle but gear type has a huge impact. the two hook rig is a coho killer where smaller single hooks do not have the same immediate visual of bleeders or torn up fish.

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