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#920877 - 01/29/15 06:20 PM Re: PS Hatchery Steelhead [Re: JustBecause]
milt roe Offline
Spawner

Registered: 01/22/06
Posts: 925
Loc: tacoma
Thread number 1000 where we all argue about what needs to be fixed.

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#920887 - 01/29/15 07:48 PM Re: PS Hatchery Steelhead [Re: JustBecause]
kingdog Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 05/28/13
Posts: 178
Loc: Tumwater
It's tough to look in a mirror. Zits are not so cool.

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#920894 - 01/29/15 08:16 PM Re: PS Hatchery Steelhead [Re: JustBecause]
screename55 Offline
Smolt

Registered: 07/12/08
Posts: 78
Dang bunch of bummed out dudes at cascade river the other day. I freely admit I don't know [Bleeeeep!] about this, but why not catch some wild, "native' fish in the Skagit and start using them at the hatchery once all those chambers creek fish are gone? Maybe in a somewhat limited manner so as the fry in the estuary don't out compete the wild fish that spawn au natural?

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#920924 - 01/30/15 02:34 AM Re: PS Hatchery Steelhead [Re: Smalma]
supcoop Offline
Lady Killer Deluxe

Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 1132
Loc: Kirkland
Originally Posted By: Smalma
In the letter the authors (WFC?) are claiming that the Chambers Creek hatchery steelhead are a avoidable threat to Puget Sound wild winter steelhead. While I probably have it all wrong but isn't the implication from concern with that ending the planting of Chambers Creek hatchery steelhead the status of the wild winters in Puget Sound would improve?

NMFS Technical Recovery Team (TRT) in examining the wild steelhead populations of Puget Sound determined there were 32 what they called demographical independent populations (DIPs). Of those 32 DIPs 27 are winter populations. With the ending of the Chambers Creek program on the Skagit only 6 are currently being planted with Chambers Creek steelhead.

Of the 21 DIPs that are not being planted with Chambers Creek 9 have not been planted for at least 3 steelhead generations and another 10 have been planted for at least 1 steelhead generation. To my knowledge none of those populations have shown any measureable increase in wild steelhead numbers since the ending of the release of the hatchery fish.

Of further interest 1/2 of those DIPs do not have winter recreational seasons. Across the Puget Sound region many of the DIPs of neither recreational or tribal gill net fisheries during the winter. For those streams that are open to fishing (targeting hatchery steelhead or other species) during the winter 'the aggregate combined effect (total impacts associated with fishing) of all fisheries (yes that includes tribal take) in recent years has average about 4% .

For at least Puget Sound wild winter steelhead significant reductions of hatchery /wild interactions and fishing impacts have not resulted in any measureable improvements in the status of the wild steelhead. Could it be that if folks are really concern about recovery of PS wild steelhead that it is time to at factors other than hatchery and/or harvest?

Curt



HOLY LOGIC BATMAN!!!

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#920929 - 01/30/15 06:00 AM Re: PS Hatchery Steelhead [Re: JustBecause]
Met'lheadMatt Offline
Spawner

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 723
And without netting you are going to tell me the Queets would not return to it's glory, or the Skagit would not return to it's glory. Or what about the Snohomish system. What are they now compared to pre-Boldt case decision. Maybe 10% of what they where then. Come on Man. The Queets reference was to show that the problem is not roads, sewers, logging, It was to show that both have fishermen, but one has no netting, and this is true to PS systems as well, Boldt swung the Ax, and you will do nothing to recover the runs, unless you look toward the Mighty Elwa, and it's remarkable recovery, Hmmmmmm but no nets. How is the nisqually doing today with lower net pressure, I hear it is doing much better.
What was the escapement on the Skagit pre-Boldt compared to today. Nuf said.

Broodstock supplementation, reduced netting. With make for a better world, you are not going to much of an impact on habitat, unless we thin the human herd, and it's increasing last i checked..... Time to go fishing

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#921007 - 01/30/15 09:16 PM Re: PS Hatchery Steelhead [Re: JustBecause]
gregsalmon Offline
Spawner

Registered: 07/11/08
Posts: 534
Loc: alaska and washington
"They managed them till they were gone"

My dad...

I suggest we stop killing steelhead. All of us.

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#921008 - 01/30/15 09:18 PM Re: PS Hatchery Steelhead [Re: JustBecause]
gregsalmon Offline
Spawner

Registered: 07/11/08
Posts: 534
Loc: alaska and washington
"They managed them till they were gone"

My dad...

I suggest we stop killing steelhead. All of us.

Don't net them, don't handle them. Don't hold them out of the water, don't sell them at whole foods.

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#921010 - 01/30/15 09:37 PM Re: PS Hatchery Steelhead [Re: gregsalmon]
eyeFISH Offline
Ornamental Rice Bowl

Registered: 11/24/03
Posts: 12766
Originally Posted By: gregsalmon
"They managed them till they were gone"



And still trying to harvest them to recovery. J F C !
_________________________
"Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." (Zane Grey)

"If you don't kill them, they will spawn." (Carcassman)


The Keen Eye MD
Long Live the Kings!

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#921028 - 01/31/15 06:04 AM Re: PS Hatchery Steelhead [Re: JustBecause]
Smalma Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/25/01
Posts: 2844
Loc: Marysville
eyeFISH -
Remember we are talking Puget Sound steelhead here. Not sure that your statement of "...still trying to harvest them to recovery" is either accurate or appropriate.

At the time of the ESA listing NMFS in their listing document determined that in the decade prior to listing harvest (fishing relate mortalities) was not limiting. Since the listing as I pointed out earlier in this thread 1/2 of the winter populations (DIPs) have no winter fishing seasons. In the other basins the total fishing impacts (mostly incidental while targeting other species or hatchery steelhead) has average approximate 4% since the listing.

Further the region's native wild summer populations are doing at least as poorly as the winters in spite of being managed under wild release regulations for recreational seasons with no directed tribal fishing. In addition those populations (South Fork Nooksack Deer Creek, North Fork Skykomish, and Tolt) have not been planted with hatchery fish for an extended time; in some cases never.

Curt

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