So do'es being hooked over and over and over again!!!!!

Or not fishing them on their spawning beds!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

#looksasigasatrout #hashtag #payhank

And you know this based on what evidence please?

Not fact but If one went to the Hoh and watch the bobber show, especially on the upper river it do'sent take much to see a high percentage being caught multipale times.

i view it as common sense Salmo, if you dont want to play Steelhead forever due to them possibly dying from lactic acid build up, wouldnt catching the same fish multiple times still have that effect on them? obviously after catching it 1 time and it going back to the river for 24 hours or so untouched, the acid will disperse back into the system, vs catching it multiple times it has no time to leave the system, and the levels are higher after being caught 20 minutes ago than from a fish that was never hooked....

or is that not logical thinking?

Lol You don't have the slightest clue what common sense or logical thinking is redhook. Otherwise you'd be filling out job applications instead of posting here.

Redhook vs Salmo, Forrest Gump/Gomer Pyle vs Einstein. Same difference.

it was a question for Steve, not you two dimbulbs....

thats how people learn stuff, by asking people who already know the answer...

go back to bed children...

Before this thread goes sideways,

I read the study attached, which had nothing to do with steelhead but rather Atlantic salmon. Most might have a rough time with mixing apples with oranges—might even be frowned upon.

With that said, I would agree to use extreme caution and use prescribed measures when intending to release any fish—it certainly can’t hurt.

For the record, I do support the use of safe fish handling technique. Poor handling is second only to fatal hooking location in fish mortality rate in catch and release fishing.

Bk paige,

How many times can a winter steelhead be caught and released before reproductive efficacy is affected or mortality occurs? The reason I ask is because I think the answer is that no one knows. If the primary cause of mortality is fatal hooking location, hypothetically the more times a fish is hooked the greater the probability is that it will be hooked in a fatal location. However, statistically the odds of hooking in a fatal location are exactly the same each and every time an individual fish is hooked. If the odds are relatively low of being hooked in a fatal location, and they are, then the odds of being hooked numerous times are not additively higher with each subsequent hookup.

I think it's worth noting that the USFWS and NPS estimate that the average cutthroat trout in the vicinity of Buffalo Ford is hooked 7 times a year, and the water termperature - coming off the surface of Yellowstone Lake - is far, far warmer than any winter steelhead stream. So the cummulative stress on those cutthroat could reasonably be estimated as being higher than on winter steelhead on the Hoh or any other river.

Redhook,

As pointed out frequently, neither common sense nor logic are your strong points. Latic acid build up in steelhead and trout is a risk when water temperatures warm up, like in the 60s or thereabouts. A winter steelhead river at 52*F and usually in the 40s is cool enough that a winter steelhead could theoretically be hooked and played for 24 hours and not die of lactic acid build up. I'm not saying that no build up occurs, just that lethal levels don't. Therefore common sense and logic tell me that lactic acid build up is the very least worry in regards to catching and releasing winter steelhead. Please pay attention to hooking location and time out of water and poor handling techniques, as these are the factors that contribute to CNR fishing mortality in the winter. In the summer, avoid fishing when water temperatures exceed 68*F to avoid lactic acid stress in trout and steelhead.

Sg

Thanks Salmo-G, I was thinking of spawning production being the issue.

Well said salmo...you other guys are over thinking it too much, stop pointing fingers at other things. This is something YOU can do you self to help with your encounter rates, Nice and easy like.

And just cause you don't understand it don't mean it isn't true...kudos to you asking questions evo..but remember, sometimes a question is better answered by picking up a book and reading a bit.

On the swing, you sound like a pimped out puss. Tell me more o’ enlighten one.

You know so much though louie...why don't you take the **** out of your mouth and start it off for us.

Cmon professor...

Not over thinking it, just better targets out there!!!
On the bottume of flyer "I will also place a reasonable limit on the number of wild Steehead I catch and handle each day" never seen that happen on the coast!!! Its all about the #s

I’m not convinced that the study on the website I read pertained to the chart you provided. I would appreciate the correct published paper if you have it.

Oh just come on out and say it if your gonna try to shoot holes in the theory because the research was done on atlantics.

That's right guys, just lean your neck back a bit further. Makes it a lot easier when cutting your collective recreational fishing throat.

In the meantime, how many tribal nets are on the Hoh, Queets or any other Washington river right now? I wonder if the tribes harvesting your precious wild steelhead right now took that "pledge"?




In the meantime, keep leaning back and slicing away gentlemen. Carry on as usual.

I don't know what the effects are on a caught and released fish but I think I can say they have a hell of lot better chance of survival than being bonked on the frickin head!!!! Plus over the 50+ years I've fished for steelhead I have caught the same fish in the same day more than once over that time frame.

It really blows my mind that anyone would even begin to argue the affects on wild steelhead OR any fish for thst matter. If the % of mortality was even .0000001 percent. That is .0000001 more than I want to hear about.
Do you part to handle every fish to the best of your ability. Plain and simple.
You should need a study to tell you that our fisheries are declining, and sport fisherman ARE PART of the cause.

And yes that includes hatchery fish that your hard earned money funds to produce.

Better idea to bonk all hatchery fish. At the end of the day help limit your impact on wild steelhead by using the handling information so our share can potentially be more successful on the spawning beds.

I liked the part about limiting contact, but goes right out the door on the coast!

So what do we do about the coast? Any ideas for proposed changes? All in all in Washington we seem to be doing a better job of handling the fish compared to our neihboring states lots of pics of wild steelhead held in the air, sometimes in boats with out a drop of water coming off them, not too sure that is providing a higher survival rate. Perhaps this graphic can provide some level of awareness that we can do a better job and limit our personal impact, especially with our share in Washington.

I will get flamed for it but its time to ban fishing from boats on the coast(until there is some rivers in P/S are opend to relieve some preshure).No one is trying to limit them selves. How many native steelhead do you need to catch in a day? 2? 10? 30? I know some guides that do exceedingly good out there but have no restraint, espeacialy the fly guys beading. I know its fun to catch fish but come on stop being greedy

Bonk them all, sure that's fine.

But it still doesn't change the laws I'm affect for handling steelhead. It doesn't make a difference be it wild or hatchery. If you intend to release the fish...keep it in the water.

Play by the rules or sit on the bench.

Very little is accomplished in western wa in regards to habitat protection, steelhead management, and enforcement. Having grown up on the upper sky and now living on the upper Clearwater in Idaho, the ways of managing a resource is night and day. Today I watched f&g collecting broodstock from fisherman via hook n line, trucks with tracking devices studying migration rates, and enforcement doing their thing. Lots of hatchery fish, lots of wild, and lots of river for people to spread out and catch fish. If everyone was on the same page we could have killer steelhead fisheries in PS for native steel and hatchery fish, or do nothing and get what it is now...

In regards to hooking mortality and reproduction; a buddy messed around with a big buck hatch only to have leader snap and fish roll back to the drink. 10 min later I hook same fish and gave him his hook back and said, " told u steelhead weren't puss***"

yeah a big buck hatch you likely whacked... hook a big buck nate let it go, catch it again, let it go, and see what happens in 36 hours....

if anyone denounces that hooking fish multiple times doesnt affect them, id think thats a pretty dumb thing to say....

and Mr. paige does have a point, ive been saying this for years, it is greed... straight up... gotta have more pics, gotta have more fish, gotta have this that ect.... then bitch about the numbers...

be happy with what ya got, or well, its going to be gone... soon...

No truer words have been quoted on this site in many a years.

Damn Stam.

I AGREE
With my # of days per fish the steelhead have nothing to fear from me!

no, sh! t that eyefish brings threads are more thought provoking. I'd still hire stam to fix my car however.

Dern straight...

Wont be a need for overzealous witchhunting much longer as we'll all be shut down soon enough at the rate this states heading.

I don't care what you know etc it is all wrong. but I likened steelhead to tarpon, snook and reds on the east coast. basically it isn't the sportsfishers fault. it is everything else. ie god damn nets

I continue to see wild fish out of the water, held by the supporters of WSC. . Get yur soldiers in - line yo! And they wonder why they're not taken seriously? ????? I really believe this is all about ego and not the fish...sadly were too 'tistacle to give in. If pride trumped our egos we'd be at the table hammering things out, and the money flashers would be all but ignored.

Keep fish in the water... GOOD. Wet your hands before handling them... BETTER. Claim sport fishers capitalizing on the rare day when they get an opportunity to catch numbers is what's wiping out wild steelhead... BUSH LEAGUE.

Anybody posting comments to the effect they would choose to stop fishing after one or two encounters when the bite is on is LYING, and I'm calling you out on it. But don't worry... I don't think that makes you greedy, especially if you, like me, get skunked more often than you catch more than one. They're called glory days for a reason. If they happened frequently, there would be considerably less glory.

Yes I would limit my self, as i swing flies for steelhead. After 2 fish landed I would switch to a lighter tip, still hooking I would switch to a floater with a wet, still hooking put on a skater. I get more enjoyment watching my friends get into fish so they would be the priority.. For the common working guy that has a big day once a year no big deal, but the guides out there doing it over and over and over with no self regard for the resources is whats the problem.

Good on you for exercising restraint, bk. I Spey fish, too (not exclusively), and I can honestly say that if you have ever caught so many fish on a Spey rod that you needed to restrain yourself, you are my hero.

FF- No not yet not even close but I don't fly fish for #s. I fish gear some times and if I was ripping em I would try some thing else. But alas I have'nt fished since January and probley wont till late March if I'm lucky so steelhead are safe from me!!!!!

+1

I was part of the problem last weekend, and probably will be this weekend too.

I guess it means I REALLY DON"T care.

See y'all on the river.

Salmo,

You're an intelligent person.

Are you really arguing that fish being hooked, played, taken out of the water ( most do it), and then possibly hooked again doesn't have a mortality rate?

I think you're a fish manager/senior bio so you know mortality rates are included in all proposed fisheries. With the sky rocketing # of guides & fishermen mortality is an issue especially when people are fishing in prime spawning habitat.





Come On SG.

Flea,

I do it all the time. I catch a fish or two, then pack it up and do something else the rest of the day. To me it's the hunt, the catching is just a small part of the game. If I catch one line peeler I'm good. I'm not into numbers as it has nothing to do with fishing.

There are some non-greedy anglers that fish.

Two times this month I caught bucks over 20.

They were caught in the first spots I stopped at that day. On both floats only (3 miles) I cut off my fly, broke down the rod and floated to the take out with the biggest smile on my face after successfully releasing each of these gems.
I thought about continuing to fish but why? I was lucky to have caught a fish of a lifetime. There may have been a larger fish in the next run down... Oh well, hopefully some other lucky person will hook it and experience what I did. Maybe it will change their view towards fishing and they will have more appreciation for the resource.....?

Just my 2 cents

BK Paige,



I couldn't agree more with your statement above.

its a simple equation...

We have fewer fish than we did decades ago and the pressure was much much lighter because Puget sound tribs were open in March/April.

Now everybody wants to catch a steelhead and guide on the peninsula.

So, far fewer fish * recreational pressure above model prediction = over exploitation.

If a guide has 2 clients a day for 4 days a week and hooks an ave of 5 fish a day ( late Feb-April 15) that is 20 per week, 160 per month.

Now multiply that by the number of guides. Now add all the pressure from pugetropolis ( non guides).

I used very conservative numbers in this example...

They could be way bigger....

And add all the locals too....

Hey Red,

Great Selfish attitude. Very classy.

Two handed I agree, but the guides on the OP are catching far more than that a week and month(at lest the top ones). Hopefully the Skagit will reopen and take some preshure of the coast, or the OP willl be closed just like PS. What will all the greedy people say then.

I think this two-handed dipsh!t just like to hear himself snivel and finally found a place where he can whine and cry about everyone else while pretending he isn't a part of the problem.

What a fuckin' donkey.

Nobody cares what you think.

You just come out and say moronic things because you have no life and can't catch fish.

You must be a lonely SOB.

Btw Dan S,

What have you Ever done to help or Give back to the resource?

Bk Paige,

I used very conservative numbers in my scenario.

I realize the true numbers could be significantly higher.

They should shut all coastal rivers March 1.

I believe I just got way more than $0.02 worth.

THA,

Thanks for the kind words regarding my intelligence. Then I had to search back and see what I wrote over a month ago. I think if you read my post from 2/22 with some care for comprehension, it would be hard to conclude that I was arguing there is no mortality associated with responsible CNR steelhead fishing. To the extent I was arguing, I said that the mortality rate is low, which is higher than non-existent and significantly lower than high, which is the value some parties want to attach to it. My conclusions are based on observed results by me and others from wild steelhead broodstocking projects that occurred on the Skagit and Sauk Rivers in the 1980s where fish were treated less carefully than current protocol (including Sparky's law) and were held for a month or longer prior to spawning, so any delayed mortality would also have been observed. The observed incidental mortality rate in those projects ranged from 2 to 4%. That means "low" to me.

Sg

I caught the sarcasm right off. Well executed. My response was in line with it.

2handedwhatver missed it though. He or she cracked on my post, but in another post bragged about releasing 2-20 lb fish. To their defense they typed in "carefully released" so that makes it better than me and my buds yarding them in and just unhooking the throw-backs.

When carpet trolling an entire message board, like 2ha. It is hard not to contradict yourself a bit here and there.

Lmfao.....

You're a Doozy..... And most Definetly an ankle grabber.