#923942 - 03/01/15 07:29 PM
Lake Quinault-Interesting Read
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Juvenile at Sea
Registered: 03/03/07
Posts: 172
Loc: Seattle
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From The Daily World Posted February 17, 2015 - 8:32am Lake was never given to the tribe In response to the Quinault Tribe owning Lake Quinault, there needs to be more research done by government entities. I have been researching Native American history for almost 30 years and have been nationally recognized for my research. Thanks to the Internet anyone can access documents pertaining to Lake Quinault and the reservation boundaries. Washington State University early map collections will show you the original agreed-upon allotments and survey from 1911. Apparently this map was not presented to the court in the 1945 court case along with the agreed-upon survey of the reservation from 1902. The Quinault Reservation was created for the seven fish eating tribes on the Pacific coast, not just the Quinaults. The Executive Order never included water, only land for agriculture. There are court cases that even cite the Quinault Reservation is at the west end of the lake. U.S. attorneys prepared and presented that information in the United States v. Washington case (the Bolt decision). The Bolt decision stated that any fish that escape from the nets into Quinault Lake can be harvested by non-tribal members. Anyone with a home computer can access these and thousands of other documents for their own research by searching for: Surveys, Executive Orders, Presidential Proclamations, Indian Agent reports to Congress, and the Treaties, Forest Reserve, Forest Service, National Park Service, and the Solicitor General’s Office in Portland. The Quinault Tribe always states they “own” the lake. No tribe owns the Federal Trust Land they use and occupy, it belongs to the people. The Doctrine of Discovery and Conquest from the 1400’s European Law, and the Discovery Doctrine from which President Jefferson sent Lewis and Clark to claim the Northwest from England in 1804 does not give the indigenous people any ownership rights, only use and occupancy. To the conqueror go the spoils and the conqueror is the ruling government. Prior to Statehood England and the United States owned the Pacific Northwest until their Treaty of 1846. The U.S. Government owned all of the Northwest and still does. The tribes are known as dependent domestic nations of the United States. The government owns the Federal Trust Land that the tribes reside on not the tribe. The Quinaults cannot own the lake. There is a document that states the Quinaults went to Congress in 1938 asking for the lake and they were refused. Neither the House nor the Senate would bring this issue to the floor due to so much opposition. Chief Justice Rehnquist stated in a Montana case, “if it wasn’t given in the Treaty then it wasn’t given.” His comment stated that if the Treaty had been brought before the Supreme Court, the court would have read the letter of the treaty. The U.S. government, the State of Washington and Grays Harbor County seem to have forgotten the rights of their citizens by not researching the Quinault Lake historical documents more thoroughly. There is no document from Congress giving the lake to the Quinaults. The Solicitor General does not have the power or right to give land or a lake in the State of Washington to a tribe. The opinion is only an opinion not law. I invite everyone to search the Internet for confirmation on their own and then they will believe the written history instead of oral history. Guy Boudia Tumwater - See more at: http://thedailyworld.com/opinion/letters/lake-was-never-given-tribe#sthash.p2MqLgpL.dpuf
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#923943 - 03/01/15 07:45 PM
Re: Lake Quinault-Interesting Read
[Re: JPbarbless]
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Juvenile at Sea
Registered: 03/03/07
Posts: 172
Loc: Seattle
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May not be tribal . I may rethink all the money I have been spending on boat permits and fishing licenses all these years. May be the last ones I buy
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#923944 - 03/01/15 07:46 PM
Re: Lake Quinault-Interesting Read
[Re: JPbarbless]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 03/15/99
Posts: 4214
Loc: Poulsbo, WA,USA
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Some of my ancestors lived at Lake Quinault. Guess I have pioneers from Grays Harbor too. Interesting read. My ancestors used to trade for beads with the natives. Would like to do some more research.
_________________________
I'd Rather Be Fishing for Summer Steelhead!
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#923946 - 03/01/15 08:08 PM
Re: Lake Quinault-Interesting Read
[Re: JPbarbless]
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Ornamental Rice Bowl
Registered: 11/24/03
Posts: 12767
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Compelling argument against tribal ownership of the lake.
_________________________
"Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." (Zane Grey) "If you don't kill them, they will spawn." (Carcassman) The Keen Eye MDLong Live the Kings!
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#923964 - 03/02/15 06:15 AM
Re: Lake Quinault-Interesting Read
[Re: JPbarbless]
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Spawner
Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 723
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I think it is time for a fish in to get the ball rolling, if in fact it is not owned by the Quin's. The State and Fed's will not do a thing, and leave it Status Quo unless thier hand is forced. Might be time for amrather large fish in, with all members have a copy of the 38 document that turns ownership away and the later Boldt decision that does not grant ownership.
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#924077 - 03/03/15 01:24 PM
Re: Lake Quinault-Interesting Read
[Re: JPbarbless]
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Spawner
Registered: 03/01/11
Posts: 993
Loc: Tacoma
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There are so many things that could be said here. I guess this is just one more scam they are pulling off. I just don't get how they can use our roads, schools and other tax payer funded public resources yet cut us off by the b@lls in just about every way. Sometimes I think people think I'm racist towards the Natives but it wouldn't matter what color or ethnic origin they are. What matters is they are a group of people fleecing us and laughing behind our backs. I still say to this day they are the biggest offender when it comes to the detriment of our fisheries and they are sticking it to the man unlike any other group. They spend more time trying to screw us than they do cleaning up their own SELF MADE messes which of course they blame us for.
Edited by gooybob (03/03/15 03:05 PM)
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#924088 - 03/03/15 02:07 PM
Re: Lake Quinault-Interesting Read
[Re: JPbarbless]
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Spawner
Registered: 07/11/08
Posts: 534
Loc: alaska and washington
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Has anybody on here ever heard of the tribe successfully prosecuting any non-tribal member for a violation of ANY kind?
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#924101 - 03/03/15 03:24 PM
Re: Lake Quinault-Interesting Read
[Re: JPbarbless]
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Spawner
Registered: 03/01/11
Posts: 993
Loc: Tacoma
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I don't know about successful prosecution but they have definitely arrested and pushed their so called authority against non-tribal members. Just a few years ago two LEGAL elk hunters along with their toddler were held at gun point by tribal police off of tribal land. If I remember right the idiots claimed they were on tribal land but were not.There are other cases of their abuse of power as well. All I'm saying is you can't have it both ways. If you're a country or nation of your own and can keep people from other nations (the United States in this case) from your lands and resources why should we allow them rights on in our country. Don't they go to schools funded by our government and drive on roads funded by our government? They don't pay federal taxes or even their share of state taxes. They do however get paid with our taxes. It's the biggest sham out there. I would never submit to their so called "authority". I've fished the upper Quinault River since the late 50's and they have destroyed the fishing up there ever since the Boldt Decision. I'm surprised they aren't gillnetting the lake for cutthroat and dollies. It will be interesting to see how they rip the state off when they start growing and selling weed. I can just see it now "OG Quinault Kush." Or since they supposedly don't clip the hatchery fish they could sell "Fake Nate Purple." I wonder what the penalty will be from the tribal police for tribe members caught with Quinault Kush and a 40 ouncer!
Edited by gooybob (03/03/15 03:26 PM)
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#924114 - 03/03/15 04:16 PM
Re: Lake Quinault-Interesting Read
[Re: gooybob]
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Returning Adult
Registered: 04/17/13
Posts: 289
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" Sometimes I think people think I'm racist towards the Natives" And you are right , they do think you are a racist, and they are right, you ARE a racist. Bob R
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#924126 - 03/03/15 05:42 PM
Re: Lake Quinault-Interesting Read
[Re: JPbarbless]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
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First, there are no such things as "Natives." We are all immigrants. I take offense at the use of the word "Native" because it infers that all others are non-Native and of lesser value. So, in that context those that insist on being called "Native" could be described as racist.
As to the two elk hunters, they had legally harvested a bull elk within sight of traffic on Hwy 101 in the Brinnon area as I recall. Someone called a non-tribal police agency but before they could respond two S'Klallam LE officers decided to respond and took the two elk hunters into custody at gun point. That included the young child. They were held handcuffed for several hours until it was determined that they had permission to hunt the land and were otherwise legal in taking the bull. Initially the Tribal Chief of Police defended his officers but later put some fuzzy edges on their position. The senior Tribal LE on site was fired and the junior officer retained his job. No one was charged criminally (kidnapping, child abuse, assault with a deadly weapon - pick and choose) which was, in my opinion, a failure of the County Prosecutor because the Tribal officers HAD NO JURISDICTION.
Now, if you really want to be concerned look into how Patty Murray submitted and had an amendment to Federal Anti-Domestic Violation laws such that a non-tribal member accused of domestic violation may, under certain circumstances, be arrested by tribal LE and prosecuted in tribal court. I'm just waiting for that first case to get to a Federal courtroom with the defendants claiming it is unconstitutional.
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!
It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)
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#924176 - 03/04/15 11:50 AM
Re: Lake Quinault-Interesting Read
[Re: bob r]
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Spawner
Registered: 03/01/11
Posts: 993
Loc: Tacoma
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Bob, You are an angry fella. You need to take a chill pill. If your not careful you might get checked by fish and game for being over your limit of bad vibes. I think you said you've been checked over 30 times. That just might be from bad karma buddy. You obviously don't understand what racism is but that's understandable considering. If your not careful you may tip your little canoe type boat over from the anger shakes!
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#924183 - 03/04/15 12:39 PM
Re: Lake Quinault-Interesting Read
[Re: gregsalmon]
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Old Duffer
Registered: 03/15/99
Posts: 2967
Loc: Hoquiam,WA.USA
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Anybody ever hear of the Indians losing a case? fp Has anybody on here ever heard of the tribe successfully prosecuting any non-tribal member for a violation of ANY kind?
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#924195 - 03/04/15 02:36 PM
Re: Lake Quinault-Interesting Read
[Re: fp]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 13523
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Anybody ever hear of the Indians losing a case?
fp Yes, even at the Supreme Court level. But not often.
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#924201 - 03/04/15 03:05 PM
Re: Lake Quinault-Interesting Read
[Re: JPbarbless]
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SRC Poser
Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 2143
Loc: Snohomish
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So are they not allowing us to float down to the lake anymore?
_________________________
No head like STLHD! "Dude...where's your boat!?" Team runaway drift boat prostaff. Big Stick 2012: "EVERY thought of my being, is in regards to being a Hi-Tech Predator and I relish the role."
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#924314 - 03/05/15 09:30 PM
Re: Lake Quinault-Interesting Read
[Re: JPbarbless]
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Spawner
Registered: 07/11/08
Posts: 534
Loc: alaska and washington
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Generally, if you call tribal enforcement they will say the lake is closed to boating. HOWEVER drift boats are regularly rowed from the mouth of the Quinault over to the Rainforest resort.
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#926384 - 04/01/15 09:31 AM
Re: Lake Quinault-Interesting Read
[Re: JPbarbless]
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Juvenile at Sea
Registered: 03/03/07
Posts: 172
Loc: Seattle
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Not sure that it has been thrown out, It seems that there should be a decision this month as to if they want to move forward. I'm still looking for more information. I'll keep you posted as to what happens. JP
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#926391 - 04/01/15 11:56 AM
Re: Lake Quinault-Interesting Read
[Re: Swing r Die]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 04/25/00
Posts: 5077
Loc: East of Aberdeen, West of Mont...
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The court threw out the suit...
Which court???? Would be easy to check.....computer and internet....
_________________________
"Worse day sport fishing, still better than the best day working"
"I thought growing older, would take longer"
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#926392 - 04/01/15 12:10 PM
Re: Lake Quinault-Interesting Read
[Re: JPbarbless]
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Juvenile at Sea
Registered: 03/03/07
Posts: 172
Loc: Seattle
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US 9th district Tacoma. Checked the record there and it seems like something is going to happen this month. I don't have access to the transcripted records. It seems that you have to pay for that access. JP
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#926420 - 04/01/15 06:18 PM
Re: Lake Quinault-Interesting Read
[Re: JPbarbless]
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Juvenile at Sea
Registered: 03/03/07
Posts: 172
Loc: Seattle
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OK your brilliant. Yes the court has not ruled
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#926483 - 04/03/15 09:55 AM
Re: Lake Quinault-Interesting Read
[Re: JPbarbless]
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Poodle Smolt
Registered: 05/03/01
Posts: 10979
Loc: McCleary, WA
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MPM, thanks for your clarification. I'll see if I can look up anything on PACER on this.
_________________________
"Give me the anger, fish! Give me the anger!"
They call me POODLE SMOLT!
The Discover Pass is brought to you by your friends at the CCA.
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#926485 - 04/03/15 10:02 AM
Re: Lake Quinault-Interesting Read
[Re: MPM]
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King of the Beach
Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 5206
Loc: Carkeek Park
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The Quinault tribe and DNR filed motions to dismiss and both sides have filed briefs. The court hasn't ruled yet.
Anyone know why the DNR got involved and asked for the suit to be dismissed?
_________________________
Go Dawgs! Founding Member - 2023 Pink Plague Opposition Party #coholivesmatter
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#926492 - 04/03/15 12:47 PM
Re: Lake Quinault-Interesting Read
[Re: JPbarbless]
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King of the Beach
Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 5206
Loc: Carkeek Park
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Got it Thanks
_________________________
Go Dawgs! Founding Member - 2023 Pink Plague Opposition Party #coholivesmatter
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#929085 - 05/05/15 08:24 AM
Re: Lake Quinault-Interesting Read
[Re: JPbarbless]
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Spawner
Registered: 01/22/06
Posts: 925
Loc: tacoma
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#929100 - 05/05/15 10:27 AM
Re: Lake Quinault-Interesting Read
[Re: JPbarbless]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 04/25/00
Posts: 5077
Loc: East of Aberdeen, West of Mont...
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Tribes continue to be on a roll......"no more beads, for Manhattan Island"
_________________________
"Worse day sport fishing, still better than the best day working"
"I thought growing older, would take longer"
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#929131 - 05/05/15 03:47 PM
Re: Lake Quinault-Interesting Read
[Re: JPbarbless]
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Three Time Spawner
Registered: 06/03/06
Posts: 1533
Loc: Tacoma
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Does anyone have the actual legal opinion. There should be more to the ruling. I would guess that as a sovereign state only the Government could sue them, but the article does not specify. The problem I see is the government has no problem giving them what ever they want. I am not an attorney so this is just my opintion but it seems the best approach to a problem like this is for someone to have the guts to ignore the tribes claims. When the tribe tries to exert control, then the ownership question would most likely have merit. Because the Gov't wont take action, nothing can be done until the tribe tries to take someone to court to exercise their rights. Proving their ownership and right to control the lake would be up to them, something they might not be able to do. The problem with this whole scenario is that the tribe would probably try to enforce the rules in tribal court. When the tribe found the person guilty then an appeal to the federal courts would need to take place. The courts could just ignore it for political reasons, or, if it looked like they were going to take the case, the tribe could simply drop the charges. That way no precedent would be set and they could continue to screw the next person.
I sat in a meeting one time with a local government and at one point someone on the city council asked if the law they were about to pass was legal. Their attorney stated that there were some significant issues with it but not too worry, no one would likely have the money to fight the issue. With that, they then went ahead and passed the ordinance. Same type of situation. Unless you are willing to get in to the fight and have the money and guts to do so, the tribe will continue to do what ever they want.
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#929168 - 05/06/15 07:55 AM
Re: Lake Quinault-Interesting Read
[Re: JPbarbless]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 04/25/00
Posts: 5077
Loc: East of Aberdeen, West of Mont...
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Krijack....
Go for it, buy some property from a North/South shore home owner ......... test your theory.
Keep us posted on the progress !!!!!! You could be a winner ??????
_________________________
"Worse day sport fishing, still better than the best day working"
"I thought growing older, would take longer"
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