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#927950 - 04/22/15 04:38 PM Re: Sound Summer Chinook Season - how did we get here? [Re: Chasin' Baitman]
luckydogss Offline
Smolt

Registered: 09/20/06
Posts: 92
Loc: Renton
I think the state and the muks figure we'll just bitch a little and it will all blow over. Sportsman have taken all the other opportunity cutbacks without doing anything. No protests, no court cases, nothing!
Today, teachers are walking out and their complaints have made the news. Police brutality, homelessness, minimum wage you name it- everybody who wants their issue resolved protests. I know that if this affected the commercials, they would have taken them to court. These days, if you don't like something, you have to both protest and use the courts to get something changed. That threat needs to be out there or you'll be stepped on.

I think we need to rally a protest that gives our issue enough press to get something done. I'm thinking we should take every boat we can get to the Capitol and have a rally on the steps.

Our banners could read " we just want our 50%" and if we don't get it we should take them to court. I think it's just a matter of whether we do it this year or next, it's just going to get worse. The longer we wait to address it, the more ground we'll have to work to get back.

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#928042 - 04/23/15 01:49 PM Re: Sound Summer Chinook Season - how did we get here? [Re: luckydogss]
TastySalmon Offline
Smolt

Registered: 04/16/14
Posts: 77
Loc: Lake Samish
Begin rant:

Others mentioned that this is the result of fighting over a dwindling number of fish. Whether or not anyone accepts it, the tribes and anglers are in the same boat. FFS, look at how many wild fish this commotion is over and how much damage it has done. Of course a tribe will advocate for itself and of course WDFW will cede a popular fishery in a situation like this. WDFW's goal is not to provide robust fisheries for their constituents -- their goal is to continue a worsening conservation facade in a day and age when recovery of any ESA species comes at great cost with very little to show for the efforts. Despite what George W. Bush said, humans and fish cannot live in peace.

Recovering any listed species in Pugetrolpolis is simply out of the question. LW chinook will never recover to healthy, harvestable levels. Ever. To believe otherwise is insanity. There are too many factors at play preventing just about any species recovery whether they inhabit the most intact PS river, or a warmwater cesspool surrounded by tech executive mansions.

Keta brought up the interception by AK and BC on local stocks, and his advice is absolutely correct. Do you think ADFG gives a damn about LW chinook -- or any nearly extinct PS stock for that matter? Of course not. SEAK trollers will be allowed to continue business as usual, and we'll continue allowing ourselves to be held hostage by a stock that simply will not be extant, except through hatchery supplementation, in 50 years. Will a SEAK troll fishery moratorium be the answer for LW chinook? Probably not, but we would likely see a great deal more chinook everywhere else in the PNW.

While it's easy to complain about what happened, it doesn't come anywhere close to fixing the problems. If the tables at NOF had been turned in favor of the rec fleet, does it mean fewer wild LW chinook will eventually die? Most people know the answer to this question, so it comes back to fighting over a pathetic population of fish that will continue sliding closer to extinction.

Anglers need an organized plan, and that plan shouldn't involve bickering about less than 200 paper fish. WDFW and the feds aren't going to create better fisheries for us; they're going to gradually keep restricting fisheries while tooting the recovery and conservation horn. This said, what are the solutions for providing better fisheries?

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#928056 - 04/23/15 03:58 PM Re: Sound Summer Chinook Season - how did we get here? [Re: luckydogss]
GodLovesUgly Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 04/20/09
Posts: 1270
Loc: WaRshington
Originally Posted By: luckydogss

I think we need to rally a protest that gives our issue enough press to get something done. I'm thinking we should take every boat we can get to the Capitol and have a rally on the steps.


This is exactly what needs to happen. We just need a voice to rally a few public demonstrations.

One venue would be flying in the face of the Muckelshoot commercial fisheries down in Ballard.
_________________________
When I grow up I want to be,
One of the harvesters of the sea.
I think before my days are done,
I want to be a fisherman.

Top
#928079 - 04/23/15 08:46 PM Re: Sound Summer Chinook Season - how did we get here? [Re: TastySalmon]
Supertrout Offline
Fry

Registered: 06/03/11
Posts: 35
Originally Posted By: TastySalmon
Begin rant:

Others mentioned that this is the result of fighting over a dwindling number of fish. Whether or not anyone accepts it, the tribes and anglers are in the same boat. FFS, look at how many wild fish this commotion is over and how much damage it has done. Of course a tribe will advocate for itself and of course WDFW will cede a popular fishery in a situation like this. WDFW's goal is not to provide robust fisheries for their constituents -- their goal is to continue a worsening conservation facade in a day and age when recovery of any ESA species comes at great cost with very little to show for the efforts. Despite what George W. Bush said, humans and fish cannot live in peace.

Recovering any listed species in Pugetrolpolis is simply out of the question. LW chinook will never recover to healthy, harvestable levels. Ever. To believe otherwise is insanity. There are too many factors at play preventing just about any species recovery whether they inhabit the most intact PS river, or a warmwater cesspool surrounded by tech executive mansions.

Keta brought up the interception by AK and BC on local stocks, and his advice is absolutely correct. Do you think ADFG gives a damn about LW chinook -- or any nearly extinct PS stock for that matter? Of course not. SEAK trollers will be allowed to continue business as usual, and we'll continue allowing ourselves to be held hostage by a stock that simply will not be extant, except through hatchery supplementation, in 50 years. Will a SEAK troll fishery moratorium be the answer for LW chinook? Probably not, but we would likely see a great deal more chinook everywhere else in the PNW.

While it's easy to complain about what happened, it doesn't come anywhere close to fixing the problems. If the tables at NOF had been turned in favor of the rec fleet, does it mean fewer wild LW chinook will eventually die? Most people know the answer to this question, so it comes back to fighting over a pathetic population of fish that will continue sliding closer to extinction.

Anglers need an organized plan, and that plan shouldn't involve bickering about less than 200 paper fish. WDFW and the feds aren't going to create better fisheries for us; they're going to gradually keep restricting fisheries while tooting the recovery and conservation horn. This said, what are the solutions for providing better fisheries?



Thankfully, something that makes a lick of sense.


Edited by Supertrout (04/23/15 08:47 PM)

Top
#928101 - 04/24/15 06:48 AM Re: Sound Summer Chinook Season - how did we get here? [Re: Chasin' Baitman]
RUNnGUN Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 1385
Where is the CCA, the NSIA, and PSA in all this? Seems like efforts should be combined to lobby, battle or protest as a group against this BS. Haven't heard a word out of any of them.
_________________________
"Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it.” – Ferris Bueller.
Don't let the old man in!

Top
#928139 - 04/24/15 06:50 PM Re: Sound Summer Chinook Season - how did we get here? [Re: Chasin' Baitman]
bodysurf Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 11/28/01
Posts: 324
Loc: olympia
maybe they should end mass marking ....

Top
#928140 - 04/24/15 07:51 PM Re: Sound Summer Chinook Season - how did we get here? [Re: Chasin' Baitman]
RowVsWade Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/08/06
Posts: 3405
Loc: Island Time
.....or hatcheries.
_________________________
"...the pool hall I loved as a kid is now a 7-11..."

If you don't like our prices bring your wife down and we'll dicker.

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#928141 - 04/24/15 08:24 PM Re: Sound Summer Chinook Season - how did we get here? [Re: RUNnGUN]
bushbear Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 08/26/02
Posts: 4709
Loc: Sequim
CCA and PSA members were working the process and were at the final NOF meeting in CA. Safe to say we're all continuing to work the issue.

Top
#928149 - 04/25/15 09:08 AM Re: Sound Summer Chinook Season - how did we get here? [Re: TastySalmon]
Bay wolf Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 10/26/12
Posts: 1075
Loc: Graham, WA
Originally Posted By: TastySalmon
Begin rant:

Others mentioned that this is the result of fighting over a dwindling number of fish. Whether or not anyone accepts it, the tribes and anglers are in the same boat. FFS, look at how many wild fish this commotion is over and how much damage it has done. Of course a tribe will advocate for itself and of course WDFW will cede a popular fishery in a situation like this. WDFW's goal is not to provide robust fisheries for their constituents -- their goal is to continue a worsening conservation facade in a day and age when recovery of any ESA species comes at great cost with very little to show for the efforts. Despite what George W. Bush said, humans and fish cannot live in peace.

Recovering any listed species in Pugetrolpolis is simply out of the question. LW chinook will never recover to healthy, harvestable levels. Ever. To believe otherwise is insanity. There are too many factors at play preventing just about any species recovery whether they inhabit the most intact PS river, or a warmwater cesspool surrounded by tech executive mansions.

Keta brought up the interception by AK and BC on local stocks, and his advice is absolutely correct. Do you think ADFG gives a damn about LW chinook -- or any nearly extinct PS stock for that matter? Of course not. SEAK trollers will be allowed to continue business as usual, and we'll continue allowing ourselves to be held hostage by a stock that simply will not be extant, except through hatchery supplementation, in 50 years. Will a SEAK troll fishery moratorium be the answer for LW chinook? Probably not, but we would likely see a great deal more chinook everywhere else in the PNW.

While it's easy to complain about what happened, it doesn't come anywhere close to fixing the problems. If the tables at NOF had been turned in favor of the rec fleet, does it mean fewer wild LW chinook will eventually die? Most people know the answer to this question, so it comes back to fighting over a pathetic population of fish that will continue sliding closer to extinction.

Anglers need an organized plan, and that plan shouldn't involve bickering about less than 200 paper fish. WDFW and the feds aren't going to create better fisheries for us; they're going to gradually keep restricting fisheries while tooting the recovery and conservation horn. This said, what are the solutions for providing better fisheries?



Impact on wild stocks is the nail used to tie all the conservation and restrictions together. Less impact on wild fish = better odds for recovery (so says the party line)
The elephant in the room that no one wants to address is the non-selective fisheries that are conducted on ESA listed fish.

Sport anglers are mandated to rules that reduce impacts and are given substantial fines for violating these rules. Further, recreational fishermen support the majority of the conservation efforts toward restoration and hatchery supplementation. Then there is the financial contributions to the state and communities by the sportsmen. Yet, our co-managers and commercial communities are continuing to use (and be allowed to use) gill-nets, which account for significant impact to wild stock. So, the fallacy of WDFW making decisions and using "conservation" and "reduced impacts" are all smoke and mirrors. The truth is, stocks are dwindling for a number of reason, and overharvest by commercial fleets is a major one. But it is much easier to place restrictions on the recreational fishermen then the politically connected tribes and commercials. The only recourse sports fishermen have is to complain, and that doesn't impact those that make the deals!
_________________________
"Forgiveness is between them and God. My job is to arrange the meeting."

1Sgt U.S. Army (Ret)

Top
#928151 - 04/25/15 10:47 AM Re: Sound Summer Chinook Season - how did we get here? [Re: Chasin' Baitman]
Carcassman Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7428
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
The sportsman also has the option to not participate. To vote with their feet and with their wallets.

Top
#928326 - 04/28/15 08:53 AM Re: Sound Summer Chinook Season - how did we get here? [Re: Chasin' Baitman]
BroodBuster Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 07/11/04
Posts: 3113
Loc: Bothell, Wa
I see over on Mynorthwest there's a full page banner add "7 reasons to fish Canada." One reason is the four king possession limit. It should read, "Come to Canada and kill your four ESA listed Puget Sound kings before the Muckleshoots kill them all!"

Every day may chances of retiring in Wa goes down. Throw in another 5-7 million people in the next decade or so and there will be nothing left that I used to love about this state.
_________________________
"Government does not solve problems; it subsidizes them." Ronald Reagan

"The trouble with Socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money." Margaret Thatcher.

"How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think." Adolf Hitler

Top
#928336 - 04/28/15 12:39 PM Re: Sound Summer Chinook Season - how did we get here? [Re: Bay wolf]
JustBecause Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 07/18/08
Posts: 237
Originally Posted By: Bay wolf


Impact on wild stocks is the nail used to tie all the conservation and restrictions together. Less impact on wild fish = better odds for recovery (so says the party line)
The elephant in the room that no one wants to address is the non-selective fisheries that are conducted on ESA listed fish.

Sport anglers are mandated to rules that reduce impacts and are given substantial fines for violating these rules. Further, recreational fishermen support the majority of the conservation efforts toward restoration and hatchery supplementation. Then there is the financial contributions to the state and communities by the sportsmen. Yet, our co-managers and commercial communities are continuing to use (and be allowed to use) gill-nets, which account for significant impact to wild stock. So, the fallacy of WDFW making decisions and using "conservation" and "reduced impacts" are all smoke and mirrors. The truth is, stocks are dwindling for a number of reason, and overharvest by commercial fleets is a major one. But it is much easier to place restrictions on the recreational fishermen then the politically connected tribes and commercials. The only recourse sports fishermen have is to complain, and that doesn't impact those that make the deals!


Or you could just go fish in the ocean and not have to release unmarked Chinook? That's right, in a non-selective recreational fishery...

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