Worth a listen... Podcast on The Outdoor Line.

Tom Nelson and Rob Ensley host WDFW Director regarding NOF process specifically regarding MA10 closure.

WDFW DIRECTOR JIM UNSWORTH ON NORTH OF FALCON PROCESS

From the interview, it sure didn't appear that we had strong or cohesive leadership advocating for a recreational season.

It's a pretty disgusting result from a process that is all but broken.
From the Director's standpoint, I have no earthly idea how you get a grasp on the North of Falcon drill in three months. I've been involved for over a decade and still have to re-boot every year.
The bottom line is until WDFW grows the will to walk away from a bad deal and place the entire multi-million dollar coastal fishery in jeopardy, the Muckelshoots will be running Puget Sound chinook management.
If the party you're negotiating with knows that you won't walk away from the table, then you truly do not have any leverage.

Absolutely true.

Which kinda takes the "co" out of management.

Is there a person or group within the Muckleshoot we should focus our energy on?

You're right Tom, we should have walked away. Agreeing to that "deal" puts all the progress made in the last 10 years in peril.

When our options are

1. We get screwed, they get whatever they want, or
2. We get screwed, they get screwed, and now we'll have to actually negotiate

...then choosing #2 seems like a no brainer.

Which, I suppose, is why we ended up with #1.

The WDFW team that negotiated on our behalf at the PFMC should all be fired.

Fish on...

Todd

Don't worry they will get their pensions.

People say the only job you can get paid for being wrong is a weatherman.

I disagree.

Pretty sad. How do we bring about accountability? It seems that no one outside of the fishing community cares, which I believe is our biggest hurdle.

This is a very true statement. Unless you're involved in the industry (be it commercial, tribal or recreational) you have absolutely no idea what is going on and hence, have no care in the world.

As long as you can go to the store and buy a salmon filet for under $40 per pound (which will change soon enough after all of this mismanagement catches up with us and there are no more fish to be caught), no one cares.

Depressing.

At least it's a pink year....Which I'm sure like chum will become the next one to become over exploited.

I think the focusing that we ought to be doing on the Muckleshoot Tribe is focusing on how their negotiators managed to get everything they wanted, and ours managed to give away nearly everything we wanted.

Why would anyone blame the Tribe for doing their job far better than WDFW did?

Blame the failures on those who not only gave away our fishery, but then had the gall to come back and lie to us and tell us it was "for conservation".

They're the ones who deserve to not only be derided, but to never be allowed in NOF or PFMC again.

Fish on...

Todd

NEWS FLASH:

Todd to replace Anderson at 2016 NOF/PFMC!!

Every new fishing license under his new tenure will come with 2 rvrfshr spoons. Extra spoons can be obtained by purchasing the rvrfshr endorsement. All funds will go towards hatchery supplementation of course.

Agreed, there should be true communication between the political groups about what is best for conservation and work towards a fishery (or none) that benefits each accordingly.

Why do you think that the goal of WDFW or the Mucks is "conservation"? And just what is "conservation"?

I don't think that those two groups have a shared goal and I seriously doubt that the goals of WDFW and the "rec community (whatever that really is)" are shared.

It's a case of the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Tribal slots are a 600 mil monster in washington annually, with revenue like that ontop of the other gaming. We have created deep pocket beasts.
The only way to bring equality to the table is using those slots as a nego tool. At the present time they have exclusive rights to them and the cash cow they create, but if the State would let every bowling ally, hotel, restraunte ect have them, or the threat of..... It may shed a different light in thier eyes. But allowing them the gaming monoply, to financially support there cause, they will eventually go after everything else.

Yep, to what Matt said.

I've been in a Casino a couple of times. Not going in another one for a long time

You don't really think that the politicians would kill the goose that lays golden eggs, do you?

Don't fool yourself, fishermen are the minority and our enjoyment of tribal casinos won't even come close to hitting their bottom line. Don't waste your breath drawing a line in the sand between recreational fisheries and frequenting casinos. Focus your efforts on getting your elected officials to work towards an open dialogue between the tribes and the state.

Not that I spend even 5 minutes a year at any casino, tribal or not. But there is nothing gained from the never ending cop out of "not gonna give em a cent at their casinos" . When was the last time any of us were at a casino, looked around and thought, "damn! if all these sportfishermen knew what was going on they all wouldn't be here!"?

The Tribes receive 75% of the gas tax they take in, no audit required on the use of those funds. They also keep all of the liquor tax they receive, and they pay no tax on gambling receipts. Our State government receives no benefits from them at all as it relates to income.

Not income to the state coffers... but there have been certain government officials that received some healthy paychecks to help support their campaigns

Perhaps CCA should get involved

You are correct there. A $650,000 campaign donation had "absolutely nothing" to do with gambling laws in Washington State.

Perhaps the Attorney General should get involved, but it won't happen as the goose must be protected.

Why should the AG get involved? Corporations (just really big people, right?) make even larger donations and that seems OK with folks. The Tribes have simply learned how to play by the rules that the NI's put in place. Now we complain when they are better at it?

I did say "perhaps" and it would be to investigate the lawmakers for evidence of Quid pro quo, which would be illegal. And it would not matter if the bribers were corporations, Native tribes, foreign governments or an individual. I also don't see how the Tribes "are better at it" it is just that they are playing under a different set of rules in many circumstances.

far as I can tell they are abiding by the laws as written and interpreted by the Courts. If we (whoever we is) want to change it we can go to Congress.

This is a great point, IMO. The Tribes are only playing the hand they've been dealt, and I would agree that they're playing it like old pros. Of course, to Dogfish's point, they're not exactly competing on a level playing field, and it's not in the State's best interest to allow the deck to be stacked any longer. Tax them, so the windfall from casinos and gas benefits the public interest, as opposed to making politicians richer.

Blackmouth's right to refer to a golden goose, but I think the real golden goose is privately-funded elections. We take away casinos, someone else will pay to forward their own greedy agenda. Take away private funding and laws will begin to get made for the greater good, as there will be no incentive for legislators to vote against their constituents. Granted, without private funding, there would be little incentive for qualified lawmakers to run for office, since most of them earn a lot more than their state salary before being elected. I say you fix that by paying them more. We need to make legislative representation, for the right reasons, a more rewarding career.

Cop out? All we can do is our part and by not contributing even a penny, I feel I'm doing mine. Of course there's more to it than that, but I've also influenced family and friends who never gave it a second thought.

No I don't as long as they funnel money into campaings, But the Goose is getting rich and can afford to put up a fight at our expense. As long as they have thier cake and eat it to, they are going to come after yours

here is my response to the WDFW and NWIFC press releases about the area 10 closure this summer:

http://www.sportsradiokjr.com/media/podc...-5215-26018614/

Good stuff Ryley... Just the beginning if we're going to capitalize on this...

As a group, we need unreal levels of focus and clarity:

* What are we going to do this year to compel the Muks that this was a net (intended) negative for them -- we have to be active in this space.
* What ground rules must change for next year to this CANNOT happen again
* Getting ourselves aligned on those two things is itself challenging

B

Make any move you want the first card played will be angry rich white racists oppose native subsistence fishing. Continuing a 200 year tradition so stepping on Indian necks to get what you want. It's over , the resource is at a stage that the best you will achieve is a season or two of reprieve at most.

In 2010, Tribal casinos generated $1.745 billion in revenue.
The "subsistence" fishing argument no longer flies.



Good job representing Sky-Guy! Tough, but fair discussion.

In a PR or legal battle facts are irrelevant. It's about the process.

I don't see tribal anglers as an enemy, they want the same things we want... to carry on our heritage, and there has to be a middle ground where we find a way to meet every one's needs.

There needs to be smart management, and with two entities working at managing over the same resource, both must have the clout and strength to fight for truly equal shares. It just so happens that the folks advocating for our share don't have the teeth to win that battle.

Correct me if I am wrong but my understanding is that the err will always be on the side of the tribes because of the treaty. This has been consistent since 1974 and will into the future due to the nature of law. Not seeing them as an enemy does little to change the fact that there is an un equal partnership that cannot be changed.

The smart management is already in place. There are plenty of smart people at every table, conference call, and meeting of every phase within the NOF process.The fair and unbiased management is not in place. We clearly have 'smart' bullys and wimps at the table, and those which evidently only care abut 'their' piece of the pie when they should care, and are paid to care, about others' piece of pie too(cough, Phil!)...

Dirk Diggler, I can't really tell where the hell you are coming from, and I dont really care.... but know this. This year we had *clear* data which showed everyone could get theirs, with robust seasons all around. The Mucklehsoots sabotaged the process for their own benefit because they are sick of people fishing ahead of them, and for other reasons I wont expound upon publicly. You can throw the race card, and cite tradition all you want, you can present any logical fallacy you wish to drive your narrative....but the fact remains that there are laws and rules which must be adhered to. They were not.

Where I coming from is simple. We have 41 years of history of the sportsman getting the short end of the stick. That's not going to change with a dwindling resource. Knock yourself out come back in five years and tell me how far you get. I think it's all talk an posturing because you are out gunned , out manned out ,organized, out funded and out represented and out lawyered.

It's not in our American spirit to be so defeatist. A lot of people don't want to give up on something they care so deeply about. Anything can be changed and some things have.

Riley, are you referring to the ocean sport fishery when you speak of our former Director?

Dirk,

You seem well informed, and who knows you may even be right. But literally NOTHING gets done if you sit on the sidelines. Even worse, you're booing the guys who are INVOLVED and TRYING TO WIN.

Dumb.

B

Ocean Sport, Charter, and commercial.

My guess is you are a relative newcomer to the state . It's all been tried . You cannot negotiate successfully from the low ground . The tribes occupy the high ground and the commercials the middle. You might get a vices soon here and there but over time you will see exactly what has happened . The erosion of opportunity one fishery at a time. We have no leverage other than walking away and bankrupting the wdfw. So it's just more doing the same thing and expecting a different result. If I represented the tribes I would simply play the easiest card. I would paint a very emotional picture that a bunch of rich, white guys with expensive boats want to take away the livelyhood of a oppressed group of people. Just like they have for the past 200 years. I would win walking away.
The only thing that has not been tried is to guarantee the tribes and the commercisls the market value of their paper fish each year not to fish. My rough math shows that would cost each recreational fisher $250.

Good luck to you.

Where is the dotted line to sign on?

Seems to me someone who has been around here for a while would have heard multiple time one tribal representative or another saying they could never be paid off to not fish.

The past proposal was to buy them out. You are not paying them to not fish you are buying the fish at market price before they catch them. They are guaranteed market price in perpetuity . The math and the premise are different and only a fool would pass it up.

"You are not paying them to not fish you are buying the fish at market price before they catch them." How is that not fishing? It has been very clearly stated by every treaty tribe that I know of that they consider the act of fishing as tradition and a way of life and being paid the price of the fish not to actually catch the fish is and never will be on the negotiation table,period. Don't take my word for it, call any or all the tribal counsels you can find and ask them their opinion on paying them for fish before they catch them.

All I said was it was not the same as previous proposals . Never said the tribes would go for it. Never said the sporties would support it. It's a different idea is all it is. I know that the commercials would jump on it yesterday.