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#952116 - 02/26/16 10:10 PM Re: Save our Hatcheries-tell congress! [Re: Fishinnut]
skyrise Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 03/16/00
Posts: 328
Loc: snohomish, wa
than you for hard work and doing so in a positive way. Lawsuits only benefit Lawyers and do not make things better. keep it up !
_________________________
Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?

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#952119 - 02/27/16 07:21 AM Re: Save our Hatcheries-tell congress! [Re: Fishinnut]
_WW_ Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 01/30/13
Posts: 233
Loc: Skagit
Is opting for quick instead of right a good thing to do?
_________________________
Catch & Release Is Not A Crime

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#952124 - 02/27/16 11:45 AM Re: Save our Hatcheries-tell congress! [Re: _WW_]
Brent K Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 08/12/13
Posts: 108
Loc: Arlington, Washington
I would equate it to filing a lawsuit against the WDFW and then settling for a bunch of cash.

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#952125 - 02/27/16 12:11 PM Re: Save our Hatcheries-tell congress! [Re: _WW_]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Originally Posted By: _WW_
Is opting for quick instead of right a good thing to do?


Quick??
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

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#952129 - 02/27/16 02:02 PM Re: Save our Hatcheries-tell congress! [Re: Fishinnut]
Brewer Offline
2112

Registered: 01/11/07
Posts: 4996
Loc: in the mass production zone
done!
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#952146 - 02/27/16 05:33 PM Re: Save our Hatcheries-tell congress! [Re: Fishinnut]
_WW_ Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 01/30/13
Posts: 233
Loc: Skagit
Quick is a relative term...them hurrying should leave lots of loopholes for WFC to fill their coffers with.
_________________________
Catch & Release Is Not A Crime

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#952167 - 02/27/16 07:21 PM Re: Save our Hatcheries-tell congress! [Re: _WW_]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Originally Posted By: _WW_
Quick is a relative term...them hurrying should leave lots of loopholes for WFC to fill their coffers with.


They have had plenty of time to do it and do it professionally. If they now need to move quickly it is a result of their own ineptitude. If they issue permits and WFC wants to sue at least WFC will be suing NOAA. I should add that NOAA's mouthpiece at Sen. Pearson's hearing (Rob Jones?) stated that they accept being sued as part of doing business (basically tossing aside speculation that their actions were due to fear of suit by WFC).

Way past time to get this done!
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

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#952180 - 02/28/16 05:55 AM Re: Save our Hatcheries-tell congress! [Re: Larry B]
_WW_ Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 01/30/13
Posts: 233
Loc: Skagit
Originally Posted By: Larry B


Way past time to get this done!


Absolutely! And I don't think the feds give a rat's ass about lawsuits. And why should they? They're not the guys that want to go fishing.

Some say that haste makes waste. But in this case haste will enable the WFC to continue suing, filing injunctions, etc. to further delay things. It would be prudent to not spoon feed them viable opportunities to do so. But prudent and gov't don't mix well.
_________________________
Catch & Release Is Not A Crime

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#952186 - 02/28/16 10:20 AM Re: Save our Hatcheries-tell congress! [Re: Fishinnut]
Bay wolf Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 10/26/12
Posts: 1075
Loc: Graham, WA
Why can't the state file an injunction baring any further lawsuits on these matters until a study can be completed. Or have the IRS audit their books and membership? Hell, they do that to everyone else who pisses them off.
_________________________
"Forgiveness is between them and God. My job is to arrange the meeting."

1Sgt U.S. Army (Ret)

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#952187 - 02/28/16 10:48 AM Re: Save our Hatcheries-tell congress! [Re: Fishinnut]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7413
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
Because the law says the State needs the permits to release the fish. The question is still simply complying with the law.

I doubt that WFC would be totally successful in arguing the merits of hatchery fish; they'd win some and lose some. But they will will all the suits about process.

And NOAA, by not doing the process, lets the state be sued rather than themselves. And, the state has shown an enviable willingness to roll over so the whole question of hatchery steelhead will disappear along with the broodstock if to don't have permits (and can't release fish) for three years.

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#952193 - 02/28/16 11:56 AM Re: Save our Hatcheries-tell congress! [Re: Carcassman]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
That pretty well summarizes the situation.

It is obvious to me that the first problem is that the law doesn't appear to establish time lines within which the Federal agency must take action on a submittal required under that law. Presumably if there were such conditions and the Feds failed to perform timely the State would have had recourse. That is not a new concept - one merely needs to look at the FOIA requirements for an example.

As to the current situation the comment period for one group has expired and NOAA/NMFS is in a procedural position to take the next step; issue or deny the permit(s). The other comment period is running and NOAA/NMFS needs to be ready to take immediate action once that procedural process requirement is met.

I think it fair to think that there is little new to be revealed by the recent comment periods and, furthermore, comments submitted during the first open period are likely repeated for the second - that is, little or no unique input for NOAA/NMFS's consideration.

Again, it is way past time to get this done!
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

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#952194 - 02/28/16 12:08 PM Re: Save our Hatcheries-tell congress! [Re: Bay wolf]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Originally Posted By: Bay wolf
Why can't the state file an injunction baring any further lawsuits on these matters until a study can be completed. Or have the IRS audit their books and membership? Hell, they do that to everyone else who pisses them off.


I think the "study" is actually the current process being played out. During the last session in Oly there was legislation proposed which would have prevented an entity which sued WDFW from receiving grants from WDFW. It did not pass but was a shot across the bow.

I do believe WDFW was remiss in not seeking an injunction requiring NOAA/NMFS to take action on HGMP submittals and/or to issue temporary permits allowing continuation of EWSH plants pending the Federal agency's action on HGMPs citing loss of broodstock as the anticipated damage resulting from NOAA/NMFS inaction.

Siccing the IRS on WFC might be appropriate - feel free to send a letter to that effect to the IRS.
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

Top
#952207 - 02/28/16 07:19 PM Re: Save our Hatcheries-tell congress! [Re: Fishinnut]
Chasin' Baitman Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 08/15/12
Posts: 253
Ron - thanks for all that you do. I don't know how you are able to also have a day job. You must have several clones!

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