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#95434 - 09/04/00 11:33 PM Legal Snagging ??
kalamabama Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 03/07/00
Posts: 329
Loc: LaCenter Wa USA
OK let me know what you folks think. I have been in the Kalama fishing for the nookies and silvers. 99% of the others fishing this river are snaggers. Big chunck of lead two foot leader very large hook and then a big corky. I know of no fish that would hit this set up. Cast let it sit on the bottem and wait for a line bump and yank. I think this is really cheezy fishing. I have been catching them there legally and getting fish so everyone else should be able to also. I mean seeing this makes me jump up and down mad. Did see the "Man" there today and he says that they must be hooked in the mouth to be legal. All I see are fish comming in side ways. The rigging is clearly for snagging. I think they should all get tickets and lose all the new gear they bought for snagging. What do you think?
Keep the Rivers Clean!!!

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dank
_________________________
dank
Keep The Rivers Clean! smile

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#95435 - 09/04/00 11:51 PM Re: Legal Snagging ??
JTownley Offline
Parr

Registered: 01/13/00
Posts: 40
Loc: Olympia,WA, USA
I agree! Seems like the norm on many rivers is to snag Salmon and even steelhead. I encountered snaggers on the Beginner's hole in July. They were "fishing" a big chunk of lead, a big hook (I couldn't tell if it was a treble) and a big wad of green yarn. They stood up by the road and cast to fish they could see, sometimes right over my line. I could get fish to go once and a while by using very light gear and finesse baits and jigs. The same applies to Salmon. I've even offered the snaggers the same gear I'm catching fish on and most have refused. I did have one convert on the Kalama however, and even though he didn't catch a fish, I think his snagging days are over. I'm afraid it is only going to get worse as more fish move into the rivers. I'd certainly like to hear some solutions to this snagging problem.

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#95436 - 09/05/00 12:33 AM Re: Legal Snagging ??
Steelheader69 Offline
Spawner

Registered: 12/14/99
Posts: 817
Loc: Tacoma WA
Well, I don't believe in snagging or using gear like this. But Bob could probably back me up on this statement. The setup you've described is (or was since I don't fish those rivers that much anymore) a popular setup for kings and such on the Hoh and Solduc. Usually they shorten the leader using such big cheaters or spinnglos so that they stay in the strike zone. Also you need the big lead to get those monsters down. I'm talking about cheaters and spinnglos the size of BOBBERS. I'm like you kalamabama, I use standard size gear and do just fine. I wouldn't be surprised if someone read about this method or are old fisherman from the north coast. Bob would know if they still use this method. I know everytrip I make to the Hoh I always find quite a few of these monster lures. Since my parents don't have property down at the ocean and I live so far away, my trips to the Hoh are limited, so not sure if this is a widely used method anymore.



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#95437 - 09/05/00 04:20 AM Re: Legal Snagging ??
153 Offline
Alevin

Registered: 03/07/99
Posts: 14
Loc: olympia, wa
I hope to fish the Kalama this week from the bank. Is there a phone number to call to report that type of abuse?

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#95438 - 09/05/00 07:59 AM Re: Legal Snagging ??
Native son Offline
Juvenille at Sea

Registered: 06/10/00
Posts: 193
Loc: port angeles wa.
My father in, law may he rest in peace, was fishing on the Green in what was then a fly fishing only section for fall run chinook probably 1974 -1976 era when he ran into some folks who were fishing illegaly with big heavy gear and they all had five gallon buckets half full of roe they were goning to sell to bait fisherman. When he told them what they were doing was illegal one of them pulled a sawed off shot gun out of a shoulder holster and stuck it in his face a nd told him to mind his own **cking bussinness! I'm sure this fellow and his ilk are still out there so be a bit cautious when you walk in on these types.
Actually I can almost see why the cop was on the freeway rather than down there hanging out with those guys, 150 to one, any cop in the world would certainly need back up and I'll bet that doesn't exisist in the day to day workings of WDFW.
Well I'm off to the Waters everything is so low and clear over hear it will be a good view of all the rocks on the bottom and a good walk but I have limited expectations off catching.

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#95439 - 09/05/00 12:31 PM Re: Legal Snagging ??
Coho Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/09/99
Posts: 2682
Loc: Muk
Hey Kalama-

Take a camera, take some shots of these neaderthals-then bring them into the Fish and Wildlife.

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#95440 - 09/05/00 03:26 PM Re: Legal Snagging ??
cohoangler Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 12/29/99
Posts: 1485
Loc: Vancouver, Washington
Kalamabama - I agree this is sick! I fished the lower Kalama and the North Fork Lewis (near the hatchery) this weekend and both rivers were loaded with snaggers. I fished hard but didn't get a strike all weekend. The snaggers did well with their corkies and big hooks. I admit they generally throw back the fish hooked by the tail or fins but if they're hooked anywhere near the head, they're in the fish box. I'm not blaming the snaggers for my bad luck since I often get skunked without any snaggers in sight. However, it's very disturbing to see such a beautiful river with lots of cohos and Chinooks treated like trash. I don't usually get real steamed about a few people snagging but it's gotten out of hand. There's more than just a few people doing it.

To make matters worse, I stopped by the fish trap near Modrow and talked with the WDFW techs that were emptying it. They are not expected to get enough fall Chinooks to meet the needs of the upper hatchery. Yet they have allowed a "sport" fishery in the lower river. Even the WDFW techs were puzzled as to why they opened the fishery. My advice is to close the lower river for fall Chinooks since they can't get enough for the hatchery and those fish aren't being caught by sport anglers. They are being removed from the river by snaggers. I saw several nice Chinooks (20+ lbs) snagged by the gills and removed from the lower river. It's time this stopped!

I'm glad I'm not the only one concerned about this.


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MSB
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#95441 - 09/05/00 03:50 PM Re: Legal Snagging ??
duke Offline
Parr

Registered: 06/23/99
Posts: 57
Loc: Moscow, ID, USA
Kalamabama, now I'm not a plunker, and I certainly am not saying that these guys are not intentionally trying to snag the fish which is just wrong. However, what you describe sounds a lot like an over sized plunking outfit. They need the big weight to get their big honkin lure to sit on the bottom just a fact. "Plunker", any input here. Maybe, these people just don't have a clue on what to use and they are stuck on the bif fish = big lure mantality. Just seems to me if someone is activly trying to snag a fish there must be a better way to sang one then to sit and wait, why aren't they just repeatedly casting out and retrieving ??
I don't know maybe I'm just tired of people jumping to colclusions and saying that 99% of the people are "bad" or snaggers. Even after you asked a guy and he essentially told you that he knew that he had to hook th fish in the mouth for it to be leagal. Why don't you ask him to explain his technique and then determine for yourself if he's really just a snagger. Chances are he may not realize what he's doing wrong and you could give him a couple hints (ie: smaller baits and hook...) that he could use to lower his chances of snagging fish and raise his chance of getting a fish. If he is just a snagger, make sure that you tell him that you just saw the game warden heading upriver and shuld be coming back any minute hehe..

Just my thoughts,

Duke

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#95442 - 09/05/00 04:20 PM Re: Legal Snagging ??
Dan S. Offline
It all boils down to this - I'm right, everyone else is wrong, and anyone who disputes this is clearly a dumbfuck.

Registered: 03/07/99
Posts: 15200
Loc: SE Olympia, WA
duke,

You are WRONG. The Kalama doesn't have enough flow in it now to even drift with 3/16" pencil lead in most places, let alone to require a large chunk of 1/4" lead. Don't believe kalamabama? Then go see for yourself. These clowns are snaggers, pure and simple. It's not a big fish/big lure mentality, it's a big hook and corky-big-enough-that-I-can-see-when-to-snag mentality. If you doubt me, go take a look for yourself. Most guys on this BB know a snagger when they see one. And if you want to see snaggers, just head to the Kalama, Skok, Carbon or any other place that the Kings stack up thick enough to snag in the low water. This AIN'T plunking, this is snagging.

Fish on.......
_________________________
She was standin' alone over by the juke box, like she'd something to sell.
I said "baby, what's the goin' price?" She told me to go to hell.

Bon Scott - Shot Down in Flames

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#95443 - 09/05/00 06:10 PM Re: Legal Snagging ??
Hammer Bob Offline
Fry

Registered: 09/03/00
Posts: 33
Loc: Yolo, Ca. USA
We have two different breeds of snaggers in California. One type have come to be known as "beaders". They use 10-12 ft. leader with the smallest bead possible when fishing from the bank at places where salmon stack up typically below dams or at the mouth of the Klamath. The method is to floss the fish with the long leader as they are breathing and hook them wherever they can. The other type fishes from boats using Gibbs minnows with trebles to snag fish by jigging. Both claim it is a legal fishing method according to the letter of the law but almost all fish are foul hooked some being released but many are not. These methods attract a very unpleasant crowd with reports of knives and guns being drawn....makes for a nice day on the river! I would like to see both methods regulated and there are rumors that CDFG has some plans in the works......but if you believe that then I have a bridge for sale!

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#95444 - 09/05/00 06:14 PM Re: Legal Snagging ??
kalamabama Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 03/07/00
Posts: 329
Loc: LaCenter Wa USA
Thank you for your input guys. Maybe 99% is a bit harsh. I do see the thin line as to the legal part of it. I was just down there and got my limit in one hour pitching a bule fox and non of the guys with the other type of rigs got any made me feel better when I saw some of them start pitching spinners. I guess I will just have to tell everyone there is a better way to catch the fish and more fun that draging them in with 30# test.
Keep the Rivers Clean!!!
_________________________
dank
Keep The Rivers Clean! smile

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#95445 - 09/05/00 10:02 PM Re: Legal Snagging ??
bank walker Offline
Spawner

Registered: 12/26/99
Posts: 771
For one thing, snaggers are NOT fisherman. Im getting tired of hearing about these fuzznuts polluting the river with there huge trebles and bad attitudes. If you see a legitamite snagger call the poacher hotline! Lets bust some of these anklebiters!!

fish right....

><> BW
_________________________
"I have a fair idea of what to expect from the river, and usually, because I fish it that way, the river gives me approximately what I expect of it. But sooner or later something always comes up to change the set of my ways..."
- Roderick Haig-Brown

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#95446 - 09/06/00 02:13 AM Re: Legal Snagging ??
Reel Time Offline
Fry

Registered: 06/23/00
Posts: 27
Loc: Estacada, OR USA
Just wanted to let you all know this problem is not isolated to Washington. Oregon's Eagle Creek off the Clackamas River has more than it's share of these losers. Last year ODFW set up a sting for a weekend and nabbed quite a few of them snagging silvers. I might have tried to "guide" a yarn and corky into the mouth of an occasional non receptive fish in my day. But atleast I was hooking them in the mouth. Not that that makes it right. However, some of these morons make it so blatantly obvious that you can tell what they're doing from 50 yards away. You see them jerking their rods every cast in a pool 3-5 ft. deep. If you report these sightings and ask your fish and wildlife folks for help I bet they would set up a similar sting if the snagging is in a concentrated area. Some of these F&W guys are really cool and they honestly have the same interest in the fish as we do. To preserve the rights and the resources for our kids. -Jason

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#95447 - 09/06/00 03:37 AM Re: Legal Snagging ??
J.C.B Offline
Smolt

Registered: 08/08/00
Posts: 99
Loc: Marysville Washington
The way people do it around my neck ofthe woods is buzzer bombs. Legal hooks and they nail the fish on them. I like the look on their face when they loose that 5$ bomb after hookin a 20# king in the tail. With all that casting the fishing stinks but tthe looks I get after wading out and scooping their bomb off the bottom is worth loosing my hole. Theres no point in fighting with them, and after adding another bomb to my tackle in front of them makes my day. Those buzzers will come in handy next humpy run on the sno.
_________________________
Fish naked!Its fun, natural and it keeps crowding to a minimum.

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#95448 - 09/06/00 01:01 PM Re: Legal Snagging ??
duke Offline
Parr

Registered: 06/23/99
Posts: 57
Loc: Moscow, ID, USA
Well Dan S, thanks for so politely clearing that up... All I really wanted was a second opinion and well I guess I got one. I also see from other posts (Andy Mathews' thread and others here) and it looks like you guys have quite a problem. I'll have take your guys word for it as I don't think I'll drive 5 hours to "see for myself". I've never been around so many people just trying to snag fish so forgive my naievety.
Sounds like you better go get a cell phone and bring it to the river. The only real way to get rid of these clowns is to make this cost them some money and maybe they will think twice the next time. Unfortunately, it sounds like the enforcement is stretched pretty thin so you just have to keep trying if they don't make it there on your first call, don't give up!

Duke

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#95449 - 09/06/00 01:41 PM Re: Legal Snagging ??
TK Offline
Parr

Registered: 03/09/99
Posts: 61
Loc: Snohomish, WA, USA
I've never jumped in on a snagging forum before, so here goes.

There are two illegal types of fishing being talked about here. The setup being used on the Kalama is the same method employed by Sockeye fisherman in AK. It's called "lining", and it is at least somewhat of a crude art form. The long leader is the key, and when the fish swims by and bumps it, you set the hook, usually in its motor (tail). This method was "taught" to me my first year of fishing. (This guy still "fishes" the Sky, owns a sled and a wooden leg, anybody else know him?) I found out why these guys were the only ones catching the stacked-up, lock-jawed silvers. It took me until my 2nd year to realize that this is not fishing and I now abhor it. Hohwaiian, if I remember correctly, thinks this type of fishing is legal, as long as you get them in the mouth when they yawn or flex their jaws.

The other type of buzz bomb/hollow core lead/treble hook setups that are repeatedly yanked and jerked through holding water is done by total morons.

Snagging is only done by people who cannot catch fish the correct way, and are idiots.

TK

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#95450 - 09/06/00 02:05 PM Re: Legal Snagging ??
tyeeterror Offline
Spawner

Registered: 11/04/99
Posts: 612
Loc: The Humboldt Nation
hey guys i live in the northern part of california and have seen the big weight and corkie thing for over 20 years on the mad river. the large corkie is only for the guy to see where his hook is while sight fishing. they wait until a fish swims by and they set the hook. these guys used to put their hook about 18 inches above the weight which was tied to the end of the line. a small piece of yarn was placed on the hook for the game wardens to see. i seen tinfoil used as well. this was outlawed 15 -20 years ago. second, when fishing a deep hole the corkie keeps the hook off the bottom. the fish swims into or past your line and the hook is set. with the corkie floating off the bottom it makes a "u" shape turn during the hook set and ends up somewhere on the belly of the fish. these guys are easy to spot, becuase they set the hook and run backwards. they have to run becuase a fish might have ran into the line several feet above the hook. we also have a huge "lining" (long leader) problem down here. they closed the mouth of the klamath river last year, and this year basically resricted a long leader set up. this concerns me becuase no one can fish a closed area. some one posted earlier than these guys might be plunking, i dont think so. plunking works best in higher flows, not low clear water. anyways my two cents worth.
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#95451 - 09/06/00 03:06 PM Re: Legal Snagging ??
Dan S. Offline
It all boils down to this - I'm right, everyone else is wrong, and anyone who disputes this is clearly a dumbfuck.

Registered: 03/07/99
Posts: 15200
Loc: SE Olympia, WA
duke,

Sorry for being so blunt, but I've seen these snaggers at work many times on the Kalama, so I know kalamabama is speaking the truth. Jigging, snagging, lining, whatever you want ot call it, is a bogus method of landing fish.

I just emailed the WDFW enforcement people and asked why they choose not to enforce the regulations that their own department sets forth. You all ought to try the same thing. If they get enough responses, maybe you'll actually see a Gamie writing a ticket to these goons. We'll see......

Fish on.......
_________________________
She was standin' alone over by the juke box, like she'd something to sell.
I said "baby, what's the goin' price?" She told me to go to hell.

Bon Scott - Shot Down in Flames

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#95452 - 09/06/00 03:26 PM Re: Legal Snagging ??
cohoangler Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 12/29/99
Posts: 1485
Loc: Vancouver, Washington
TK's post has me a bit confused. Is snagging legal if you happen to snag a fish in or around the mouth? I'm not sure but it raises two questions:

Let's say I rig up a corkie with a single 2/0 hook and a sinker and snag a coho by the tail using the "lining" method described in this thread and elsewhere. If I returned the fish to the water, have I done anything illegal?

Let's say I use the same rig and snag a coho in or around the mouth. I keep the fish and note it on my license card. Have I done anything illegal?

I do not have any specific answers but this is exactly the situation on the lower Kalama. Coho snagged by the fins are usually released (but not always). Those snagged near the mouth are kept. I agree that both situations are very difficult to enforce but that doesn't mean it's legal.

Kalamabama - Congrats on getting your limit on spinners. That's a great way to convince the snaggers to change their ways - get your limit by legal means. If you don't mind me asking, what color Blue Fox spinner were you using? I've been skunked several times this year and am grasping at anything to help. Last year I did quite well on cohos with 1/2 oz. green/silver Pixie spoons. Thanks.


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MSB
_________________________
MSB

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#95453 - 09/06/00 06:40 PM Re: Legal Snagging ??
kalamabama Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 03/07/00
Posts: 329
Loc: LaCenter Wa USA
cohoangler #5 blue fox silver blade orange body red #3 gamakatsu hook. Good luck. I have also done good with wiggle warts.

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dank
_________________________
dank
Keep The Rivers Clean! smile

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