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#956896 - 05/05/16 05:51 PM Re: North of Falcon/PMFC update [Re: Evo]
BrianM Offline
Fry

Registered: 02/01/14
Posts: 25
Can anyone confirm that WDFW has submitted its application to NOAA? And assuming so, what route is WDFW taking to get ESA coverage? For example, is it proceeding via a section 7 consultation because there is a nexus to some federal action, or maybe via a Rule 4(d) exemption by submitting a fishery management and evaluation plan. Either way, compliance with NEPA could be a stumbling block to getting the requisite ESA coverage in place in time for this summer's fisheries.

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#956897 - 05/05/16 06:09 PM Re: North of Falcon/PMFC update [Re: Sky-Guy]
Evo Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/29/14
Posts: 4235

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#956898 - 05/05/16 06:14 PM Re: North of Falcon/PMFC update [Re: Sky-Guy]
Salmo g. Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 12535
DOJ could decide not to back BIA. When there are disputes between federal agencies, DOJ can only support one. As best I can tell, BIA has zero authority to approve a fishery management plan pertaining to ESA-listed species. Cool beans.

BrianM,

WDFW cannot use Section 7 due to lack of any federal nexus. Section 10 appears to be the route in that I couldn't find any 4(d) exemption that qualifies. But I'd like to be wrong on that. NEPA does apply to Section 10 actions. I don't know why it doesn't with Section 7, although I've seen NEPA analyses for some Sec. 7 actions but not others. And NEPA is all about the s l o w.

Sg

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#956899 - 05/05/16 06:26 PM Re: North of Falcon/PMFC update [Re: Evo]
eyeFISH Offline
Ornamental Rice Bowl

Registered: 11/24/03
Posts: 12425
Originally Posted By: Evo


I found this part interesting...

Information contact: Region 6 360-249-4628 ext. 0
_________________________
"Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." (Zane Grey)

"If you don't kill them, they will spawn." (Carcassman)


The Keen Eye MD
Long Live the Kings!

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#956901 - 05/05/16 06:35 PM Re: North of Falcon/PMFC update [Re: Sky-Guy]
stonefish Offline
King of the Beach

Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 4655
Loc: Carkeek Park
Some of the creek closures are really interesting.
I've fished some of them and you are just as likely to catch a Striped Marlin in them as you are a chinook.
I guess it is just easier for them to do a widespread blanket closure on anything dumping into the salt....
SF
_________________________
Go Dawgs!
Founding Member - 2019 Pink Plague Opposition Party
#coholivesmatter
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#956910 - 05/05/16 07:04 PM Re: North of Falcon/PMFC update [Re: Sky-Guy]
ronnie Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 307
Loc: Lacey
Are all of these closures necessary due to some ESA mandate or is it a way of getting as many different fisher groups saying "I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore?"
_________________________
Gill nets take no prisoners.

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#956911 - 05/05/16 07:06 PM Re: North of Falcon/PMFC update [Re: ]
OLD FB Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 09/05/14
Posts: 187
Loc: Stanwood WA
Originally Posted By: Steelspanker
Originally Posted By: stonefish
Some of the creek closures are really interesting.
I've fished some of them and you are just as likely to catch a Striped Marlin in them as you are a chinook.


rofl

Thanks for the laugh in an otherwise sad subject.


Plus +++ 1 on this as all of "this" all went from the sublime to the absolutely freeking reeediculous! mad

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#956922 - 05/05/16 10:06 PM Re: North of Falcon/PMFC update [Re: Sky-Guy]
Chasin' Baitman Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 08/15/12
Posts: 253

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#956924 - 05/05/16 10:38 PM Re: North of Falcon/PMFC update [Re: Sky-Guy]
luckydogss Offline
Smolt

Registered: 09/20/06
Posts: 92
Loc: Renton
I'm sure the tribe is wary of getting bad press and it's possible all the advertising dollars they spend also provides them an opportunity to filter stories.

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#956926 - 05/05/16 10:46 PM Re: North of Falcon/PMFC update [Re: Chasin' Baitman]
stonefish Offline
King of the Beach

Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 4655
Loc: Carkeek Park
_________________________
Go Dawgs!
Founding Member - 2019 Pink Plague Opposition Party
#coholivesmatter
979

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#956930 - 05/06/16 06:53 AM Re: North of Falcon/PMFC update [Re: Sky-Guy]
Take-Down Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 02/29/08
Posts: 111
Businesses use PR consultants to place stories with papers and to influence coverage every day. It's legal and accepted, although not much talked about. I suggested to a local conservation group about 3 years ago that they hire such a group. Not a lot of traction. Whether Legal or PR, sport fisherman have been slow to embrace the tools that businesses use to get what they want. The exception is the hiring of a state government lobbyist, which sport fishing groups have done, and which overall has been successful (notwithstanding this current NOF fiasco).

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#956931 - 05/06/16 07:17 AM Re: North of Falcon/PMFC update [Re: Sky-Guy]
Lucky Louie Offline
Carcass

Registered: 11/30/09
Posts: 2286
Walking through the crowd was a reporter from national coverage also.

The good thing about these events over the past couple days is that we are being heard and that through the coverage the general public is wakening up to what is going on to some degree.

Several points in general brought up was that the rockfish debacle came close to shutting down Puget Sound and that Alaska this past year went over their allocation by 100,000 Chinook.
_________________________
The world will not be destroyed by those that are evil, but by those who watch them without doing anything.- Albert Einstein

No you canít have my rights---Iím still using them





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#956932 - 05/06/16 07:22 AM Re: North of Falcon/PMFC update [Re: Sky-Guy]
Evo Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/29/14
Posts: 4235
And Alaska wants more fish now too...

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#956934 - 05/06/16 07:59 AM Re: North of Falcon/PMFC update [Re: Sky-Guy]
MPM Offline
Spawner

Registered: 12/09/08
Posts: 742
Loc: Seattle, WA
I thought the King5 coverage was the most neutral. The Kiro coverage was somewhat misleading (suggesting all fishing was shut down, without making it clear that tribes are fishing).

I wish they wouldn't juxtapose the calm, rational public speaker Willie Frank against an angry sportfisherman. Not a good look. The speakers at the protest were all positive about trying to get a solution that helps everyone, but I guess it's better TV to show anger.

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#956935 - 05/06/16 08:15 AM Re: North of Falcon/PMFC update [Re: MPM]
Chasin' Baitman Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 08/15/12
Posts: 253
Originally Posted By: MPM

I wish they wouldn't juxtapose the calm, rational public speaker Willie Frank against an angry sportfisherman. Not a good look. The speakers at the protest were all positive about trying to get a solution that helps everyone, but I guess it's better TV to show anger.


yeah. the soft tones of the earnest doe-eyed son of a famous civil rights leader are going to play way better than anything we've got. Especially when he's saying stuff like "let's come together to save salmon". The (urban) general public lap that kind of stuff up. It's damn smart and savvy.

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#956936 - 05/06/16 08:19 AM Re: North of Falcon/PMFC update [Re: MPM]
Myassisdragon Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 07/07/14
Posts: 1134
Loc: The Wet Side
Originally Posted By: MPM
I thought the King5 coverage was the most neutral. The Kiro coverage was somewhat misleading (suggesting all fishing was shut down, without making it clear that tribes are fishing).

I wish they wouldn't juxtapose the calm, rational public speaker Willie Frank against an angry sportfisherman. Not a good look. The speakers at the protest were all positive about trying to get a solution that helps everyone, but I guess it's better TV to show anger.


The local TV here rarely just "reports" the news. In this case of the tribes vs. the fishing for fun folks, the core thread has already been crafted....
_________________________
Hmmm

- "Wild steelhead were more numerous this year than they were in the 1970s" ( ITYOOL - 2015 )

- "It's past the time to "play nice", after all, they are pooching us royally."

D'uh!

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#956937 - 05/06/16 08:29 AM Re: North of Falcon/PMFC update [Re: Evo]
Lucky Louie Offline
Carcass

Registered: 11/30/09
Posts: 2286
Originally Posted By: Evo
And Alaska wants more fish now too...


The link provided earlier states Alaskaís rationale for this yearís Chinook allocations comes in part from Alaskaís share of the Columbia River projections.

We all know how ocean fisheries can prosper if projections pan out or not with the terminal areas left with the tribes and state fishers fighting for the scraps instead of working together to get more fish back.
_________________________
The world will not be destroyed by those that are evil, but by those who watch them without doing anything.- Albert Einstein

No you canít have my rights---Iím still using them





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#956948 - 05/06/16 11:26 AM Re: North of Falcon/PMFC update [Re: ]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 2708
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Originally Posted By: Steelspanker
Originally Posted By: MPM
I thought the King5 coverage was the most neutral.


I just wished Lori or the editors would've realized that sport fishers and NT commercials generate a lot more than the "one million dollars of revenue per year" that Lori stated. A verbal typo, I assume. It's at the end of the clip.

http://www.king5.com/tech/science/environment/protest-continues-over-salmon-fishing/175301227


The dollar impact being used is $100 million and as I understand it is pretty much a recreational fishing number tied to the number of fisher trips multiplied by the dollar value/fisher trip established by the 2008 economic study commissioned by WDFW (http://wdfw.wa.gov/publications/pub.php?id=00464).

The actual numbers in the original report are in 2006 dollars so I hope they have adjusted for inflation.
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

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#956955 - 05/06/16 12:33 PM Re: North of Falcon/PMFC update [Re: Larry B]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 3269
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope

Not fish but about tribal influence ( $$$$$$$ ) and our elected yahoos.

cc: Interested Parties & media contacts
Governor Jay Inslee
Attorney General Robert Ferguson
Members of the WA Legislature

AUTO files complaint alleging Attorney General Furgeson's receipt of campaign contributions from tribal governments violates the prohibition against candidates accepting contributions of public funds
On February 1, 2016, AUTO filed a petition requesting adoption of a rule by the Public Disclosure Commission that oversees elections and campaign contributions in state and local elections in Washington State (see details below). The PDC rejected our request and as a result, AUTO's attorney former state supreme court justice Phil Talmadge of the Seattle firm of Talmadge, Fitzpatrick & Tribe has filed a complaint on behalf of the organization with the Attorney General and the Prosecutor in King County. The complaint cites Ferguson's own receipt of contributions from tribal governments when seeking election as the top enforcer of state law as violations of state law and requests a legal complaint be initiated against Ferguson's political action committee "Friends of Bob Furgeson by one prosecutor's office or the other. If neither file a legal action within 45 days, AUTO intends to exercise its rights under the state law to assume the role of the two prosecutors and file a "citizens complaint" on behalf of the state. The complaint is attached.

The issue is the historical use by tribal governments of "public funds" in making political contributions to influence non-tribal elections in Washington state and subsequently, the decisions coming out of the legislative process or the executive branch. State law prohibits candidates from taking contributions from governments with "Public funds, whether derived through taxes, fees, penalties, or any other sources, shall not be used to finance political campaigns for state or school district office."

Earlier, AUTO pointed out to the PDC our belief that these contributions were resulting in hundreds of millions of state taxpayer's dollars flowing out of the state treasury into tribal government accounts. Shared gambling proceeds found in other states with tribal government gambling monopolies were surrendered behind closed doors rather than providing revenue for public schools as intended when Congress passed the Indian Gaming Regulatory Act. The elected officials making these decisions were on the receiving end of millions of dollars in contributions from the same tribal governments granted these extraordinary privileges.

Additionally, AUTO believes an atmosphere of special treatment for tribes at the expense of the other citizens of the state has evolved. Non-tribal citizens are regularly heard complaining about the loss of fishing or hunting opportunities, land use or water rights, and encroachment on to their private property as a result of decisions by state departments including the Department of Ecology, Department of Natural Resources, Department of Transportation, and Department of Fish & Wildlife wherein staff seem compelled to provide prejudicial treatment for tribal interests.

The first reaction of the PDC staff was to prove our point that the contributions by the tribal governments have created an unlevel playing field in state offices for the state's non-tribal citizens. Nearly immediately upon receipt of our petition, the Executive Director and Assistant Attorney General for the PDC consulted with Bill Craig, head of the Governor's Office of Indian Affairs http://www.goia.wa.gov/ . Craig moved quickly to help arrange a meeting between PDC staff and tribal legal representatives. By the time AUTO was invited to a short meeting with PDC staff, it was easy to predict what was going to happen. The end result was the staff convincing the PDC Commissioners to avoid taking any action by refusing our request. The PDC, citing staffing and budgetary constraints, suggested we go to the legislature with the issue.

AUTO was disappointed, but not surprised by the decision of the PDC which resembled a "cut and run" maneuver. As for appealing to the Governor or turning to the legislature, one could hardly envision those arenas would prove a fair hearing on the issue. The Governor's own political action committee and other Democratic PACS have recently received $403,410 from tribal governments (view here). The majority of the members of the legislature from both sides of the aisle have likewise received contributions of public funds from tribal governments and the election fund raising cycle is just beginning.
The option left AUTO is filing a complaint with the Attorney General for violation of the campaign finance laws of the state of WA (RCW 42.17A). Since the Attorney General has likewise received large direct and indirect contributions from the tribal governments (view here), choosing to file against Mr. Ferguson himself allows the opportunity for the public to understand the depth of the conflict of interest that is so readily recognized by non-tribal citizens trying to compete with a tribal government for the attention of elected officials and departmental staff in Olympia.
Washington's "Campaign Disclosure and Contribution" statute was passed by initiative vote of the people in 1972. The drafter's seemingly recognized that elected officials could be less than enthusiastic about enforcement if protecting the citizens meant loss of personal financial support and inserted a provision to prevent the powers at be from denying the citizens rights. In the event both Attorney General Ferguson and King County Prosecutor Dan Satterberg fail to file an action within 45 days against Ferguson's political action committee "Friends of Bob Ferguson", the law states: "(4) A person who has notified the attorney general and the prosecuting attorney in the county in which the violation occurred in writing that there is reason to believe that some provision of this chapter is being or has been violated may himself or herself bring in the name of the state any of the actions (hereinafter referred to as a citizen's action) authorized under this chapter." AUTO's complaint includes the required notice of AUTO's intent to exercise this right and move forward if one or the other doesn't file on behalf of the state's citizens .

Additional details on the law and presentation documents used with the PDC process are available at AUTO's website including documentation showing the funds held by tribal governments are taxes and incomes that fall under the definition of public funds. Statements from representatives of tribes asserting gambling proceeds (like the state's lotto), motel/hotel, sales taxes, etc. paid by non-tribal citizens at tribal casinos, gas stations, and other enterprises are taxes paid by the public to a government are also provided.

Respectfully,
Tim Hamilton
_________________________
Dazed and confused.............the fog is closing in

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#956969 - 05/06/16 02:55 PM Re: North of Falcon/PMFC update [Re: Sky-Guy]
luckydogss Offline
Smolt

Registered: 09/20/06
Posts: 92
Loc: Renton
The state has been doing this for awhile and auto's suits haven't gained much traction that I can find. The suit against the AG campaign funds seem to be because he was obviously was bought in an earlier case.

Look at Auto vs Gregoire in 2010 ( gas taxes). The AG wanted the suit dismissed because they said "any contract with the tribes signed by the governor- no matter how illegal it is or harmful to the Wa taxpayer- is immune from all judicial review because...... the tribe is a necessary part of the suit and also immune from the suit"



So, let me see if I understand this. The tribe is sovereign, therefore can't be held to any WA laws. If our gov ( or anyone else) makes a deal with them and it's found to be illegal, all they need to do is piggyback the tribal immunity and not even the courts can look at it!

Go read it, see if I misunderstood what it said. If this is true, I wish AUTO all the luck with these suits but it seems a fortress has been built and any shots at it just result in a few more bricks. The more I read, the more I think we're fuked

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