Anybody know where Haskel slew is? I believe that is the new/old channel on Hansens farm or am I wrong? George Bush is supposed to be around there tomorrow morning.

If you go south on hwy 203 out of Monroe look to your right after you cross the Skykomish. I hate to say it but GW is being bambuzzled by appearing there and using that project as his idea of a conservation poster child. The project in and of itself was a good project. It was the projects origanators motives that smell like rotten eggs. Go to Heraldnet.com and search for "Haskell Slough". You should find the articles interesting.

Ok I know where. This is to tout private property rights in conjunction with restoration. http://www.heraldnet.com/Stories/99/6/3/10960072.htm

All politicians jump on the bandwagon when its getting down to game time.

there was an intersting article in a recent nw fishing holes magazine about this very project and how it's not actually a project that will do any good for the salmon. in fact many biologists have expressed serious concerns about this project and that it's not actually restoring habitat... a good read even if you think differently.

i'll see if i can dig it up and quote some of it here.

c.

Haskell Slough is 3 miles of side channel stream area that was donated by private landowners to be restored as rearing habitat for coho, steelhead and summer chinook. The landowners wanted to gravel mine a portion of this area, creating some ponds and thus more rearing area, in an effort to raise funds to help pay for repairing a portion of failing riverbank.
The landowners were completely upfront from the beginning about the gravel mining aspect. Curt Beardslee of Washington Trout wrote an article accusing the landowners of trying to use the habitat restoration project as a cover for the gravel mining. Beardslee also claimed that some biologist said that the project was a bad idea, which is pure bull****.
This is the first full year that the rearing area was opened to the river. Our Chapter of Trout Unlimited monitored the smolt trap this spring and thousands of coho and a few hundred chinook and steelhead smolted from this area. These fish were beautiful and healthy.
The landowners have given up on the idea of gravel mining due to problems with the County but still encourage the habitat restoration project. There were a number of editorial responses disclaiming Beardslee's misgivings that were published in the Monroe Monitor.
In this era of habitat restoration, landowners like the ones who donated Haskell Slough should be considered heroes instead of conniving villains.
Thanks to jerks like Beardslee it will be hard for anyone to ask other land owners to give up use of their land for fish restoring projects.

Gary Bee
President of the Sky Valley Chapter of TU.

Beezer, thanks for the background on Haskell slough. I'm curious about Beardslee's comments about the project, it seems like something Washington Trout (I believe he's head of that group) would've have been in favor of..do you know why he's spoken out against the project?

good questions about why washington trout would oppose a private partnership to restore salmon habitat when they have had many such partnerships themselves to restore habitat. unfortunetely, i have only been able to read short tidbits of this story and have not made up my mind one way or the other, but a few things trouble me about this (not about the project). beezer, as a chapter president of TU i think you should watch the way you present your arguments. calling people "jerks" and saying their arguments are "bulls***" are not effective ways to deal with issues. i've had the opportunity to meet kurt beardslee, and i can say with all certainty he is not a jerk. to resort to name-calling over what is a difference in opinion over the best way to spend salmon recovery dollars is counter-productive. to me, i would have been much more receptive to your post without the name-calling and personal attacks. unfortunetely, fishery issues tend to bring out strong emotions on all sides of the issues involved. even though many of us have different ideas about recovery and what is necessary to restore abundant wild fish populations, i hope we can treat each other with the dignity and respect even though we disagree passionately over the specific issues. we are indeed all working towards the same goal, and hearing opposing viewpoints to our own firmly held beliefs is imo a good thing.

good fishing beezer, and thanks for the work and dedication you have towards restoring salmon and steelhead stocks.

c.

I beg to differ with you Beezer. If mr Reiner was so upfront about his intentions why did one of the non-profit restoration groups back out halfway thru the project? I will reread the newspaper articles but if memory serves me the herald reported that Mr Reiner was looking to recoup his cost plus a hole bunch more. It became apparent that he figured if he did this work then it would be easier to get his county permit and his hpa from wdfw. When that tack didn't work he tried to lambaste the county and wdfw for allowing the river to take his property in the press. See now that Haskell Slough has been re-opened to flow the river is starting to change course back to its original channel-Haskell Slough! Thats what rivers do. It is happening on both the north & south fork stilly. The county and state are not against repairing these banks and protecting property but it has to be done right. And your statement that this will be a hinderance to other property owners from getting involved doen't hold water. I have worked on several restoration sites where owners have willingly gave up the buffer space. It may only be 10-15' on each side but they gave non the less with little or no money out of their pockets and sure as h**l no compensation or expectation of recouping expenses or to mine gravel from a river! Flooding is the risk you take when you live in a flood plain and try to tame mother nature. Obviously nobody learned from the 1994 mississippi flooding.

I do not know the whole story about the Haskell Slough resoration and the controversy that it involves.
But I might be able to shed light on why Washington Trout would not support the project.
Washington Trout is a heute teute group of flyfishermen who belieave in NATIVE trout and salmon...many people within this group are very anti-hatchery.
They put NATIVE fish first, fishermen second...which could actually be a good thing.
If Washington Trout sees a project for the fisherman to catch more fish then they might not support, also if a project is too artificial they might not support.
They put some tremendous effort forth and put fish first and can be labeled extremists by some. It could be what our fish need though.

Seems like the original topic was Bush visiting the Sky. How do you feel about George W. being there?

Schlab, my comments about Curt Beardslee were directly the result of his editorial against Haskell Slough. I have never met the guy. I felt all the points in his article were false and/or misleading. Rpetzold’s comments on Washington Trout might shed some light on some of the reasons why he wrote what he did. I still can’t believe that any fish group could be against a habitat restoration project like this one.

Chumkiller, in 1990 the river destroyed a portion of the bank at the top of Haskell Slough. Those who fish this area know it as the bottom of the "Hersey Hole". The County indicated they would fix it. The work was never done. The Reiners have lost hundreds of thousands of dollars in fencing, livestock etc. due to flooding. Since the County has neglected to fix the problem the Reiners decided to try to mine the gravel to pay for the repairs themselves and to recoup some of their past losses. No hidden agendas. The river has been in its current bank for 50 years. If it changes course and enters Haskell Slough it will wipe out 3 miles of farmland and Hwy 203. I don’t buy that “let nature take its course” in this case.

As far as property rights go. There are a lot of side-channel slough areas in the northwest that can be opened up for off channel rearing area located on private land. I feel we need to work with the property owners so they will in turn work with us. The whole Haskell Slough project, including the gravel mining, was laid out a long time ago and when it came time to start the mining process the rules were changed. It’s a wonder the Reiners and the other landowners haven’t kicked us out of there. I still feel that if this project goes sour then we have trouble going up to Sultan or where ever and trying the same thing.

I take it these are clipped, hatchery, fish? I wonder why Terry and Curt have steadfastly refused to allow other hatchery fish to be raised in Woods Creek, Ewell Creek, etc? Their past arguments were that they did not want the hatchery fish taking up native habitat.
Also, not an attack on you Beezer, but the lower Sky is not even close to what it was even 15 years ago. It is now a big channel instead of a nice meandering river. Some caused by flooding some caused by re-shoring property owners banks and some by a certain gravel company who dug huge swaths of gravel out of her bed during low summer flows.

Beezer,
Your group is to be comended for the work they are doing with private property owners. We do need more of this and we are seeing much more of it over the last few years. But as fisherpersons /conservationists we must be aware that groups like the Pacific Leagle Foundation which is a conserative think tank with loads of backing from big developement comanys want to undermine our efforts to restore habitat. Years ago when I owned a small ranch in Montana I looked into this group and believe me they were up to no good. Don't think they cared a damn about us small land owners but loved using us in the name of development, clearcutting without concerns for the land and unrestricted mining.
In the last year or so I've talked with dairy farmers from the Arlington area and commercial fishermen from Washington state and all most every one wants to do there part to save Salmon. But it's frustrating they can't afford to do the things needed to their property to correct problems. Most people who own critical habitat love their land and want to do right by it. Not long ago it was said that there would be 1 Billion dollars put into Salmon recovery. We need a US congress and Senate that is willing to apropriate this kind of money and make sure it gets in the hands of people who truley want to improve the way they do buisiness and help Salmon. Without this help we are only going to drive small land owners over to groups like the PLF and before any of us know it our farmlands will be developed even faster than they are now into housing and stripmall developements. That means the end of our Salmon. Keep up the good work but please be aware of some of the conflicts in the private land rights.

Beezer, I think Mr. Beardslee was very supportive of the Haskell Slough phase 1 portion but critical of the phase 2 portion and the detrimental effect it would have. I re-read the articles in the Everett Herald and there was mention of Mr Reiner being up front about the mining operation. This comment was made by Mr Sayre of Northwest Chinook Recovery. The question(s) I have is- was Mr Reiner and Mr Sayre up front to the county, WDFW, SSFETF, and others that provided grant money and labor towards the project? You said the rules were changed when it came time for phase 2- How so. Did Mr Reiner have permits for phase(s)1 &2 in hand then the county and WDFW changed their mind after phase 1 was completed and the dog and pony show with Jeff Koenings, Gov Locke, Sen(s) Gordon & Murray was over with? The rules being changed was never mentioned in the Herald by either Mr Reiner orMr Sayre. What is your interest or what is your stake in this project? As far as the Skykomish going back into Haskell Slough and destroying 3 miles of land, hwy 203, and t hwy 203 bridge, shouldn't that have been forseen when the project design and engineering work was done? Not trying to pick a fight or anything here. Just my logical rational looking for answers.

Chumkiller, all your questions are justified. I will e-mail you a responce as I feel we have digressed from the orginial topic of this thread. I have a responce from John Sayre concerning this whole matter however it is too lengthy for this formum. My club is envolved cuz Haskell Slough is in our backyard and we do a lot of the field work, willow plantings, sandbagging, smolt trapping etc.

Beezer

Beezer,
I agree with the digression. I received your email and have responded back. I appreciate the time, effort, and information very much.

Take care and tight lines!

Chumkiller