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#960707 - 07/13/16 01:56 PM Re: Skokomish River Atrocity [Re: Slab Quest]
gooybob Offline
Spawner

Registered: 03/01/11
Posts: 993
Loc: Tacoma
Sadly we again avoid the fact that no other single factor decimates the fish runs more than a net strung across a river. While the tribes complain and take millions from the government and make millions from US citizens from casinos and illegal sales of different products they are STILL the number one reason FISHING SUCKS! They talk about pride..........what a joke!

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#960717 - 07/13/16 02:58 PM Re: Skokomish River Atrocity [Re: Slab Quest]
FleaFlickr02 Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/28/09
Posts: 3314
I think ocean fisheries (both commercial and sport) account for more dead fish than gillnets in rivers, but gillnets strung up across your local crick sure does feel like a kick in the nuts; especially when the nets are in 4 or 5 days out of the week.

Truth be told, as much as I hate gillnets in rivers, I think our sport fishing would be a lot better overall if we handed over all commercial harvest to the Tribes. They are entitled to 50% of the harvestable fish, and they plan their fisheries accordingly. Under the status quo, if the NT commercial fleet takes its planned allocation and the runs come in below the forecast, the Tribes still fish to the same schedule/impacts, leaving the runs under-escaped. If the Tribes got to fish for 50% of all returning fish in terminal areas, the Tribes would be assured their treaty rights, and there would be a lot more fish left for in-river sports and the gravel.

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#960726 - 07/13/16 03:37 PM Re: Skokomish River Atrocity [Re: Slab Quest]
jgreen Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 04/18/12
Posts: 315
Loc: Elma, WA
The whole thing stinks. I talked to a young native guy when I stopped by to look at the river on my way up to go camping at the family lake property. He said that it sucks that we don't get to fish. He mentioned that at meetings over the last couple years about setting seasons within the tribe, that since the planting of sockeye (2014 I'm pretty sure) they have been working to shut down the river to non tribal fisherman. He was a pretty nice kid. Must of been only 19 or 20. Drove off in a lifted 2013 or newer F-250.

I knew that was a bad thing when they were talking about it (planting sockeye). Any excuse to shut us out, the tribe will take it. It started with the selected open dates in certain sections of the river (above 106 only open Friday-Sunday), now its flat out closed. The Skok has gotten better, more egg fisherman, and not as many out right snaggers as years past. Sure, it still has its problems, but losing this river really sucks for us broke a$$ shore bound anglers. My first real shot at Salmon every year in my location (minus driving 200 miles round trip).

I thought how cool would a sockeye fishery be? Maybe early July, fly fishing. That would have been fun...Oh well. Im sure the state will just bend over and take it, per usual.

Why don't we organize a "fish in", it sounds like the state isn't arresting or giving out tickets, just mediating with anglers and tribal police. What if 300-400 fisherman showed up and just started fishing and didn't give into tribal pressure. Surely the state would have to do something. Either stand up for us, or start giving out tickets and arresting people and take the tribes side. It won't happen. Recreational fisherman couldn't decide what gear to use. "I think it should be bobber only", "fly fishing only you neanderthals", "free drifting eggs if you use lead then you're a snagger", "Floss em up guys", "skok fly baby". We all know its true. Its the sad reality. Its pretty easy for the tribe to decide, gill nets. Done.

Just watch, they have been trying to get fishing rights to Satsop, give it a couple years, we will see nets up the park and the river will only be open Friday-Sunday above the Highway bridge. Packing us all into the mouth, with all the sleds. Sounds fun.

If they win this, they can get that.

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#960789 - 07/14/16 11:26 AM Re: Skokomish River Atrocity [Re: Slab Quest]
steelhead59 Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 01/09/07
Posts: 155
Loc: Olympia, WA
A good fly fisherman can floss way better than any lead chucker could possibly do. Just saying.

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#960790 - 07/14/16 11:39 AM Re: Skokomish River Atrocity [Re: Slab Quest]
Krijack Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 06/03/06
Posts: 1531
Loc: Tacoma
I am not sure that pushing the issue is the best tactic now, but at some point this may need to adjudicated. The easiest way would be for the state to open the season with a warning and then step back. Once someone got arrested, it would be up the tribe to prove they own the river. Unfortunately, it sounds like what is more likely to happen is the tribe will detain you and hand you over to the state, which will then prosecute for fishing out of season, preventing the ability to for this to ever go to trial.
I remember sitting in a counsel meeting years ago when they were passing a controversial law. They asked their attorney what their options were. He looked up and stated that there were some serious problems with the law, but that they could enforce it up to the the time someone fought it. At that point they could fight up to the court date and then drop the charges, effectively penalizing the defendant but never setting a precedent. It seems that is the approach the state and tribe are taking. Passing rules and laws that effectively mask the real question, whether the tribe has any right to the river. As long as the state does not open it, they effectively own the river. Opening the river up with a statement that no access is allowed, would then allow the legality of ownership to come up.

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#960791 - 07/14/16 11:53 AM Re: Skokomish River Atrocity [Re: Slab Quest]
jgreen Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 04/18/12
Posts: 315
Loc: Elma, WA
All the articles I have read (I haven't talked to any officials directly) stated that the WDFW officers won't be pursuing charges for people fishing. Just being the middle man to make sure fisherman and tribal officers don't get violent when the tribal police try and seize gear. Thats what the Kitsap sun and a couple other publications said.

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#960792 - 07/14/16 11:59 AM Re: Skokomish River Atrocity [Re: Slab Quest]
jgreen Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 04/18/12
Posts: 315
Loc: Elma, WA
"Fish and Wildlife will have enforcement officers at the river when the fishing season begins. Their purpose is less to catch anglers breaking jurisdictional rules the state doesn't fully acknowledge and more to ease expected conflicts between tribal police and anglers. Some anglers might have not heard about the new restrictions. Others might know but will "try to fish anyway," Peterson said."

From the Kitsap Sun

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#960800 - 07/14/16 12:55 PM Re: Skokomish River Atrocity [Re: gooybob]
NOFISH Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 2994
Loc: Olalla, WA
Originally Posted By: gooybob
Sadly we again avoid the fact that no other single factor decimates the fish runs more than a net strung across a river.


It's the habitat.....the population explosion in Hood Canal over the last 100 years has been exponential! Condoms not condominiums!!!
_________________________
Does anyone know where the love of God goes when the waves turn the minutes to hours......Gordon Lightfoot

Damn Stam!
Remember, Ask yourself "What would Stam do?" smile

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#960836 - 07/14/16 07:35 PM Re: Skokomish River Atrocity [Re: Slab Quest]
RICH G
Unregistered


Habitat? what a joke, that has been the biggest lie I ever heard. If the fish are present they will find a way, but without fish there is no chance.

Picture hundreds of fish traps up and down both shores of the Canal, year round prior to 1900, then massive white commercial harvest with gill nets till the 50's, then in 1972 after the bolt decision, gill nets corked off the mouth of every inlet into the Canal until it was a waste of time to set them. By 1975 it was all over.

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#960841 - 07/14/16 08:03 PM Re: Skokomish River Atrocity [Re: Slab Quest]
RICH G
Unregistered


WDFW and the rest of the Washington State government employee fools can help finish off the resources in this state and have full protection, with a nice salary & benefits, vacation and sick leave, and a nice taxpayer funded retirement. And they get all this reward for doing a shatty job.... Good for them and shame on us...

You can say it's not their fault because they don't get to decide management policy, they just do what they are told... So they get a big reward for "doing what their told" and not going against the grain...

Hope they are happy with their paychecks, retirements, and so on.... I wonder if everybody else will be happy with no fish, watching the State employees driving around in nicer cars, living in nicer houses and getting fatter paychecks then they do?? It bet the every day Joe is happy to eat a little less, get paid a little less, drive an old beater and pay rent to someone else so State Employees can enjoy the nicer things in life.

You know they deserve it,,, They deserve to have things a little better than everybody else.....


Edited by RICH G (07/14/16 08:06 PM)

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#960906 - 07/15/16 12:45 PM Re: Skokomish River Atrocity [Re: Slab Quest]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7413
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
This thread, and others, have (at least at times) a theme of Shared Waters and Shared Salmon. Sounds all warm and fuzzy; we can all get behind that.

Why not have WDFW (and the necessary public/open involvement) and each of the Tribes get together to define exactly what kind of fisheries they want to see within each U&A. On the Skok, for example, the tribes wants to harvest 20,000 Chinook, 30,000 coho, and 200,000 chum, with a netting schedule of xyz. The NI side wants 5,000 river chinook, 15,000 coho, and 10,000 chum based on a schedule/limits of abc.

Work this out to the ocean, including BC and AK. The models exist to create this. We would then know what kind of escapements we need to generate that run and what fisheries we will have.

In this way, we should either get agreement on fishery locations or force into the open that certain fisheries are unacceptable. At that point, the state can decide where to put its efforts.

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#960909 - 07/15/16 12:52 PM Re: Skokomish River Atrocity [Re: Slab Quest]
jgreen Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 04/18/12
Posts: 315
Loc: Elma, WA
Unfortunately, the tribe doesn't want to share. At this point, neither do I.

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#960910 - 07/15/16 01:05 PM Re: Skokomish River Atrocity [Re: Slab Quest]
RICH G
Unregistered


I know I am awfully critical of WDFW, and government employees in general... The reason why I feel I am justified in doing that is because I was a government employee for about 17 years. 99% of them don't earn what they get paid, and they get a better life just because they are loyal...


Edited by RICH G (07/15/16 01:06 PM)

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#960913 - 07/15/16 01:12 PM Re: Skokomish River Atrocity [Re: Slab Quest]
RICH G
Unregistered


This whole thing is a sign of the times, maybe they should just arm the Quilbillies with some Assault riffles and hand grenades and send them down to the Skoke bout August first with some 10 foot ladders,,. I'm sure the Natives will have their guns in their Cedar canoes, while they are netting fish with their Cedar woven nets. Would prove to be a productive confrontation I suspect, probably get figured out once and for all.

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#960926 - 07/15/16 03:09 PM Re: Skokomish River Atrocity [Re: jgreen]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7413
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
That's is exactly the point. A public process where they say "It's all ours, you pay for it."

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#960932 - 07/15/16 04:08 PM Re: Skokomish River Atrocity [Re: ]
bob r Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 04/17/13
Posts: 289
Originally Posted By: RICH G
I know I am awfully critical of WDFW, and government employees in general... The reason why I feel I am justified in doing that is because I was a government employee for about 17 years. 99% of them don't earn what they get paid, and they get a better life just because they are loyal...


The real reason you feel this way is because you were the kind of employee you are complaining about now. Don't put all govt. employees in your boat. Saying you were the one percent really doing work is self serving bull*hi*. If you felt that way why keep pretending you were accomplishing any real work when only 1 % was working? Doesn't that make you the worse kind of hypocrite? Collecting a paycheck when your workplace was so dysfuntional that only one % was actually accomplishing any real work is pretty much playing the system. I have more respect for those who stayed feeling they actually were doing their job and felt that way about most of their fellow employees.So you were also part of the problem, not any solution. Another pointless, not well thought out post. Just what we can expect from you. Bob R

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#961060 - 07/18/16 12:51 PM Re: Skokomish River Atrocity [Re: Slab Quest]
N W Panhandler Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 01/05/07
Posts: 1560
Loc: Bremerton, Wa.
The Hood Canal has been closed to Kings for the last 20 or so years due to the Mid Hood Canal Chinook.........Our experts have had 20 years to rebuild these runs.......Its time to call the game folks, its not our fishing pressure that is hurting these fish. ITS TIME TO REOPEN THE HOOD CANAL WITH THE STATED GOAL TO TAKE OUR 50 PERCENT OF THE RUN OF KINGS and of course sockeye, coho, and chum
_________________________
A little common sense is good, more is better.
Kitsap Chapter CCA


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