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#967116 - 11/01/16 08:06 PM Re: Upper Chehalis River Dam Moving Forward? [Re: cobble cruiser]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7411
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
We gotta keep logging; the loggers need the work. We gotta put in more strip malls as the HS grads need jobs. Gotta build more houses with nice river views.

Need to move more people into the state to support the need for more tax receipts.

Natural resources are screwed.

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#967127 - 11/01/16 10:14 PM Re: Upper Chehalis River Dam Moving Forward? [Re: cobble cruiser]
cobble cruiser Offline
~B-F-D~

Registered: 03/27/09
Posts: 2256
Major sick and tired of watching our fish get freakin killed off by political nonsense. When dams are being removed in the name of habitat and restoration, others are being blue printed out for construction. The only thing that makes any sense here is to follow the money (read that as greed). Flood control... gimme a break. mad
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#967135 - 11/02/16 07:14 AM Re: Upper Chehalis River Dam Moving Forward? [Re: cobble cruiser]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7411
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
As long as our economy is based one growth, as long as we need more people to support, through taxes, the services we want, we will need to find places to to put those people.

It is a zero-sum game. The more people we have, the fewer fish and wildlife and trees and and and. The earth has a capacity for life. We are choosing people.

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#967148 - 11/02/16 09:03 AM Re: Upper Chehalis River Dam Moving Forward? [Re: cobble cruiser]
Salmo g. Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 13520
The Chehalis dam is only feasible if we choose the California prerogative of gravity, where water flows uphill, toward money. There is no way this dam makes economic sense, even if the natural environment and natural resources are valued at zero. No offense to Chehalis and Centralia, but there aren't enough key resources to protect that economically offsets the huge cost of the project. If this is a Corps project, the local sponsor mush cough up 25% of the cost. If Lewis Co. residents got to vote on it, they would vote it down just because they are against taxes more than they want to pay for flood control that won't benefit the vast majority of residents. This is one main reason they created the Chehalis basin-wide task force, so that they can spread the cost out to include Thurston and Grays Harbor Counties as well.

I continue to question why it's unacceptable to have I-5 closed for 5 days once every 10 years, on average, due to flooding. What is the loss? There are alternative routes for interstate commerce that may add a couple hours to total travel time. At some point, the notion that the control of nature is possible, let alone economically feasible, needs to be vetted.

The true costs versus benefits of this debacle needs to be objectively analyzed.

Sg

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#967156 - 11/02/16 09:36 AM Re: Upper Chehalis River Dam Moving Forward? [Re: cobble cruiser]
Todd Offline
Dick Nipples

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 28170
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
This project makes perfect sense to a couple of big landowners who stand to make a lot of money developing "flood lands" if they become "less floody"...and local politicians tend to like those kinds of guys, the rest of us and everything else be damned...and dammed.

Fish on...

Todd
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Team Flying Super Ditch Pickle


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#967161 - 11/02/16 10:42 AM Re: Upper Chehalis River Dam Moving Forward? [Re: Salmo g.]
FleaFlickr02 Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/28/09
Posts: 3314
Originally Posted By: Salmo g.
The Chehalis dam is only feasible if we choose the California prerogative of gravity, where water flows uphill, toward money. There is no way this dam makes economic sense, even if the natural environment and natural resources are valued at zero. No offense to Chehalis and Centralia, but there aren't enough key resources to protect that economically offsets the huge cost of the project. If this is a Corps project, the local sponsor mush cough up 25% of the cost. If Lewis Co. residents got to vote on it, they would vote it down just because they are against taxes more than they want to pay for flood control that won't benefit the vast majority of residents. This is one main reason they created the Chehalis basin-wide task force, so that they can spread the cost out to include Thurston and Grays Harbor Counties as well.

I continue to question why it's unacceptable to have I-5 closed for 5 days once every 10 years, on average, due to flooding. What is the loss? There are alternative routes for interstate commerce that may add a couple hours to total travel time. At some point, the notion that the control of nature is possible, let alone economically feasible, needs to be vetted.

The true costs versus benefits of this debacle needs to be objectively analyzed.

Sg


I agree that it makes no sense, and that's what tells me a few, rich a $$holes, looking to get richer, are behind it. As we've seen exemplified plenty of late, rich a$$holes tend to fare pretty well with our incorruptible legislators.

Looking at the various alternatives, it's pretty easy to figure out what area is deemed "critical" for protection. Not surprisingly, the tenants on that area of land have names like Home Depot, Walmart, etc. The people that own that land are probably motivated to get those folks some new neighbors, to take advantage of the great savings that come with building in flood plains, all at the expense of the taxpayers in Lewis, Thurston, and Grays Harbor counties (oh yeah, also at the expense of native fish and wildlife).

I think you may be underestimating the significance of I-5 being shut down for extended periods. Delays in the shipping business are costly, especially on the scale they occur when a major shipping route is blocked. I would venture a guess the people making the decisions will be more interested in what each alternative does to protect I-5 than what it does to protect local residents and businesses.

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#967175 - 11/02/16 12:40 PM Re: Upper Chehalis River Dam Moving Forward? [Re: cobble cruiser]
WDFW X 1 = 0 Offline
My Area code makes me cooler than you

Registered: 01/27/15
Posts: 4549
Dam it and pave it!!!!!!!

WDFW then wont have to justify why they no longer plant jackchit in it moving forward.

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#967178 - 11/02/16 12:52 PM Re: Upper Chehalis River Dam Moving Forward? [Re: cobble cruiser]
jgreen Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 04/18/12
Posts: 315
Loc: Elma, WA
Hey, more hatchery fish mitigation right? Just like the wynoo...oh wait.

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#967303 - 11/03/16 01:37 PM Re: Upper Chehalis River Dam Moving Forward? [Re: cobble cruiser]
WDFW X 1 = 0 Offline
My Area code makes me cooler than you

Registered: 01/27/15
Posts: 4549
Port of Chehalis Shows Support for Dam Near Pe Ell
Other News: Study to Focus on Stormwater Management Plan for Industrial Park
Centralia Factory Outlets

Posted: Thursday, November 3, 2016 10:38 am
By Justyna Tomtas / jtomtas@chronline.com | 0 comments
Port of Chehalis commissioners approved a letter last week in support of Alternative One in the Department of Ecology’s draft Programmatic Environmental Impact Statement presenting options to reduce flooding and improve conditions for aquatic species.
The letter strongly encouraged state officials to take actions to address flooding in the Chehalis Basin, and said Alternative One, which includes the construction of a dam near Pe Ell, appeared to be the best choice to reduce flood impacts in the local community.

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#967308 - 11/03/16 05:53 PM Re: Upper Chehalis River Dam Moving Forward? [Re: WDFW X 1 = 0]
fish4brains Offline
Dah Rivah Stinkah Pink Mastah

Registered: 08/23/06
Posts: 6866
Loc: zipper
How about idiots quit building and developing in the mother [Bleeeeep!] flood plain? [Bleeeeep!]!
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...
Propping up an obsolete fishing industry at the expense of sound fisheries management is irresponsible. -Sg



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#967309 - 11/03/16 06:00 PM Re: Upper Chehalis River Dam Moving Forward? [Re: cobble cruiser]
Todd Offline
Dick Nipples

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 28170
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
It's typical...it's been farmland forever, someone gets it in their mind that cheap farmland that floods can be sold for a LOT of money to develop if it doesn't flood anymore...and then they socialize the costs to do it by getting the taxpayers to pay for a dam that hurts the taxpayers, but helps them.

County Commissioners see the increased tax revenue from having the land be more valuable, and throws the rest of the county under the bus for the benefit of the few developers.

Developers don't pay for it, get the benefits. The County Commissioners don't pay for it, get the benefits. Taxpayers pay for it, twice. First by paying for the project, then by paying for the environmental destruction it causes.

Go team.

Fish on...

Todd
_________________________


Team Flying Super Ditch Pickle


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#967313 - 11/03/16 06:30 PM Re: Upper Chehalis River Dam Moving Forward? [Re: cobble cruiser]
Salmo g. Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 13520
Not surprising that the Port of Chehalis (port? for real?) is supportive. Aside from Ports typically being tax-sucking leeches on citizens while never operating in the fiscal black, Chehalis has been wanting this dam for at least two decades now. As long as someone else pays for it, of course.

I perused the EIS, which is a state (DOE) SEPA EIS, meaning that in order to move forward, federal permits and a Corps EIS will have to happen somewhere down the road yet in order to make this parasite a reality. Alternative 1 in the only one that includes the Chehalis River dam. The fisheries impacts are downplayed in that the proposed action includes habitat restoration as mitigation that would offset, or more than offset, the losses. It's a programatic EIS and I haven't seen the level of detail that would allow one to analyze if maybe the impacts are understated and the mitigation benefits overstated. I also didn't have time to read the economics section to see who the hell they intend to have pay for this.

I do have a concern that Thurston Co., which has the largest and more affluent population and the least affects from flooding, could end up on the hook paying a disproportionate share of the eventual costs. It will be imperative to lobby the Thurston Co. Commission to not sign on as one of the local sponsors. That could likely kill the project because I don't think the Lewis and Grays Harbor Co. tax base could shoulder the financial tax load to pay 25% of the project cost.

I'm trying to figure how to include the concepts of natural and logical consequences and that stupidity should hurt in my comments.

Sg

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#967346 - 11/04/16 08:55 AM Re: Upper Chehalis River Dam Moving Forward? [Re: cobble cruiser]
WDFW X 1 = 0 Offline
My Area code makes me cooler than you

Registered: 01/27/15
Posts: 4549
I thought you guys said this would never happen?

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#967351 - 11/04/16 10:06 AM Re: Upper Chehalis River Dam Moving Forward? [Re: cobble cruiser]
Salmo g. Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 13520
It will not happen if logic and economic reality prevail. The track record of uneconomical dams across the North American landscape shows that we cannot count on it.

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#967356 - 11/04/16 11:01 AM Re: Upper Chehalis River Dam Moving Forward? [Re: cobble cruiser]
WDFW X 1 = 0 Offline
My Area code makes me cooler than you

Registered: 01/27/15
Posts: 4549
Overpopulation and greed will prevail.

To think differently exposes ones liberal beliefs.

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#967579 - 11/08/16 11:49 AM Re: Upper Chehalis River Dam Moving Forward? [Re: cobble cruiser]
cohoangler Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 12/29/99
Posts: 1611
Loc: Vancouver, Washington
Most folks on this BB are thinking that economics, rational decision-making, and common sense will prevail.

If those are "liberal" beliefs, so be it.

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#967731 - 11/09/16 02:02 PM Re: Upper Chehalis River Dam Moving Forward? [Re: cobble cruiser]
WDFW X 1 = 0 Offline
My Area code makes me cooler than you

Registered: 01/27/15
Posts: 4549
Damn the swamp!!!

Trump 2016!!!!

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#967737 - 11/09/16 02:50 PM Re: Upper Chehalis River Dam Moving Forward? [Re: cobble cruiser]
Salmo g. Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 13520
Sent my comment letter.

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#967763 - 11/09/16 05:14 PM Re: Upper Chehalis River Dam Moving Forward? [Re: Salmo g.]
The Trumpster Offline
Impeached X2

Registered: 09/02/15
Posts: 291
Loc: In exile at Mar-a-Lago
Originally Posted By: Salmo g.
Aside from Ports typically being tax-sucking leeches on citizens while never operating in the fiscal black...I'm trying to figure how to include the concepts of natural and logical consequences and that stupidity should hurt in my comments.


Your views intrigue me, have you ever considered running for Thurston County Port Commissioner?
_________________________
Trump 2020 - Keep America great!

"When you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything, grab 'em by the pussy. You can do anything." –Donald Trump

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#967814 - 11/10/16 09:48 AM Re: Upper Chehalis River Dam Moving Forward? [Re: cobble cruiser]
Salmo g. Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 13520
Yes.

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