I notice you didn't mention the people killed in Canada that I pointed out from just ONE derailment. I guess the derailment on the Columbia river earlier this year didn't impress you a bit, either. I do have a problem with that, and the idea that you would even begin to support this kind of mindless garbage on a forum devoted to outdoor activities. Your "viewpoint" (obviously from someone with no "vision" of deaths and destruction that are so obvious to the rest of us) must be profit driven, that's the only logical reason to support crap like this crude oil terminal. Are you a stakeholder or just an idiot? As far as what Francis thinks of this you must not have read the whole thread. Or have you already forgotten what he posted earlier? I wouldn't be surprised, your opinion shows a serious lack of thought. Bob R

Meth and meth addicts a sustainable future. Who needs gas anyway, electric boats is where its at.

I'm proud to live in Grays Harbor (although I must admit finding a job locally is a needle in a haystack proposition).

Without question, the county's greatest asset is its natural resources. Bomb trains can only negatively impact those resources, and they won't bring lasting, meaningful jobs to the county. Sounds like a poor fit to me.

Comments like, "We need gas" are ridiculous. The market is saturated as it is.

I'd love to see more commerce through the Port, but not at the expense of the reasons I choose to make my home in Grays Harbor.

Where did I say I was for or against anything?Quit assuming things.I do not live in Grays harbor and would not assume the right to tell them how to live.

Thanks for the reply.I t seems people know what they do not want out there I was just curious as to what people were open to.It does seem to me that it is going to have to do with the Port.I remember years ago there was talk of making Aberdeen into a major port.I wonder what happened to that.

The mayor might have some good ideas on keeping the community alive, and last time I checked, Francis wasn't the mayor yet.

I did talk to my brother in law yesterday.He works for the city .Basically shrugged his shoulders.He used to have a small cedar mill as a neighbor ........now it is a razor wire encircled pot farm.The new Grays Harbor?

CORRECTION:
Those significant impacts to health and safety are 100% avoidable.

Just DENY the permit.

Does the City of Hoquiam really need a 3600 page document to tell them that?

Sorry Eyefish,
but I don't think that argument is valid. Of course there is a danger if an accident occurs. The 3600 page document is needed to tell them how high the likely hood that an accident will occur, what the likely hood of an accident occurring that has significant damage is, etc.

I bet you every surgery you do has a risk. And I bet if you screw up, that damage could be significant. I also bet you carry insurance and rarely if ever have screwed up. Recently my son took some medicine recommended by his doctor and ended up in intensive care with a severe reaction. No one messed up, it just that with this medicine there was a very slim chance of a problem. He, unfortunately, was the first person that anyone in the hospital had ever seen that had that reaction. Yes, it was clearly stated as possible on the prescription, but everyone believed the risk was greater than the potential of a side effect. We take risks every day and measure the risk against reward. Every time we get in a car we take on risk and cause a slight impact to the environment.

I can's say if the risk is worth it for the plant, but I can say that in all the state, the most of the cheapest houses that exist are in Aberdeen and Hoquiam. Over 18 under $55 thousand. Something must be done.

That is what brought this to my attention.Looked into property and was amazed at the prices.Going to take advantage of it at a recreational level.

Funny thing is that I would be on Francis side of the room if I was a local.But because I ask about the elephant in the room that makes this depot even possible, and I get attacked.The permit is not being denied because you guys are flat fuckking broke and somebody just walked into the room,waving a lot of money around.

The problem is not stopping the depot, but maybe offering an alternative to the starving people and the greedy politicians.

Hey, toobad:

If you really believe oil trains that make noise, spew diesel, hold up traffic (including emergency vehicles), and are a constant threat to send tens or hundreds of people to an early death will improve real estate values, I've got a few things I'd like to sell you. A hundred jobs, mostly awarded to union laborers who don't and won't live around here, is not an attractive enough incentive to be anywhere near worthy of the risk associated with these projects.

You're right to point out that as long as the right palms get greased, public opinion will cease to matter overnight. That IS the way our corrupt government operates. So far, oil prices are too low for the venture to be as profitable as what the investors would like. If that doesn't change soon, the oil companies will abandon all these projects. That is my hope.

Yes, Grays Harbor needs new economic activity. There are plenty of other things that can be shipped or received at the Ports; things that don't jeopardize the area's greatest assets and could provide local, long-term jobs; you know, the kind that help real estate.

I do not want the train.I do not want the train......How many times and ways do I have to say this. If I was there I would be standing next to Francis saying no trains full of oil.I am saying that the reason the train is even on the table is the collapse of the economy.a viable alternative would kill the depot.

Ah they ship by rail because enviros keep jamming pipelines which by the way is the safest way to move petro be it aviation gas for a airport or crude. Global warming crusade for renewable resource development by making everything but to expensive is at the heart of it.

If you think any of these projects were ever intended to help anyone in Grays Harbor County, that's where you're losing me, toobad. Grays Harbor's economy has been in shambles for a long time, and it's never motivated anyone in government or the private sector to take action to avoid a collapse. This is about big profits for big oil, with a side of big carbon tax revenues for the State. For sure, it was sold as jobs, jobs, jobs, but that's never been the motive, and it certainly wouldn't be the long-term outcome.

To Rivrguy's point, it's also about an alternative to blocked pipeline projects. We're not anywhere near ready to get off oil, so to say one or the other is coming our way seems only honest, much as I hate to say it. Pipelines aren't stellar stewards of environments or safety, either, but they have a much safer track record than oil trains....

Could be the the proverbial nail in the coffin...

http://www.thedailyworld.com/news/oil-ca...-supreme-court/

And this from the Seattle Times...

http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news...n-oil-terminal/

It is not just oil guys. The Obama Admin held the wind farm power grid from Texas which is clean energy along with several other projects that add up to over 300 billion of infrastructure work. That our nation needs to be self sufficient in energy is a given and it needs to be done the safest manner possible and as fast as possible to get off foreign oil. Our tanker problem comes because for whatever the reason we have ran in PC correct circles on infrastructure as the politicians battled out the global warming bit. That did nothing for global warming ( if that is your bag ) or energy independence because we then import it from other places. So we need to do our own energy and do it as safe as possible.

Then the other shoe CLEAN energy as fast as it can be done be it solar / wind / or whatever by making it advantageous for all our activities to move away from carbon based fuel. It can be done you know. When my brother had his place in LV his heat was electric as was water. In LV water and heat should be solar and it can be done in fact many things can be done to reduce the use of carbon fuels. Take cars I drove a Tesla S the other day guys that is one damn fine car and no gas no oil. It can be done if we choose too as a nation.