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#971922 - 01/23/17 08:55 AM WDFW Blows it again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WDFW X 1 = 0 Offline
My Area code makes me cooler than you

Registered: 01/27/15
Posts: 4549
WDFW Admits Losing 514,500 Fish in Cowlitz
Missing Fish: Losses Will Begin to Be Felt During 2018 Summer Run

Between Saturday and Sunday, unknown suspects cut nets holding about 100,000 growing salmon, releasing the fish into the lake, according to the Lewis County Sheriff’s Office. Of the roughly 625,900 steelhead and 90,600 cutthroat smolt reared by the Cowlitz Trout Hatchery for release in 2016, roughly 514,000, or about 70 percent of the stock, went missing prior to release.

Posted: Friday, January 20, 2017 11:42 pm
By Jordan Nailon / jnailon@chronline.com | 1 comment
After months of rampant rumors and speculation coming off of the Cowlitz River, the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife has finally confirmed what many area anglers had feared.
Of the roughly 625,900 steelhead and 90,600 cutthroat smolt reared by the Cowlitz Trout Hatchery for release in 2016, roughly 514,000, or about 70 percent of the stock, went missing prior to release.
Those losses are likely to have a negative impact on the summer steelhead runs of 2018-2019 as well as cutthroat returns as early as this summer.
To make matters worse, the WDFW says it doesn’t know where exactly the fish went. Theories to explain the huge losses include bird predation, disease, escape from rearing pens and wildly inaccurate and faulty counting equipment.
On Jan. 9, the WDFW quietly released a fact sheet detailing the historic loss of steelhead and cutthroat trout. On Thursday afternoon, WDFW policy coordinator for the Columbia River, Cindy Le Fleur, spoke with The Chronicle in order to more thoroughly address the situation.
“We’ve not seen anything like this before,” said Le Fleur, who was the only WDFW representative made available for comment.
Numerous attempts to speak on the record with hatchery managers and WDFW biologists were refused and instead passed along to Le Fleur's office over the past month. At one point, when The Chronicle asked if the animals had died, an official from WDFW said no, but provided no additional information about the missing fish.
The loss of more than a half a million fish that would have begun making returns to the Cowlitz River in the summer of 2017 comes on the heels of another loss of about 100,000 fall Chinook salmon smolt in May 2016 when a net pen in Lake Mayfield was vandalized, allowing the fish to escape. This time around, though, there was no nefarious outside act to help explain the loss of more than half a million hatchery fish that fuel the most popular fishery on the Cowlitz River.
On the phone, Le Fleur broke down the numbers provided in the fact sheet even further, noting that of the 202,000 summer-run fish released in the Cowlitz River in 2016, about 183,600 are believed to have been steelhead, with the difference being made up by about 18,600 cutthroat trout. Although she was confident in those numbers, Le Fleur was entirely unsure of where the bulk of that vanishing 2016 stock went.
The cause that the WDFW seems to believe is most plausible is mass bird predation. The tiny fish are reared in lakebound net pens and are essentially captive targets for hungry birds. Le Fleur said that avian predation has been a known problem for some time, so preventative measures are already undertaken. However, she noted that the efforts are by no means comprehensive and added that since this year’s losses are unprecedented, there was little indication that increased protection was needed.
Le Fleur said that the protective bird netting at the rearing pens is not complete and allows for persistent and particularly piscatorial inclined birds to gain access to the fish. Le Fleur noted that Tacoma Power, which owns the hatchery as part of required mitigation efforts for wild fish losses caused by dams on the Cowlitz River, employs the U.S. Department of Agriculture to perform bird harassment operations around the pens. However, those actions are not performed continuously so the birds are free to return when the harassment agents leave. Le Fleur said that there has been talk of stepping up those harassment efforts to include lethal measures on some birds.
“Tacoma is looking into that,” confirmed Le Fleur, who noted that she does not have a firm handle on the regulations pertaining to the harassment of wild birds since different species are subject to different protections from state and federal agencies.
Le Fleur also placed at least some of the blame on smolt counting equipment that she said is known to be largely inaccurate.
“I don’t think it’s reliable, like if two fish go through at the same time. The counting equipment just isn’t perfect,” said Le Fleur. She also noted that lake debris such as sticks and grass sometimes wind up being incorrectly counted as fish.
Le Fleur stated that counting equipment is imperative to getting a handle on how many fish are reared and released each year but admitted that she is not sure where or when the fish counting equipment used by WDFW was purchased or if it is the most accurate option available on the market.
“We can’t count them in the lakes. What we do is we count them, and it’s an electronic fish counter, when they leave, when they are released. That’s part of the problem is you can’t know how many are in there at any give time. They’re in these great big lakes,” explained Le Fleur. “I think the lakes are fairly deep and I don’t know if you can see your way through it. They are not your typical raceways that are long skinny ponds that are maybe four or five feet deep or something.”
Because of that inability to keep tabs on the fish while they are still in the lake rearing pens, it is unknown precisely how long the missing smolt had been missing before the discrepancy was discovered in June.
The fact sheet provided by Le Fleur noted that her department, which is contracted by Tacoma Power to undertake day to day operations at the hatchery, is currently working with the power company to figure out what went wrong and how to prevent it from happening in the future.
So far, Le Fleur says that the actions taken to prevent additional losses to hatchery stock include improved netting and increased bird hazing to include all daylight hours.
“Tacoma Power is in the process of doing an evaluation on the trout hatchery for a rebuild so all of those discussions will be a part of that, including possibly even redoing the lakes,” said Le Fleur.
Those future efforts could include nighttime patrols, shoreline pond covers to deter Blue Herons, and lethal action against some birds. The fact sheet noted that Tacoma Power is currently working to obtain a contract for the lethal bird hazing and anticipates having that program in place no later than fall of 2017.
Fully netted and covered rearing ponds are expected to be in place within the next three to six years.

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#971924 - 01/23/17 10:19 AM Re: WDFW Blows it again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: WDFW X 1 = 0]
eyeFISH Offline
Ornamental Rice Bowl

Registered: 11/24/03
Posts: 12767
WOW... just WOW!
_________________________
"Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." (Zane Grey)

"If you don't kill them, they will spawn." (Carcassman)


The Keen Eye MD
Long Live the Kings!

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#971925 - 01/23/17 11:07 AM Re: WDFW Blows it again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: WDFW X 1 = 0]
Happy Birthday Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7428
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
Just when you think they have plumbed the depths of incompetence they open a new and deeper level.

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#971928 - 01/23/17 02:10 PM Re: WDFW Blows it again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: WDFW X 1 = 0]
onthewater Offline
Fry

Registered: 09/23/12
Posts: 30
One method of getting out of doing something you really don't want to do is to repeatedly show gross incompetence at performing that task. I think the state may just get what it wants. I hope the tribes are paying attention.
_________________________
Always happiest with fish scales on my face.

"Hope I die before I get old" - Pete Townshend, The Who, Musician/Singer/Songwriter and Spokesperson of a generation.

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#971933 - 01/23/17 06:27 PM Re: WDFW Blows it again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: WDFW X 1 = 0]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
This situation occurred in the Spring of 2016 and despite word of mouth (AKA "rumors") it is not mentioned in posted minutes of the Cowlitz River Advisory Group until their 4 November 2016 meeting. Here is a link to the "Notes" from that meeting with the specifics starting in the middle of page 4:

http://wdfw.wa.gov/about/advisory/crag/minutes_110416_CRAG.pdf

One might wonder why it was not brought to the attention of the Group at their 19 July meeting? Link:

http://wdfw.wa.gov/about/advisory/crag/minutes_071916_CRAG.pdf

If one wants to really strain their brain one might ask where the Notes are for the 5 Feb and 25 March meetings shown on the Advisory Group webpage and why these records are shown as Notes (informal) on the documents yet as Minutes on the webpage?

Link: http://wdfw.wa.gov/about/advisory/crag/

By the way, those "great big lakes" are described in her Nov meeting Notes as being 5 acre ponds.

Given the hand wringing and speculation (the ducks ate the food???) one might wonder how many were actually released in past years? And how might that have impacted the rate of return computations?

The only good news is that the Cowlitz River Advisory Group is on the webpage (while the Dungeness Crab Advisory Group is not.(bad)).....









Edited by Larry B (01/23/17 09:36 PM)
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

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#971935 - 01/23/17 07:28 PM Re: WDFW Blows it again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: WDFW X 1 = 0]
Jason Beezuz Offline
My Waders are Moist

Registered: 11/20/08
Posts: 3440
Loc: PNW
The coverup always makes it 10X more egregious. This was definitely swept under the rug. What a bunch of horse [Bleeeeep!].

JTFC
_________________________
Maybe he's born with it.

Maybe it's amphetamines.

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#971936 - 01/23/17 07:30 PM Re: WDFW Blows it again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: WDFW X 1 = 0]
wintersteelheadme Offline
Fry

Registered: 02/25/11
Posts: 31
you would think that months of cormorants diving on the pens, someone would come to the conclusion that they are going to miss some fish!!!! To have it come as a surprise is laughable and inexcusable, they are biologists for gods sake.

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#971937 - 01/23/17 08:11 PM Re: WDFW Blows it again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: WDFW X 1 = 0]
stonefish Offline
King of the Beach

Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 5206
Loc: Carkeek Park
I can imagine the reaction of the business I work for if I told my boss "we lost 70% of our inventory and I don't know where it went......or when we lost it".

Perception of WDFW is at an all time low, so they decide to help put out the fire with super unleaded. What a bunch of [Bleeeeep!] idiots.
SF
_________________________
Go Dawgs!
Founding Member - 2023 Pink Plague Opposition Party
#coholivesmatter

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#971938 - 01/23/17 08:47 PM Re: WDFW Blows it again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: WDFW X 1 = 0]
Dan S. Offline
It all boils down to this - I'm right, everyone else is wrong, and anyone who disputes this is clearly a dumbfuck.

Registered: 03/07/99
Posts: 17149
Loc: SE Olympia, WA
It was kids in leather jackets that did it.

Yeah............that's it.



And one of them had a switchblade.
_________________________
She was standin' alone over by the juke box, like she'd something to sell.
I said "baby, what's the goin' price?" She told me to go to hell.

Bon Scott - Shot Down in Flames

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#971939 - 01/23/17 08:49 PM Re: WDFW Blows it again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: WDFW X 1 = 0]
Dan S. Offline
It all boils down to this - I'm right, everyone else is wrong, and anyone who disputes this is clearly a dumbfuck.

Registered: 03/07/99
Posts: 17149
Loc: SE Olympia, WA

They were here just a minute ago!
_________________________
She was standin' alone over by the juke box, like she'd something to sell.
I said "baby, what's the goin' price?" She told me to go to hell.

Bon Scott - Shot Down in Flames

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#971942 - 01/23/17 09:10 PM Re: WDFW Blows it again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: WDFW X 1 = 0]
Piper
Unregistered


fishing in the lake should be pretty good next year, and the ducks will be fat, slow and tasty...

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#971945 - 01/23/17 09:21 PM Re: WDFW Blows it again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: WDFW X 1 = 0]
eyeFISH Offline
Ornamental Rice Bowl

Registered: 11/24/03
Posts: 12767
Her attempts at reasonable explanations for how the fish were lost are LAME.

Hard not to laugh, except that its so damned sad.
_________________________
"Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." (Zane Grey)

"If you don't kill them, they will spawn." (Carcassman)


The Keen Eye MD
Long Live the Kings!

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#971946 - 01/23/17 09:25 PM Re: WDFW Blows it again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: WDFW X 1 = 0]
eyeFISH Offline
Ornamental Rice Bowl

Registered: 11/24/03
Posts: 12767
Not sure how long I would have a job if I lost 70% of the eyes I took to the operating room... even if I could physically account for each lost eye.

She lost them... can't account for how they went missing... and still has her friggin job 9 months later.

What the hell is WRONG with this picture?
_________________________
"Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." (Zane Grey)

"If you don't kill them, they will spawn." (Carcassman)


The Keen Eye MD
Long Live the Kings!

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#971948 - 01/23/17 10:15 PM Re: WDFW Blows it again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: wintersteelheadme]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Originally Posted By: wintersteelheadme
you would think that months of cormorants diving on the pens, someone would come to the conclusion that they are going to miss some fish!!!! To have it come as a surprise is laughable and inexcusable, they are biologists for gods sake.


You'd think, wouldn't you? So, if not cormorants then what? Where does Occam's razor take us??

Oh, and TPU is supposed to be looking for answers. Waiting.
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

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#971956 - 01/24/17 08:20 AM Re: WDFW Blows it again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: WDFW X 1 = 0]
WDFW X 1 = 0 Offline
My Area code makes me cooler than you

Registered: 01/27/15
Posts: 4549
The meetings I've been at with Cindy baby she is more concerned with getting something out of the vending machine and going outside for one of her many cigarette breaks. It all revolves around her mouth. Food and smoke go in............Excuses come out. The fact she can't even take care of her own body should tell you all you need to know about her effort level. Unfortunately failure is expected at WDFW. As you can see they have a canned list of excuses that puts the blame on everyone but themselves. There is zero accountability.
They are the Cleveland Browns of Fish and Wildlife agencies!!!!!!!!

I've said it for years..............They need to yank the nipple out of their mouth, fire them all, kick their lame union to the curb, and contract with the private sector the state loves to hold accountable. They would save us all money, improve our opportunity, and get the job done.

WDFW is a limp wristed chit show that is firing on all cylinders.

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#971957 - 01/24/17 08:24 AM Re: WDFW Blows it again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: WDFW X 1 = 0]
RUNnGUN Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 1384
Makes me wonder how accurate the plant numbers and information they provide are on other river systems. Could it be that the WDFW lies about what they plant and uses outward migration mortality as a scapegoat? Really opens the distrust door a lot further for me. How was it that hatchery operations were so successful years ago? Why isn't Tacoma Power liable in any of this? If it wasn't for the dams we wouldn't be here anyway.







Edited by RUNnGUN (01/24/17 08:33 AM)
_________________________
"Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it.” – Ferris Bueller.
Don't let the old man in!

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#971959 - 01/24/17 08:30 AM Re: WDFW Blows it again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: WDFW X 1 = 0]
Salmo g. Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 13523
While TP is looking into this I wonder if they will conclude that 5-acre earthen ponds are not a good way to rear steelhead and cutthroat smolts. I think quality control is impossible in that kind of environment.

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#971961 - 01/24/17 08:54 AM Re: WDFW Blows it again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: WDFW X 1 = 0]
WDFW X 1 = 0 Offline
My Area code makes me cooler than you

Registered: 01/27/15
Posts: 4549
Yank their permit.

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#971962 - 01/24/17 08:54 AM Re: WDFW Blows it again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: WDFW X 1 = 0]
downhillphil Offline
Egg

Registered: 04/12/13
Posts: 2
Loc: PDX OR
The Cleveland Browns had one win; what do you consider the WDFW victory this year?
_________________________
There's no I in team, but there is in Phil.

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#971964 - 01/24/17 10:50 AM Re: WDFW Blows it again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: WDFW X 1 = 0]
Happy Birthday Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7428
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
One of the constantly circulating stories in fish culture is what happens when effective predator netting is installed over rearing raceways/ponds. In more than a few cases the pond has "rolled" due to low DO as there were too many fish in it. Complete unawareness of how many were removed by birds, snakes, rats, and other fish eaters.

QC is difficult in the ponds as is simply getting a good count. To do so (good count, good control, good anything) takes money and commitment to success. WDFW seems to have little of either any more.

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#971980 - 01/24/17 01:19 PM Re: WDFW Blows it again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: WDFW X 1 = 0]
Happy Birthday Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7428
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
And we still buy licenses...............

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#971982 - 01/24/17 01:29 PM Re: WDFW Blows it again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: WDFW X 1 = 0]
STRIKE ZONE Offline
GOOD LUCK

Registered: 08/09/00
Posts: 12107
Loc: Hobart,Wa U.S.A
Ouch.Good luck,

SZ

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#971990 - 01/24/17 03:07 PM Re: WDFW Blows it again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: WDFW X 1 = 0]
fishbadger Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 03/06/01
Posts: 1195
Loc: Gig Harbor, WA
Originally Posted By: WDFW X 1 = 0
They are the Cleveland Browns of Fish and Wildlife agencies!!!!!!!!


I try to stay out of these kinds of threads, but I gotta give credit where it's due. . .that's some pretty funny stuff right there!

fb
_________________________
"Laugh if you want to, it really is kinda funny, cuz the world is a car and you're the crash test dummy"
All Hail, The Devil Makes Three

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#971993 - 01/24/17 03:53 PM Re: WDFW Blows it again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Carcassman]
DrifterWA Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 04/25/00
Posts: 5077
Loc: East of Aberdeen, West of Mont...
Originally Posted By: Carcassman
And we still buy licenses...............


I just got a email.......License Fees are going to be the same as this year thru..

"License fees for the 2017-2018 season have not changed from the previous year".....

Sounds like WDFW is running scared !!!!!!!!
_________________________
"Worse day sport fishing, still better than the best day working"

"I thought growing older, would take longer"

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#971997 - 01/24/17 04:16 PM Re: WDFW Blows it again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: fishbadger]
NickD90 Offline
Shooting Instructor for hire

Registered: 10/26/10
Posts: 7260
Loc: Snohomish, WA
Originally Posted By: fishbadger
Originally Posted By: WDFW X 1 = 0
They are the Cleveland Browns of Fish and Wildlife agencies!!!!!!!!


I try to stay out of these kinds of threads, but I gotta give credit where it's due. . .that's some pretty funny stuff right there!

fb


They're actually worse than the CB's. The CB's won a game this year. As far as I can tell, the WDFW is still 0 fer' 1 zillion.
_________________________
“If the military were fighting for our freedom, they would be storming Capitol Hill”. – FleaFlickr02

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#971998 - 01/24/17 04:16 PM Re: WDFW Blows it again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: WDFW X 1 = 0]
Happy Birthday Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7428
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
Think about it. ONLY the Leg can raise fees. They haven't, yet. WDFW is selling new licenses, like always. If the leg approves a fee increase it will occur on the date set in the law. So, 17-18 fees may go up sometime later this year.

So, save money. But now before the fees go up!

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#972001 - 01/24/17 05:00 PM Re: WDFW Blows it again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Carcassman]
FleaFlickr02 Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/28/09
Posts: 3314
Originally Posted By: Carcassman
Think about it. ONLY the Leg can raise fees. They haven't, yet. WDFW is selling new licenses, like always. If the leg approves a fee increase it will occur on the date set in the law. So, 17-18 fees may go up sometime later this year.

So, save money. But now before the fees go up!


If you act now, you'll get the same, $hitty opportunity you got last year for the same, unbeatable price!!!

It seems very likely to me that this is a ploy to make the growing number of us saying we won't buy licenses until we see justice buy our licenses early. I urge those of you in that boat to stand strong and wait to see what comes our way at NOF this year. If the prospects look good, I'll be standing in line with you to cave. If not, we can really put the pressure on by staying the course.

You can bet WDFW's budget is going to take a hit if this ploy doesn't work. That's precisely what needs to happen, to remind them whom they need to better represent.

Our rally cry:

Nice try, but I won't buy.
Stick that catch card in your eye!

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#972004 - 01/24/17 05:36 PM Re: WDFW Blows it again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: FleaFlickr02]
eyeFISH Offline
Ornamental Rice Bowl

Registered: 11/24/03
Posts: 12767
Originally Posted By: FleaFlickr02

Our rally cry:

Nice try, but I won't buy.
Stick that catch card in your eye!


Yeah, baby... more business for the eye docs!
_________________________
"Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." (Zane Grey)

"If you don't kill them, they will spawn." (Carcassman)


The Keen Eye MD
Long Live the Kings!

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#972006 - 01/24/17 05:49 PM Re: WDFW Blows it again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: FleaFlickr02]
NickD90 Offline
Shooting Instructor for hire

Registered: 10/26/10
Posts: 7260
Loc: Snohomish, WA
Originally Posted By: FleaFlickr02
Originally Posted By: Carcassman
Think about it. ONLY the Leg can raise fees. They haven't, yet. WDFW is selling new licenses, like always. If the leg approves a fee increase it will occur on the date set in the law. So, 17-18 fees may go up sometime later this year.

So, save money. But now before the fees go up!


If you act now, you'll get the same, $hitty opportunity you got last year for the same, unbeatable price!!!

It seems very likely to me that this is a ploy to make the growing number of us saying we won't buy licenses until we see justice buy our licenses early. I urge those of you in that boat to stand strong and wait to see what comes our way at NOF this year. If the prospects look good, I'll be standing in line with you to cave. If not, we can really put the pressure on by staying the course.

You can bet WDFW's budget is going to take a hit if this ploy doesn't work. That's precisely what needs to happen, to remind them whom they need to better represent.

Our rally cry:

Nice try, but I won't buy.
Stick that catch card in your eye!


Yup. Exactly. I'm only going to pony up for draw hunts now. Fishing is going to be a wait and see thing for me. Between Flea and myself, that's almost $200 right there. Get 20K additional like minded fellows on board and that's a cool $2 million.

We are the customer in this equation. Per usual, WDFW is just another Gubmint agency that thinks its the other way around. Don't piss off the Golden Goose or it'll chit on ya!
_________________________
“If the military were fighting for our freedom, they would be storming Capitol Hill”. – FleaFlickr02

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#972068 - 01/25/17 09:53 PM Re: WDFW Blows it again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Carcassman]
Sol Duc Offline
April Fool

Registered: 06/18/01
Posts: 16138
Originally Posted By: Carcassman
And we still buy licenses...............

Not me.
_________________________
He who joyfully marches in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would suffice.

- Albert Einstein.

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#972077 - 01/26/17 08:20 AM Re: WDFW Blows it again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: WDFW X 1 = 0]
WDFW X 1 = 0 Offline
My Area code makes me cooler than you

Registered: 01/27/15
Posts: 4549
Not clam digging this year?

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#972107 - 01/26/17 04:07 PM Re: WDFW Blows it again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: WDFW X 1 = 0]
Sol Duc Offline
April Fool

Registered: 06/18/01
Posts: 16138
Not crazy about razors,give me some steamers or mussels,and I'm good.
_________________________
He who joyfully marches in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would suffice.

- Albert Einstein.

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#972115 - 01/26/17 06:54 PM Re: WDFW Blows it again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: WDFW X 1 = 0]
Lucky Louie Offline
Carcass

Registered: 11/30/09
Posts: 2286
Natural Resources & Parks - 2/2/2017 1:30 p.m.


Senate Full Committee
Senate Hearing Rm 3
J.A. Cherberg Building
Olympia, WA

REVISED ON 1/26/2017 AT 5:10 PM

Work Session:
1) Briefing on the loss of Cowlitz hatchery steelhead and cutthroat stock.

2) Examples of state agency efforts on the government-to-government relationship requirement.
_________________________
The world will not be destroyed by those that are evil, but by those who watch them without doing anything.- Albert Einstein

No you can’t have my rights---I’m still using them





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#972119 - 01/26/17 07:05 PM Re: WDFW Blows it again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Sol Duc]
Dan S. Offline
It all boils down to this - I'm right, everyone else is wrong, and anyone who disputes this is clearly a dumbfuck.

Registered: 03/07/99
Posts: 17149
Loc: SE Olympia, WA
Originally Posted By: Sol Duc
Not crazy about razors


??????


I don't think I trust you any more.
_________________________
She was standin' alone over by the juke box, like she'd something to sell.
I said "baby, what's the goin' price?" She told me to go to hell.

Bon Scott - Shot Down in Flames

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#972144 - 01/27/17 08:22 AM Re: WDFW Blows it again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: WDFW X 1 = 0]
WDFW X 1 = 0 Offline
My Area code makes me cooler than you

Registered: 01/27/15
Posts: 4549
Seems odd.

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#972459 - 02/02/17 12:20 PM Re: WDFW Blows it again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: WDFW X 1 = 0]
WDFW X 1 = 0 Offline
My Area code makes me cooler than you

Registered: 01/27/15
Posts: 4549
It's about F'ing time!!!!!!!!!!!
Roast em Pearson!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
GIVE US FISH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Senate Hearing Will Probe Half-Million Missing Fish From Cowlitz River
Fishing for Answers: Sen. Kirk Pearson Anxious to Grill WDFW Leadership in Meeting Today in Olympia


Posted: Thursday, February 2, 2017 11:14 am
By Jordan Nailon / jnailon@chronline.com
It turns out that when a government agency loses more than half a million fish, people are bound to notice.
The fish in question, as was first reported in The Chronicle on Jan. 20, went missing from the Cowlitz Trout hatchery late last spring and early summer. That report sent shock waves through the region, and the most recent party to take notice and demand answers is none other than the Washington State Senate.
“When I read your story I was incensed. I didn’t know if it was true or not, and then reading what they said, I thought it was total mismanagement,” said Sen. Kirk Pearson, chairman of the Natural Resources and Parks Committee. “They didn’t even say ‘I’m sorry. I screwed up.’ I’m pretty passionate about things like that.”
On Thursday the Senate’s Natural Resources and Parks Committee will hold a hearing, set for 1:30 p.m. in Senate Hearing Room 3 at the Capitol Campus, in order to probe officials from the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife for answers as to how so many fish can go missing and why it took so long for the rampant rumors of the loss to be confirmed to the public.
The hearing was arranged by Pearson, a Republican from Monroe. Both WDFW director Jim Unsworth and WDFW deputy assistant director Kelly Cunningham are expected to attend the meeting in order to field questions from the committee.
“I believe, especially with the department pushing increased fees in hunting and fishing licenses this year and yet we have fewer hunting and fishing opportunities, they need to come and explain to us how in the world do you lose a half million fish,” said Pearson. “I believe the director will be in front of my committee explaining and I have a lot of questions. We have some management problems at the (Fish and Wildlife) department.”
The loss of those summer steelhead and cutthroat trout smolt represents about 70 percent of the summer stock that was supposed to be released last year. The loss will likely hit the popular Cowlitz River steelhead fishery hard beginning in 2018 when the first big run of those steelhead would have begun to make their return from the ocean to the river as adult fish. The cutthroat trout that were lost would have begun returning this summer.
Pearson noted that fisheries in his district have also been negatively impacted by actions taken both by, and against, the WDFW in recent years so he is particularly sensitive to the economic, recreational and ecological impact of the the lost fish.
“When I see this on the Cowlitz I’m going, ‘Good lord!’ This is serious. It seems like I didn’t see the level of urgency I would expect. It just sounds like they are kind of whining,” said Pearson. “I want to make sure my kids and grandkids, and everybody’s kids and grandkids, have the chance to fish in the future.”
Pearson noted that he has wide-ranging concerns that were brought to the surface by comments made by WDFW policy coordinator for the Columbia River, Cindy Le Fleur, in the original story.
In a “fact sheet” drafted by Le Fleur, no definitive cause was pinpointed. Instead the blame was spread around to a number of theories including bird predation, disease, miscounting and premature escape from lake net pens. In one instance Le Fleur, who noted that the counting equipment is essential for managing the lake-reared trout populations, said that she does not believe the equipment used by the WDFW on the Cowlitz River is accurate.
“I don’t think it’s reliable, like if two fish go through at the same time. The counting equipment just isn’t perfect,” said Le Fleur, who noted that lake debris such as sticks and grass sometimes wind up being incorrectly counted as fish.
Le Fleur admitted that she was not sure of the vintage or origin of the counting equipment used by the WDFW, or if it is the most accurate option available on the market.
That statement in particular caught Pearson’s attention.
“It makes me wonder if all the counting equipment that the Fish and Wildlife uses is inadequate,” said Pearson.
According to Pearson, the issues at hand go beyond the interests of anglers or fish lovers. He sees a need for accountability from government officials, especially those using public funds to manage public resources. He wonders why it took so long for the WDFW to acknowledge the loss of half a million smolt, even amid direct speculation.
“The department has a lot of explaining to do and they need to take their job a little more seriously,” said Pearson. “People want transparency in government and how can you be transparent when you are pulling garbage like this.”
The senate committee hearing will be streamed live online at TVW.org.

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#972486 - 02/02/17 07:14 PM Re: WDFW Blows it again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: WDFW X 1 = 0]
ned Offline
Spawner

Registered: 06/09/07
Posts: 666
Loc: MA 5, 9, 10
Tried to tune in but could not. Anyone know the results, or get any good sound- bites?

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#972487 - 02/02/17 08:06 PM Re: WDFW Blows it again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: WDFW X 1 = 0]
Lucky Louie Offline
Carcass

Registered: 11/30/09
Posts: 2286
You can watch it on tvw archive. The committee was not very impressed.


Edited by Lucky Louie (02/02/17 08:08 PM)
_________________________
The world will not be destroyed by those that are evil, but by those who watch them without doing anything.- Albert Einstein

No you can’t have my rights---I’m still using them





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#972489 - 02/02/17 08:13 PM Re: WDFW Blows it again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: ned]
CedarR Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 08/04/99
Posts: 1463
Loc: Olympia, WA
I tried to watch the TVW broadcast, but couldn't catch the testimony on the Cowlitz fiasco. KING TV did give the hearing some coverage on their evening news:

http://www.king5.com/news/local/wfdw-tries-to-explain-missing-fish/396271138

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#972501 - 02/02/17 11:50 PM Re: WDFW Blows it again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Lucky Louie]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Originally Posted By: Lucky Louie
You can watch it on tvw archive. The committee was not very impressed.


Okay, I attended. Probably the most succinct comment was from Director Unsworth that the greatest failure (and I paraphrase) was in how they handled this unfortunate event both in timeliness and completeness. To that end Senator Pearson expressed displeasure that he and his committee were not promptly informed. That was pretty much the "fireworks."

As to specifics, the production goal was:

Summer steel: 625,900
Late Winter Steel: 644,000
Cutthroat: 90,000

Facilities include 4 lakes each with a release structure to a common channel and counter prior to reaching the river. Ponds #1-#3 are five acre and have netting around the perimeters but not the center while #4 is 2 1/2 acres and fully netted. One of the 5 acre ponds was not in use due to prior erosion issues. And while it was purported that it was difficult to fully net the large ponds there was also a comment that it could be done for $500K.

As to the counter Eric (in charge of all hatchery ops) testified that they are regularly calibrated but are subject to errors such as multiple fish passing through at one time being counted as one fish but can also to count debris as a fish. He also commented that it is impossible to enumerate fish in the poinds.

The 2016 plan was to release 625,900 summer smolt. It was testified that they had two loss events (cold water and some disease issues) such that 540K actually went from the raceway to the ponds. Ultimately, they counted 202,200 being released with some being cutthroat. So what happened to the missing 337,800?

Well, that is still a question without a verifiable/quantifiable answer. It seemed that the primary villain was bird predation with an added factor that the one pond being unused meant higher density in the other ponds making those fish more susceptible.

Short Term Actions:

1. Smaller mesh netting at ends
2. Increased hazing (WDFW had expended all of its hazing $) to include all daylight hours
3. Shoreline netting (guess that means to keep otters out)
4. TPU going to pursue permitting for lethal bird control on site
5. Better estimates of in season mortality

Long Term Action:

1. TPU to be requesting $5 million for facility improvement (they own the hatchery)

My personal observations:

1. The hatchery staff apparently did not notice unusual bird activity.

2. The idea that one pond being out of commission resulted in a higher density of fish in the remaining ponds which made them more prone to predation ignores that for over the 40+ years of operations there was far more fish were being reared in those 5 ponds. My guess is that the density of 2016 fish was actually less than in those prior high production years.

Questions I would like to ask:

1. Is it possible that prior years' actual releases were far below those reported? And if so, how might that affect analysis of prior year rates of return?

2. Will proposed short term actions minimize losses to 2017 smolt?

That's it from my messy notes.
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

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#972505 - 02/03/17 07:43 AM Re: WDFW Blows it again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: WDFW X 1 = 0]
Happy Birthday Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7428
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
Predation, and the known solutions to it, have been known and implemented since at least the late 80's. At that time, WDF stopped shooting birds because they were just doing what they were programmed to do. Instead, netting and covers to rearing vessels were installed. That means that 25 years of knowledge and practice got ignored. And, as a fish cultures, you couldn't tell that you were feeding 300-500K less fish? Tacoma should look into the massive waste of food as well as DOE for the deliberate pollution of the Cowlitz by throwing all that excess food in.

I find in interesting that the head of the Fish Program, who came up through Hatcheries (working in the ponds, spawning the fish, rearing the fish) was not at the hearing defending the actions. Rather, folks who "manage" them were there.

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#972515 - 02/03/17 10:25 AM Re: WDFW Blows it again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Carcassman]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
That takes us back to the gist of my question. Exactly how was 2016 significantly different than all of the prior years? The fish density theory simply didn't fly with me (pun intended) and if there was truly such a huge, disproportionate loss compared to prior years and the birds did it - why wasn't that bird activity observed by staff?

Will we ever have a supportable explanation? Probably not.
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

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#972522 - 02/03/17 12:26 PM Re: WDFW Blows it again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: WDFW X 1 = 0]
Happy Birthday Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7428
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
Staff wasn't watching... Too few staff. Staff at other facilities in the Complex because they were short-staffed.

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#972524 - 02/03/17 12:45 PM Re: WDFW Blows it again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: WDFW X 1 = 0]
Old Crab Offline
Alevin

Registered: 03/29/13
Posts: 19
Loc: Hood Canal
If they are actually short of staff, a quick fix would be to take those scientific folks studying the nesting habits of the Yellow Billed Cuckoos ( which my Audubon books say their are few to none) could either be released from WDFG to do something personally more satisfying or moved to some project our license fees are supposed to support, like hatchery support. Just my $.02.

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#972526 - 02/03/17 01:01 PM Re: WDFW Blows it again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: WDFW X 1 = 0]
Happy Birthday Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7428
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
The way it seems to work now, you do only the tasks paid for. Say your job is to monitor/count/ID salmonid smolts. That does not include counting or ID'ing sculpins, dace, lamprey, amphibians.

One's position/tasks are narrowly defined. This is why, often, the samplers who do salmon ignore rockfish and vice-versa.

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#972534 - 02/03/17 04:07 PM Re: WDFW Blows it again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: WDFW X 1 = 0]
Smalma Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/25/01
Posts: 2844
Loc: Marysville
Maybe I'm confused but I thought that the Cowlitz steelhead hatchery is a mitigation hatchery funded by Tacoma City Light for impacts from their dams. If so isn't the funding source outside of Fish and Wildlife and General funds - no reason (at budget reason) to be shorted staff for any extended period of time .

Curt

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#972535 - 02/03/17 05:27 PM Re: WDFW Blows it again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: WDFW X 1 = 0]
NickD90 Offline
Shooting Instructor for hire

Registered: 10/26/10
Posts: 7260
Loc: Snohomish, WA
Even with the extremely low bar already set, a public utility is hardly going to be more efficient or effective than a government run agency. Maybe by a half measure, but not by much. KPI's and personnel performance metrics are foriegn concepts to both - as are proper staffing levels. Doing less with more is the saying. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if Tacoma Light ran off a skeleton crew.

None of it is acceptable. My guess is that someone REALLY screwed up and accidentally killed the fish and the agencies are trying to cover their tracks. You just don't lose 300 - 500K fish. I'm a firm believer that the longer it takes someone to come forward with a problem or issue, the more likely fvckery is afoot. Gotta have the time to formulate the excuse.

But...but...but...the birds ate them!
_________________________
“If the military were fighting for our freedom, they would be storming Capitol Hill”. – FleaFlickr02

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#972599 - 02/04/17 06:59 PM Re: WDFW Blows it again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: WDFW X 1 = 0]
Salmo g. Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 13523
Money isn't the issue. TP spends $4,000,000 or so per year funding the Cowltiz hatcheries. Staffing shouldn't be an issue.

If the electronic fish counters are unreliable, which is common with that kind of equipment, how does WDFW know how many fish they are short? Does WDFW know how many steelhead and cutthroat were produced and released in any of the years since the electronic counters were installed?

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#972602 - 02/04/17 07:36 PM Re: WDFW Blows it again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: NickD90]
onthewater Offline
Fry

Registered: 09/23/12
Posts: 30
Originally Posted By: NickD90
fvckery is afoot.


This is my favorite comment in this entire thread.

And I agree wholeheartedly. I also don't think state taxpayers should bear any of the financial burden in fixing this mess. It should come out of TPU's pockets and any state funded hatchery staff that were paid to monitor those fish should be released and/or relocated.
_________________________
Always happiest with fish scales on my face.

"Hope I die before I get old" - Pete Townshend, The Who, Musician/Singer/Songwriter and Spokesperson of a generation.

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#972606 - 02/04/17 08:58 PM Re: WDFW Blows it again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Salmo g.]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Originally Posted By: Salmo g.
Money isn't the issue. TP spends $4,000,000 or so per year funding the Cowltiz hatcheries. Staffing shouldn't be an issue.

If the electronic fish counters are unreliable, which is common with that kind of equipment, how does WDFW know how many fish they are short? Does WDFW know how many steelhead and cutthroat were produced and released in any of the years since the electronic counters were installed?


Absolutely on point. This really sheds doubt on all of the prior release numbers and could well explain - at least in part - poor rate of return numbers.

During the hearing Sen. Pearson delved into the counter reliability and WDFW explained that the Cowlitz hatchery outflow with counter is unique to their hatchery system.

That said, the counter was reported to have been calibrated as in prior years so any errors in 2016 should have been consistent with prior years.
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

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#972617 - 02/05/17 08:20 AM Re: WDFW Blows it again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: WDFW X 1 = 0]
Happy Birthday Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7428
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
From today's Dully Zero " We've gone from being one of the first states taking action with one of the highest aquatic invasive species budgets to being one of the poorest funded programs". This from a WDFW staffer.

But, for those with memories longer than the last Twitter cycle, WDF (W) used to be the world leader in hatchery operation, nutrient enhancement (ecosystem needs), lowland lake/OD management, and probably a few other activities. The above quote applies to them, too.

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#972682 - 02/06/17 08:33 AM Re: WDFW Blows it again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: WDFW X 1 = 0]
Backtrollin Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 10/18/07
Posts: 174
Loc: Duvall, WA
This is a long shot, but why not speculate, this is the internet-

Seems to me there is very little security at Blue Creek. The conspiracy theorist in me thinks it could be possible that an environmental extremest could simply open the gates early and let those fish out prior to them being mature, thus killing them.

It happened at Tokul Creek (but it helped them), why couldn't it happen here.

There are lots of people cheering the fact that a bunch of Hatchery fish are dead, I don't think its a stretch to think some fanatical person could have single handedly killed a bunch of hatchery fish.

My questions are....

300K fish die an nobody notice an extra amount of dead fish laying in the ponds? (seems fair even if there are some birds around)

What security measures are in place at this facility? Camers? Fences? Locks?

What kind of investigation was done?

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#972683 - 02/06/17 08:39 AM Re: WDFW Blows it again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: WDFW X 1 = 0]
Sky-Guy Offline
The Tide changed

Registered: 08/31/00
Posts: 7232
Loc: Everett
If WDFW cannot count fish in a pond, how confident can we be with the estimates in Rivers, Lakes, Sound, and the Ocean?

One has to wonder....
_________________________
You know something bad is going to happen when you hear..."Hey, hold my beer and watch this"

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#972738 - 02/07/17 08:07 AM Re: WDFW Blows it again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: WDFW X 1 = 0]
WDFW X 1 = 0 Offline
My Area code makes me cooler than you

Registered: 01/27/15
Posts: 4549
As far as I'm concerned they should put the guy who raises all the pheasants and plants them in charge of raising and planting the fish.

At least when people show up to hunt them they are always there.

Our fisheries are a train wreck.
Heads should roll.

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#972818 - 02/07/17 10:29 PM Re: WDFW Blows it again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: WDFW X 1 = 0]
Black Bart Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 319
Loc: Adna
Brett, rest assured no WDFW heads will roll in corrupt Region 5.

Biggest bunch of retards and liars that I have ever seen, this going at least twenty years. From Wolfe Dammers to pig nose Cindy and feckless Lee Van T. Screw the pooch on the job you were assigned, it's all good, no one will notice and we don't care if they should. We are un-elected power brokers and in totally in charge so don't even think you can suggest that we should be held accountable for the actions that we feel are needed to save the wild salmon from extinction.
_________________________
Just lettin' it roll, lettin' the high times carry the low
Love livin' my life, easy come easy go

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#972831 - 02/08/17 08:52 AM Re: WDFW Blows it again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: WDFW X 1 = 0]
WDFW X 1 = 0 Offline
My Area code makes me cooler than you

Registered: 01/27/15
Posts: 4549

"Screw the pooch on the job you were assigned, it's all good, no one will notice and we don't care if they should."


I guess the only question that remains is what the hell are we gonna do with all the pups?

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#973817 - 02/24/17 12:45 PM Re: WDFW Blows it again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: WDFW X 1 = 0]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
I was wading through the Senate Natural Resources and Parks Committee postings and found WDFW's presentation for those who may be interested: https://app.leg.wa.gov/CMD/Handler.ashx?...&att=false.







Edited by Larry B (02/24/17 12:45 PM)
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

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