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#974740 - 03/11/17 06:16 AM NOF Comment Period
stonefish Online   content
King of the Beach

Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 5205
Loc: Carkeek Park
Please submit your comments on what you'd like to see as far as salmon seasons this year.
Let's fish rather then sit on the sidelines this summer.
SF

http://wdfw.wa.gov/fishing/northfalcon/comments.html
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Founding Member - 2023 Pink Plague Opposition Party
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#974745 - 03/11/17 10:06 AM Re: NOF Comment Period [Re: stonefish]
Bay wolf Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 10/26/12
Posts: 1075
Loc: Graham, WA
Stone, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but any public comments are absolutely meaningless at this point!

The State and the Tribes have already started their "Secret Meetings" and are negotiating away your fish! No matter what we might suggest, recommend or ask for, they Tribes have to agree or we get no permits. No permits mean no fishing for us. Oh, but they get permits no matter what!

Of course, WDFW will tell you they can't do anything about it because the Tribes are a sovereign governments and don't have to obey our State Laws!
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"Forgiveness is between them and God. My job is to arrange the meeting."

1Sgt U.S. Army (Ret)

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#974746 - 03/11/17 10:35 AM Re: NOF Comment Period [Re: stonefish]
stonefish Online   content
King of the Beach

Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 5205
Loc: Carkeek Park
I'm still going to submit my comments to get my two cents in regards of whether you, WDFW or the tribes deem them worthless.

I supported your petition as well.
SF


Edited by stonefish (03/11/17 12:01 PM)
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Go Dawgs!
Founding Member - 2023 Pink Plague Opposition Party
#coholivesmatter

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#974762 - 03/11/17 02:40 PM Re: NOF Comment Period [Re: stonefish]
Bay wolf Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 10/26/12
Posts: 1075
Loc: Graham, WA
Originally Posted By: stonefish
I'm still going to submit my comments to get my two cents in regards of whether you, WDFW or the tribes deem them worthless.

I supported your petition as well.
SF


Thank you for the support on the petition.

I'm sorry. I didn't intend to mean your comments are "Worthless". To the contrary, it is comments from the citizens that spurred WDFW to send out their press release. What I intended to mean, is that without the Tribes agreement to any recommendations the state is powerless to put them into effect. Actually, the State will do as the Tribes tell them in hopes the Tribes allow us to have any season at all. The State is so afraid of the Tribes walking out of the negotiations, the negotiations have lost all semblance of fairness. The State asks for public input to give the illusion that they have the power to do as the people ask.
_________________________
"Forgiveness is between them and God. My job is to arrange the meeting."

1Sgt U.S. Army (Ret)

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#974768 - 03/11/17 03:46 PM Re: NOF Comment Period [Re: stonefish]
Lucky Louie Offline
Carcass

Registered: 11/30/09
Posts: 2286
The Tulalip tribe, WDFW, and others already know how I feel about last year’s stunt of the Tulalip tribe coming out of the NOF with a direct Coho fishery and with a 100% allocation of those Coho going to the tribe.

Hopefully, they can do a little bit better in this year's go-around.
_________________________
The world will not be destroyed by those that are evil, but by those who watch them without doing anything.- Albert Einstein

No you can’t have my rights---I’m still using them





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#974769 - 03/11/17 03:48 PM Re: NOF Comment Period [Re: stonefish]
Krijack Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 06/03/06
Posts: 1531
Loc: Tacoma
FOB>> FOB>>> FOB>>>>
The is a quick note on how we got to where we are today, as described by a past department director.
When he was appointed deputy director of WDFW, Wilkerson said, “I want to put an end to this crap. I’m not interested in being deputy director if you’re not interested in putting an end to this embarrassing war.”


By 1983, when I became director, I’d pretty much had enough. We were still fighting daily in the fisheries advisory board, something Dr. Whitney oversaw for many years. The court was still basically managing the fisheries. I think Judge Boldt was one of the great judges in the history of the United States, but I don’t know that he and Dr. Whitney alone could manage as substantial a fishery as we had.

I was supposed to oversee the management. Billy thought at that time that he should be managing fisheries. Billy started it, by the way. Billy was starting to talk about (the fact) that the treaty right is the way, but what good is it doing when we’re fighting over a smaller and smaller resource?

I thought that was our job to protect the salmon. I thought our statute was crystal clear.

In 1983, I had come to a political conclusion myself, and I persuaded Gov. Spellman: We needed to end the fish war. The Boldt decision had the potential to be the most important and best thing that ever happened to the salmon resource in the state’s history. In the last 40 years, I think I was right: The best thing that has happened to the salmon in the state of Washington was the Boldt decision.

That was not a popular view. It probably still isn’t, but that doesn’t matter because it’s the law of the land. It has nothing to do with allocation, it has to do with raising the importance of the resource in the public’s mind.

We managed our way through a season together in 1984, at the same time forming the U.S.-Canada treaty together. It was just amazing how much attention we were able to garner for the fish at that time. Billy and I were starting to make speeches to larger crowds. People were sick of the fish wars. People were concerned about the fish.

Why do I say the Boldt decision was good? Because the Boldt decision triggered all of those things. It forced us to finally get together. Getting together doesn’t mean we were singing kumbaya. We didn’t agree with each other on everything, but we worked together. Billy and I started going to to D.C. together and telling the delegation we needed money,

Our society doesn’t have a sense of history like the tribes have. One of the things I respect most about what’s going on here today is the fact that multiple generations are meeting to discuss how we all got here.

If you ever feel like the Boldt decision can be taken for granted, don’t go there. The Boldt decision is the key to protecting the salmon, the key. You’re the political leverage. You have the legal leverage, and boy did I want to get on that train. And it was the best choice and I and my two bosses, Gov. Spellman and Gov. Gardner, ever made. We decided to be with you in your commitment to protecting the salmon and shellfish resources in the state of Washington. That proved to be better politics than fighting the tribes and fighting their treaty rights, I’m proud to say to the younger generation that your job is to continue the cooperation we built in in the 1980s because it works and it gives you power and it gives the state power that it would never have had if it weren’t for the gentlemen behind us, Judge Boldt.

With the lack of cooperation coming from the tribes, the answer is simple, go back to the FOB!

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#975331 - 03/22/17 02:21 PM Re: NOF Comment Period [Re: Lucky Louie]
TwoDogs Offline
Smolt

Registered: 04/29/03
Posts: 86
Loc: Mount Vernon, WA
I would be interested in knowing what alternative plan you proposed last year that was rejected regarding the harvest of Tulalip hatchery coho. It isn't clear to me that anything else would have been possible given the preseason forecasts.


Edited by TwoDogs (03/22/17 02:23 PM)
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#975333 - 03/22/17 03:00 PM Re: NOF Comment Period [Re: stonefish]
Lucky Louie Offline
Carcass

Registered: 11/30/09
Posts: 2286
Exactly, with the poor preseason forecast, the Tulalip tribes still came out of the extended NOF process last year with a direct Coho fishery agreement without a corresponding sport angler harvest equaling 100% allocation to the Tulalip tribes.
_________________________
The world will not be destroyed by those that are evil, but by those who watch them without doing anything.- Albert Einstein

No you can’t have my rights---I’m still using them





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#975334 - 03/22/17 03:08 PM Re: NOF Comment Period [Re: stonefish]
Sky-Guy Offline
The Tide changed

Registered: 08/31/00
Posts: 7232
Loc: Everett
And as a biproduct, they were not fishing in Area 8-1, so we had no ability to estimate the coho run in order to open up the snohomish system. After the WDFW requested they conduct a test fishery and the Tualips refused, it took a couple more weeks to come to an agreement to allow sport anglers into the Snohomish system for a fishery. This was well after most fo the coho had entered the system.
this year, my hope is that the LOAF will include language that protects sports fishing interests in these scenarios. I've made the request twice. we'll see.
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You know something bad is going to happen when you hear..."Hey, hold my beer and watch this"

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#975345 - 03/22/17 04:41 PM Re: NOF Comment Period [Re: stonefish]
Krijack Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 06/03/06
Posts: 1531
Loc: Tacoma
Does anyone know that the options will allow for the inner Puget Sound fisheries. It appears that the fisheries will be limited by encounters rather than abundance of hatchery fish, so this could be quite a concern. I cannot believe that this was not addressed in negotiations with the tribe so the I assume the numbers are out there. It is real hard to comment on the options if there is no way to see what the numbers and splits will be like in the sound. It is possible that the majority of encounters will be left for the tribal netting, meaning that they could be fishing over an abundance of hatchery fish while we sit and watch. I am not sure if I am missing anything, so if anyone has an answer I would appreciate it.

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#975479 - 03/24/17 10:47 PM Re: NOF Comment Period [Re: Lucky Louie]
Lucky Louie Offline
Carcass

Registered: 11/30/09
Posts: 2286
Originally Posted By: Lucky Louie
With the poor preseason forecast, the Tulalip tribes still came out of the extended NOF process last year with a direct Coho fishery agreement without a corresponding sport angler harvest equaling 100% allocation to the Tulalip tribes.


So sport anglers forego a percentage of sport Coho fishing in the Snohomish R. each year for egg collection at Wallace Hatchery, and they are distributed to the Tulalip’s Gobin Hatchery at no cost to the tribe. In return no corresponding Coho sport angler season last year in common with the Tulalip’s open season, coming out of NOF.

Then a Tulalip refusal for a test fishery to open up the Snohomish R.?
Maybe that is why I saw 2 WDFW test fishery boats from Gray’s Harbor on trailers and then docked in the Everett Marina. After they left, the season opened shortly. Coincidence? I don’t know.


Edited by Lucky Louie (03/24/17 11:03 PM)
_________________________
The world will not be destroyed by those that are evil, but by those who watch them without doing anything.- Albert Einstein

No you can’t have my rights---I’m still using them





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#975481 - 03/25/17 07:16 AM Re: NOF Comment Period [Re: Sky-Guy]
Lucky Louie Offline
Carcass

Registered: 11/30/09
Posts: 2286
Originally Posted By: Sky-Guy
After the WDFW requested they conduct a test fishery and the Tualips refused...,

this year, my hope is that the LOAF will include language that protects sports fishing interests in these scenarios. I've made the request twice. we'll see.


Following up on my concerns and suggestions made throughout the year just before and then after the earlier start of negotiations between tribes and state this year, I think we both know that there is good news coming, at least in my neck of the woods, without a last minute hiccup.
_________________________
The world will not be destroyed by those that are evil, but by those who watch them without doing anything.- Albert Einstein

No you can’t have my rights---I’m still using them





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#975522 - 03/25/17 06:45 PM Re: NOF Comment Period [Re: stonefish]
Lucky Louie Offline
Carcass

Registered: 11/30/09
Posts: 2286
Salmon seasons in this area sounds like a different story though. If it shakes out like suggested, it will be time to sell the boat.
_________________________
The world will not be destroyed by those that are evil, but by those who watch them without doing anything.- Albert Einstein

No you can’t have my rights---I’m still using them





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