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#976407 - 04/20/17 09:18 AM Re: 2017 NOF Puget Sound results [Re: Sky-Guy]
GodLovesUgly Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 04/20/09
Posts: 1269
Loc: WaRshington
The good news is this winter has really broken a salmon-destructive weather pattern that we have been faced with over the past several years. We are seeing really strong outmigrant numbers from the Snohomish system at present which is great.

Come next spring when it is time for season setting there will be no "bad weather" excuses to toss around....
_________________________
When I grow up I want to be,
One of the harvesters of the sea.
I think before my days are done,
I want to be a fisherman.

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#976412 - 04/20/17 11:14 AM Re: 2017 NOF Puget Sound results [Re: Sky-Guy]
FleaFlickr02 Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/28/09
Posts: 3314
Unfortunately, GLU, while ENSO neutral conditions (okay for salmon) are forecast to persist through most of this summer, most models are predicting a return to El Nino (bad for salmon) by late summer/early fall.

Read it and weep.

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#976413 - 04/20/17 11:30 AM Re: 2017 NOF Puget Sound results [Re: Sky-Guy]
eyeFISH Offline
Ornamental Rice Bowl

Registered: 11/24/03
Posts: 12766
39 months straight of positive PDO (bad for salmon) and counting....

http://research.jisao.washington.edu/pdo/PDO.latest.txt

Spring kings have been largely maxi-jacks.

Sardine biomass has collapsed.

https://yubanet.com/california/west-coas...nsecutive-year/
_________________________
"Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." (Zane Grey)

"If you don't kill them, they will spawn." (Carcassman)


The Keen Eye MD
Long Live the Kings!

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#976427 - 04/20/17 04:42 PM Re: 2017 NOF Puget Sound results [Re: Sky-Guy]
FleaFlickr02 Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/28/09
Posts: 3314
Interesting to look at the PDO numbers Doc posted and think back on how salmon fishing has been in various years. Our last great season was 2014, which was preceded by two years of consistently negative PDO. The PDO in 2014 was largely positive, and we all know what has happened since.

Should we be alarmed that the positives we have seen over the past few years are significantly higher than any other grouping of positive data in that entire table?

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#976428 - 04/20/17 04:46 PM Re: 2017 NOF Puget Sound results [Re: Smalma]
Lucky Louie Offline
Carcass

Registered: 11/30/09
Posts: 2286
Add BC’s piece of the pie too.
http://www.pcouncil.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/2017_PreSeason-Report-III_042017.pdf

Also in the link another brilliant idea—lets lower the escapement objective goals. If the numbers don’t work-- let’s try these instead. crazy

“The projected spawning escapement for Queets River coho is below the FMP objective of 5,800 natural spawners. Under court orders for Washington coastal and Puget Sound stocks, the treaty tribes and WDFW may agree to annual spawner targets that differ from the FMP objective. In 2017, the tribal and WDFW co-managers agreed to an escapement objective of 5,130.”

This report to the US Secretary of Commerce sure looks like one of many smoking guns of why our fisheries are in the condition they are today and getting worse.
_________________________
The world will not be destroyed by those that are evil, but by those who watch them without doing anything.- Albert Einstein

No you can’t have my rights---I’m still using them





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#976436 - 04/20/17 07:44 PM Re: 2017 NOF Puget Sound results [Re: Lucky Louie]
eyeFISH Offline
Ornamental Rice Bowl

Registered: 11/24/03
Posts: 12766
Originally Posted By: Lucky Louie


“The projected spawning escapement for Queets River coho is below the FMP objective of 5,800 natural spawners. Under court orders for Washington coastal and Puget Sound stocks, the treaty tribes and WDFW may agree to annual spawner targets that differ from the FMP objective. In 2017, the tribal and WDFW co-managers agreed to an escapement objective of 5,130.”



This is euphemistically referred to as "lowering the escapement floor".

For perspective, what they've done this year is NOTHING compared to 2016. In order to put together last year's NOF/PFMC ocean salmon fishing package, the escapement floor on Queets coho was lowered to 2900.

Things that make ya go, "HMMMMMMMMM?"
_________________________
"Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." (Zane Grey)

"If you don't kill them, they will spawn." (Carcassman)


The Keen Eye MD
Long Live the Kings!

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#976438 - 04/20/17 08:41 PM Re: 2017 NOF Puget Sound results [Re: Sky-Guy]
Piper
Unregistered


We're getting close to MSY = 2 MSH = 1

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#976439 - 04/20/17 09:06 PM Re: 2017 NOF Puget Sound results [Re: Sky-Guy]
eyeFISH Offline
Ornamental Rice Bowl

Registered: 11/24/03
Posts: 12766
Desperate times call for desperate measures when ALL sides want to keep fishing.
_________________________
"Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." (Zane Grey)

"If you don't kill them, they will spawn." (Carcassman)


The Keen Eye MD
Long Live the Kings!

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#976443 - 04/21/17 07:27 AM Re: 2017 NOF Puget Sound results [Re: Sky-Guy]
Lucky Louie Offline
Carcass

Registered: 11/30/09
Posts: 2286
Derivatives of the sea.

Keep speculating---and we are all going to get burned.
_________________________
The world will not be destroyed by those that are evil, but by those who watch them without doing anything.- Albert Einstein

No you can’t have my rights---I’m still using them





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#976448 - 04/21/17 08:37 AM Re: 2017 NOF Puget Sound results [Re: FleaFlickr02]
GodLovesUgly Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 04/20/09
Posts: 1269
Loc: WaRshington
Originally Posted By: FleaFlickr02
Unfortunately, GLU, while ENSO neutral conditions (okay for salmon) are forecast to persist through most of this summer, most models are predicting a return to El Nino (bad for salmon) by late summer/early fall.

Read it and weep.


I guess my point wasn't clear. I understand that environmental conditions continue to be unfavorable for salmon, to say the least....

...I was more bringing about the point that with a more beneficial weather cycle the "Bad weather" negotiating tactic will not hold water. Lets face it.... the "bad weather" argument has been used as a smoke an mirrors buzz word for the co-managment both in their season setting as well as their (NWIFC) press releases.
_________________________
When I grow up I want to be,
One of the harvesters of the sea.
I think before my days are done,
I want to be a fisherman.

Top
#976465 - 04/21/17 05:35 PM Re: 2017 NOF Puget Sound results [Re: eyeFISH]
eyeFISH Offline
Ornamental Rice Bowl

Registered: 11/24/03
Posts: 12766
Originally Posted By: eyeFISH
39 months straight of positive PDO (bad for salmon) and counting....

http://research.jisao.washington.edu/pdo/PDO.latest.txt

Spring kings have been largely maxi-jacks.


Sardine biomass has collapsed.

https://yubanet.com/california/west-coas...nsecutive-year/


John North, a biologist with the Oregon Department of Fish and Wildlife's Columbia River program, said a rough look at 152 coded wire tags recovered by fish checkers from anglers showed nearly a quarter of the salmon were close to the 24-inch mark.

However, he said, all were 4- and 5-year-old adults.

....

Obviously these fish aren't getting squat to eat.

Saw quite a few more maxi-jacks on several txts today
_________________________
"Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." (Zane Grey)

"If you don't kill them, they will spawn." (Carcassman)


The Keen Eye MD
Long Live the Kings!

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#976467 - 04/21/17 07:27 PM Re: 2017 NOF Puget Sound results [Re: Sky-Guy]
Smalma Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/25/01
Posts: 2844
Loc: Marysville
eyefish -

That small size seems to be a continuation of what I say last year with the fall Chinook. It made no difference whether the fish were from Puget Sound, Willapa Bay or Buoy 10 to my the 3 and 4 year old fish were 3 to 6 #s smaller than normal with only the largest fish (5 year olds?) seemly "normal" size.

It is interesting the Columbia springs are all so small; especially since it is clear they feed in different parts of the ocean than the State's fall fish. That is evidenced by the low encounter rates of Columbia springs in any of the North Pacific fisheries.

One has to be concern that give the wide spread occurrence of small Chinook that marine survivals will be lower than expected. Fingers crossed that will not be the case.

Curt

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#976472 - 04/22/17 07:49 AM Re: 2017 NOF Puget Sound results [Re: eyeFISH]
Lucky Louie Offline
Carcass

Registered: 11/30/09
Posts: 2286
Originally Posted By: eyeFISH
Originally Posted By: Lucky Louie


“The projected spawning escapement for Queets River coho is below the FMP objective of 5,800 natural spawners. Under court orders for Washington coastal and Puget Sound stocks, the treaty tribes and WDFW may agree to annual spawner targets that differ from the FMP objective. In 2017, the tribal and WDFW co-managers agreed to an escapement objective of 5,130.”



This is euphemistically referred to as "lowering the escapement floor".

For perspective, what they've done this year is NOTHING compared to 2016. In order to put together last year's NOF/PFMC ocean salmon fishing package, the escapement floor on Queets coho was lowered to 2900.

Things that make ya go, "HMMMMMMMMM?"


Since this is a yearly report, I noticed the low Queet numbers last year along with other agreements between WDFW and the tribes.

“Tribal and WDFW comanagers agreed to 2016 escapement objectives of 31,000 Grays Harbor wild coho, 2,900 Queets wild coho, 1,800 Hoh wild coho, and 4,000 Quillayute wild coho.”

http://www.pcouncil.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/2016_Preseason_Report_III_FINAL.pdf

“It is not anticipated that any aspect of the final management measures would decrease long-term yield.”

Considering how inaccurate they are when anticipating other things like say run projections, this style of gambling is not very comforting, especially considering the way the ocean hasn’t been cooperating.
_________________________
The world will not be destroyed by those that are evil, but by those who watch them without doing anything.- Albert Einstein

No you can’t have my rights---I’m still using them





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#976487 - 04/23/17 06:16 PM Re: 2017 NOF Puget Sound results [Re: Sky-Guy]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7413
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
Buddy up in AK has been studying the salmon in the ocean and is seeing a real decline in size at age for Chinook and coho. Some of the coho decline seems to be because the pinks are outcompeting them in the ocean. Help in FW, hurt in salt. I don't think he was a sure why the Chinook were smaller.

Obviously lack of food; now to figure the cause(s). Then, to actually do something about it.

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#976490 - 04/24/17 08:00 AM Re: 2017 NOF Puget Sound results [Re: Sky-Guy]
eyeFISH Offline
Ornamental Rice Bowl

Registered: 11/24/03
Posts: 12766
_________________________
"Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." (Zane Grey)

"If you don't kill them, they will spawn." (Carcassman)


The Keen Eye MD
Long Live the Kings!

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#976492 - 04/24/17 08:20 AM Re: 2017 NOF Puget Sound results [Re: Sky-Guy]
Bay wolf Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 10/26/12
Posts: 1075
Loc: Graham, WA
The dizzying numbers of variables that are impacting and contributing to the failure of the salmon stocks will take decades to study, sort, contemplate and debate. All the while, the money in the huge commercial fisheries is relentlessly growing their legislative cronies to insure there will never be any changes in the industrial rape of the resource until a total collapse occurs.

Of course, once the Federal Government steps in and shuts it all down, the very same industrial giants will have worked out bail out deals to get millions of dollars due to failed economic opportunities.

On a more micro view, here in Washington, we are seeing the very same strategy in play. The Tribal and Non-tribal commercial interest have absolutely NO INCENTIVE to manage the fish for renewability and conservation. They want every single last fish NOW because that's a dollar in their pocket that won't be wasted to someone else. After all, after the last fish is caught, they get federal emergency monies for loss of income. Especially the Tribes have already started setting this up by their continued press releases about how the State is doing nothing to save the fish. The hypocrisy of course, is while the Tribes are screaming they are the leaders of conservation, they refuse to lead the way in converting ALL their fisheries to select fishing methods. Something that would be very easy and cost effective especially in the terminal areas.



Edited by Bay wolf (04/24/17 11:56 AM)
_________________________
"Forgiveness is between them and God. My job is to arrange the meeting."

1Sgt U.S. Army (Ret)

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#976500 - 04/24/17 06:13 PM Re: 2017 NOF Puget Sound results [Re: Sky-Guy]
redlodge Offline
Fry

Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 37
Loc: Kirkland
I do not think that the general public has a clue as to what is going on in Wa in regard to the salmon. When push comes to shove on the loss of income for the
natives they are going to have to pay the price. That is why they always push for
the enviroment as the problem. With the archaic tax system in WA it will make
what happened with the car tabs look like a good deal.


Edited by redlodge (04/24/17 06:14 PM)

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#976502 - 04/24/17 07:03 PM Re: 2017 NOF Puget Sound results [Re: redlodge]
Lucky Louie Offline
Carcass

Registered: 11/30/09
Posts: 2286
http://www.historylink.org/File/2629

Tribes can bill the US Gov’t. with whom the agreement was with and where the tribes and bands of Indians hereby cede, relinquish, and convey to the United States all their right, title, and interest in and to the lands and country occupied by them.

Good luck with that.---Trump will send an armada. moose
_________________________
The world will not be destroyed by those that are evil, but by those who watch them without doing anything.- Albert Einstein

No you can’t have my rights---I’m still using them





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#976505 - 04/24/17 07:09 PM Re: 2017 NOF Puget Sound results [Re: Sky-Guy]
Keta Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 03/05/00
Posts: 1092

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#976689 - 04/28/17 06:32 PM Re: 2017 NOF Puget Sound results [Re: Sky-Guy]
Lucky Louie Offline
Carcass

Registered: 11/30/09
Posts: 2286
WDFW FISHING RULE CHANGE
Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife
600 Capitol Way North, Olympia, WA 98501-1091
http://wdfw.wa.gov

April 28, 2017

Puget Sound marine salmon corrections
to the 2016-17 Washington sport fishing pamphlet

Effective Date: May 1 through June 30, 2017.

Species affected: Salmon.

Location and Action:

Tulalip Terminal Area fishery: Both hatchery and wild coho and chinook may be kept as part of the salmon daily limit starting May 26 on Fridays through noon Mondays. Closed June 17.

Area 10: Closed June 1 through June 30.

Area 11: Both hatchery and wild coho may be kept as part of the salmon daily limit starting June 1.

Area 13: Hatchery coho may be kept as part of the daily salmon limit starting May 1.

Year-round fishing piers (Edmonds Fishing Pier, Elliott Bay Fishing Pier at Terminal 86, Seacrest Pier, Waterman Pier, Bremerton Boardwalk, Illahee State Park, Dash Point Dock, Les Davis Pier, Des Moines Pier, Redondo Pier, Point Defiance Boathouse Dock and Fox Island Public Fishing Pier): Both hatchery and wild coho may be kept as part of the daily salmon limit starting May 1.

Reason for action: This emergency rule modifies fisheries listed in the 2016-17 Washington Sport Fishing Rules regulation pamphlet (July 2016-June 2017) to ensure compliance with the recent co-manager agreements during North of Falcon, the annual salmon season setting process.

Other information: Check the sport fishing rules page for more information on fisheries through June 30, 2017: http://wdfw.wa.gov/fishing/regulations/.

The 2017-18 Washington Sport Fishing Rules regulation pamphlet (July 2017-June 2018) will be available online and at vendors by early June. Check the North of Falcon page for more details on the 2017-18 salmon seasons: http://wdfw.wa.gov/fishing/northfalcon/.

Information contact: Ryan Lothrop, (360) 902-2808, or Mark Baltzell, (360) 902-2807.


Edited by Lucky Louie (04/28/17 06:38 PM)
_________________________
The world will not be destroyed by those that are evil, but by those who watch them without doing anything.- Albert Einstein

No you can’t have my rights---I’m still using them





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