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#976854 - 05/09/17 06:54 AM Re: Tribal police boats? [Re: Doug Kelly]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Originally Posted By: Doug Kelly
Sorry didn't make it very clear, would the money go to the tribe or would it go to the state? if your not on the res how could the tribe site you and expect to collect the money, i dont believe they can try a nontribal member in there courts, why would our state allow tribal police to cite nontribal members and expect to collect,


The first part would seem easy to answer. If one receives a citation written by a tribal officer and that recipient decides to simply pay up then my guess is that the money goes to the tribe.

Beyond that simple scenario it gets really murky to me. To the best of my limited knowledge the state law which allows tribal cops to become general state law enforcement officers does not involve court systems.
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#976859 - 05/09/17 09:22 AM Re: Tribal police boats? [Re: AP a.k.a. Kaiser D]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7413
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
I believe that IF the Tribal LE has received the authority to enforce against non-tribal folks that they will be enforcing non-tribal law. Say you are speeding and they catch you. Citation would be to the state system. Same when WDFW, who has now broad authority, busts you for DWI. Goes into the normal system.

As with any citation, avoid paying at your risk.

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#976861 - 05/09/17 12:13 PM Re: Tribal police boats? [Re: Carcassman]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Originally Posted By: Carcassman
I believe that IF the Tribal LE has received the authority to enforce against non-tribal folks that they will be enforcing non-tribal law. Say you are speeding and they catch you. Citation would be to the state system. Same when WDFW, who has now broad authority, busts you for DWI. Goes into the normal system.

As with any citation, avoid paying at your risk.


And that is a pretty reasonable assessment if the tribal cop is enforcing State law.

The first rub is how does one determine that said tribal cop also has general WA peace officer authority under an agreement with the County?

And, secondly, what is the legal process if one is ticketed by a tribal cop who is also a WA general peace officer for a tribal infraction and the recipient wants to fight the ticket in court? Tribal court??
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

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#976862 - 05/09/17 12:21 PM Re: Tribal police boats? [Re: AP a.k.a. Kaiser D]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7413
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
Legal advice would be a good thing to get. Except for that recent law on domestic violence on rez I am pretty sure that Tribal regulations apply only to tribal members.

My non-attorney guess is that if a Tribal Officer has the authority through agreements to cite you for a violation of state law, the citation will go to state court.

If they don't have the authority, or may wish to make things "cleaner", they can call in a local PD/sheriff/WDFW and have them do the citing.

About now would be a good time for some lurking WDFW officer or other Peace Officer to weigh in with facts.

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#976868 - 05/09/17 02:58 PM Re: Tribal police boats? [Re: Carcassman]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Originally Posted By: Carcassman
Legal advice would be a good thing to get. Except for that recent law on domestic violence on rez I am pretty sure that Tribal regulations apply only to tribal members.

My non-attorney guess is that if a Tribal Officer has the authority through agreements to cite you for a violation of state law, the citation will go to state court.

If they don't have the authority, or may wish to make things "cleaner", they can call in a local PD/sheriff/WDFW and have them do the citing.

About now would be a good time for some lurking WDFW officer or other Peace Officer to weigh in with facts.


If they don't have jurisdiction I question their authority to hold you until local LE arrives. That was the crux of the Brinnon fiasco; the two tribal cops were well off their rez and took it upon themselves to take two hunters into custody at gunpoint along with a small child and keep the adults handcuffed for hours. Frankly, those tribal cops should have gone to jail on a multitude of charges but neither the County prosecutor nor the State to include WDFW (illegal to interrupt a legal hunt) had what it takes to protect its citizens.
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

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#976874 - 05/09/17 07:42 PM Re: Tribal police boats? [Re: AP a.k.a. Kaiser D]
Doug Kelly Offline
Spawner

Registered: 02/22/00
Posts: 752
Loc: Bothell WA
After calling State Patrol, the trooper stated that all the tribal police have been comminisoned and hold the same authority as a regular officer, he stated if you were driving down I-5 speeding he could pull you over and cite you but would be addressed in the county you were cited in not tribal,

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#976875 - 05/09/17 07:46 PM Re: Tribal police boats? [Re: AP a.k.a. Kaiser D]
Doug Kelly Offline
Spawner

Registered: 02/22/00
Posts: 752
Loc: Bothell WA
After calling State Patrol, the trooper stated that all the tribal police have been comminisoned and hold the same authority as a regular officer, he stated if you were driving down I-5 speeding he could pull you over and cite you but would be addressed in the county you were cited in not tribal,

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#976876 - 05/09/17 07:52 PM Re: Tribal police boats? [Re: Doug Kelly]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Originally Posted By: Doug Kelly
After calling State Patrol, the trooper stated that all the tribal police have been comminisoned and hold the same authority as a regular officer, he stated if you were driving down I-5 speeding he could pull you over and cite you but would be addressed in the county you were cited in not tribal,


Interesting info if what they gave you is accurate.
_________________________
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It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

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#976877 - 05/09/17 08:08 PM Re: Tribal police boats? [Re: AP a.k.a. Kaiser D]
Doug Kelly Offline
Spawner

Registered: 02/22/00
Posts: 752
Loc: Bothell WA
The Trooper also mentioned if you wanted questions answered to call the Nisqually tribe, in his opinion, he stated they have one of the best tribal non tribal relationships in the state of Washington, when it comes to fish & wildlife enforcement,

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#976883 - 05/09/17 09:34 PM Re: Tribal police boats? [Re: Doug Kelly]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Originally Posted By: Doug Kelly
The Trooper also mentioned if you wanted questions answered to call the Nisqually tribe, in his opinion, he stated they have one of the best tribal non tribal relationships in the state of Washington, when it comes to fish & wildlife enforcement,


And this was in what alternate universe??
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

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#976892 - 05/10/17 06:44 AM Re: Tribal police boats? [Re: AP a.k.a. Kaiser D]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7413
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
He didn't say it was good, he said it was the best in WA. With much that is done with natural resources in WA the bar is either close to the ground, one the ground, or even buried. So, "best" is relative.

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#976894 - 05/10/17 08:16 AM Re: Tribal police boats? [Re: Carcassman]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Originally Posted By: Carcassman
He didn't say it was good, he said it was the best in WA. With much that is done with natural resources in WA the bar is either close to the ground, one the ground, or even buried. So, "best" is relative.


Well, there is that perspective. Can't disagree. Note that the Nisqually tribe is one which refuses to negotiate and enforce crab harvest numbers within their U&A.
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

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#976903 - 05/10/17 10:30 AM Re: Tribal police boats? [Re: AP a.k.a. Kaiser D]
spokey9 Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 05/30/02
Posts: 211
Loc: Ravenden, AR
I'd demand a state trooper if I was pulled over off res by tribal cops. If their stance that they are a sovereign Nation when it comes to negotiations, then as far as I'm concerned their police have no jurisdiction off that "nation's" land. I would consider it a violation of my rights to have them hold or cite and I'd challenge it as such in court. I might lose but i wouldn't just accept their law enforcement rights off res.
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#976927 - 05/11/17 10:35 AM Re: Tribal police boats? [Re: AP a.k.a. Kaiser D]
RowVsWade Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/08/06
Posts: 3405
Loc: Island Time
Unless I was on tribal land and thus subject to their laws I'd stop just long enough to ascertain that they were tribal police at which point I'd tell them to KMA and break contact. I'm not subject to the laws of a sovereign nation in my country. F'ck them and the horse they rode in on.
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#976928 - 05/11/17 11:13 AM Re: Tribal police boats? [Re: AP a.k.a. Kaiser D]
5 * General Evo Offline
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#976934 - 05/11/17 05:26 PM Re: Tribal police boats? [Re: Larry B]
Old Guide Offline
Parr

Registered: 12/26/09
Posts: 46
What you have to remember if stopped by tribal police is that IF they are acting with a Sheriff's Commission, they are acting as the County Sheriff, not as a tribal officer. So they would have jurisdiction within the county IF the respective sheriffs choose to give them that authority, and I doubt that many would. Sheriffs, and Chiefs of Police for that matter, want CONTROL over those that represent them. How do you discipline a tribal officer if not under your command/control? Years ago the Nisqually tribal police proposed the State Department of Fisheries commission their officers so that they could enforce state laws on their U&A against non Indians. Fisheries countered with something like "Great idea, and you can commission our Fisheries Officers with your authority so we can come onto the reservation and enforce our laws." The tribe declined to give up any of its soveriegnity (sp?). I don't think tribal police officers have any authority over non Indians unless it is granted by local law enforcement - and the tribal officer better have really good I.D. if he stops a non Indian. Just my opinion, but I'm somewhat informed on this issue.

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#976935 - 05/11/17 06:07 PM Re: Tribal police boats? [Re: AP a.k.a. Kaiser D]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7413
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
It is necessary for the State to CLEARLY let folks know which tribes have authority over non-tribal members. If they have authority and you blow them off they that would be flight to avoid prosecution which might be a bigger thing than whatever they stopped you for.

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#976936 - 05/11/17 06:38 PM Re: Tribal police boats? [Re: AP a.k.a. Kaiser D]
RowVsWade Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/08/06
Posts: 3405
Loc: Island Time
As a US citizen we have oversight and control of our law enforcement, especially county sheriff. They are beholden and answer to us in theory. Some Mickey Mouse tribal pig doesn't. I won't have to worry about dealing with a tribal cop with a grudge against whitey in this state but if I did I wouldn't recognize their tribal authority and I'd make it a federal case if need be. I don't give a rats ass if the sheriff anoints them by decree because that ain't how it works in America and an unlawful order is still unlawful.

Besides most tribal cops are too busy stealing kicker motors and crab pots to worry about upholding the law. If there's reciprocity then our cops can go onto the Rez and enforce our RCW's. I'll bet that'd go over about as well as a fart in church.
_________________________
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If you don't like our prices bring your wife down and we'll dicker.

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