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#987849 - 04/10/18 03:08 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET *** [Re: eyeFISH]
Krijack Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 06/03/06
Posts: 1515
Loc: Tacoma
It can go both ways, however, which is something we need to push for too. I know a Makah tribal fisher very well. He told me one time that many in the tribe felt they had a right to attempt to harvest 50% of any fish that passed them. I don't think they really cared how that affected anyone else. I think the state needs to hold fast that they don't give a rip which tribe takes the fish, as long as the 50/50 holds true. Any agreement should be clear that if any side goes over, adjustments down the line. It seems to me that we usually see set fisheries for the tribes, and adjustable ones for us.

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#987851 - 04/10/18 03:35 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
bob r Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 04/17/13
Posts: 281
A few years ago I seem to recall that the Makah tribe over-harvested blackmouth salmon by more then 3000 fish, when called on it the position was that there must have been a run that exceeded far above what was projected because "we caught that many". Harvest for the rec community was cut drastically, I believe that adjustments were agreed to for upcoming years,but never actualized. Big surprise! Bob R

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#987854 - 04/10/18 03:54 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: bob r]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3014
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Originally Posted By: bob r
A few years ago I seem to recall that the Makah tribe over-harvested blackmouth salmon by more then 3000 fish, when called on it the position was that there must have been a run that exceeded far above what was projected because "we caught that many". Harvest for the rec community was cut drastically, I believe that adjustments were agreed to for upcoming years,but never actualized. Big surprise! Bob R


My memory may be a bit hazy but as I recall there (according to WDFW) wasn't a hard number for them to fish to at the time. Another issue was that WDFW was receiving the fish tickets but for whatever reason never hit the alarm button. Finally, I do not recall that there was ever a "pay back" agreed to let alone put into effect.

Guess who got the very short end of the stick on that deal?
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

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#987858 - 04/10/18 04:38 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
Carcassman Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7440
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
It was obvious to WDF that the Makah could take all of the Treaty Share of a stock. We were actually asked by Tribe A to shut down Tribe B because B was corking them and letting nothing up the river. The State couldn't and wouldn't do that. It is an inter-tribal allocation issue that WDFW needs to stay out of.

I suspect, though, that WDFW is willing to "accommodate" overages by some tribes, as was seen with the Makah troll. If it had been the NI recs that over harvested there would have been screaming and yelling to cut back their fisheries. Rather than crickets.

And, Larry is right. WDFW had the tickets in a timely manner but other priorities prevented their being entered into they system or reviewed.

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#987860 - 04/10/18 04:48 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
Carcassman Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7440
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
To piggy back on Todd's recent comment, there seems to be a lot of trouble grasping the concept that sharing covers all WA fisheries.

When the first US-Canada Treaty was signed the PS Tribes were threatening what was called the "All-Citizen" suit. In it, catch in ALL US fisheries would count which means the AK fisheries might not only take all the NI share but might cut into the Indian Share. In that case, AK would have to be responsive to the needs of WA. They, as I recall, were refusing to support the Treaty unless the suit was dropped.

If memory serves, the suit was not fully dropped but the Tribes agreed to hold off if WA gave them full Co-Management authority. Bill Wilkerson thought it was a good idea.

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#987864 - 04/10/18 07:54 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: Carcassman]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3014
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Originally Posted By: Carcassman

And, Larry is right. WDFW had the tickets in a timely manner but other priorities prevented their being entered into they system or reviewed.


That was an acute embarrassment for WDFW calling into question the integrity of the entire reporting process. Implausible deniability???

Or the three monkeys; Hear, See and Speak no evil. And we, the NI side of co-management, had to cut back our fisheries.
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

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#987869 - 04/10/18 09:21 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
Carcassman Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7440
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
Part of the foundation of Co-Management is that you manage yours and we manage ours. Before that, the State had (though Boldt) clear conservation responsibility. Now...........

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#987874 - 04/11/18 10:57 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4399
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
For GH and have requested translation.

The Area 2-2 Humptulips North Bay chinook fishery begins in August and runs through Sept.15.

The Area 2-2 East Bay coho fishery begins two weeks later than 2017 and is scheduled Oct. 1-Nov. 30.

The Chehalis River spring chinook fishery is scheduled May 1-June 30 while the jack fishery in the lower river runs Aug. 1-Sept. 15.

The Humptulips River is scheduled to be open for salmon fishing Sept. 1-Nov. 30, about two months fewer than last year. Anglers can keep one wild chinook during the month of September but must release wild chinook the remainder of the fishery.


Willapa Bay Area

The season in Willapa Bay (Area 2-1) is similar to last year and is scheduled Aug. 1-Jan. 31. Anglers can keep three adult salmon, one of which may be a coho.
The freshwater rivers in the Willapa Bay area have similar seasons to 2017. Anglers may retain one wild coho.


Edited by Rivrguy (04/11/18 10:58 AM)
_________________________
Dazed and confused.............the fog is closing in

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#987875 - 04/11/18 11:20 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: Rivrguy]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4399
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
_________________________
Dazed and confused.............the fog is closing in

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#987886 - 04/11/18 02:28 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
DrifterWA Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 04/25/00
Posts: 4978
Loc: East of Aberdeen, West of Mont...
If you fish Grays Harbor and want to know the fishing seasons before the 2018-19 Pamphlet comes out...


FYI – There will be a public meeting to review the 2018 Salmon Sport Fishing proposals for Grays Harbor on Tuesday April 17, 2018 at the Montesano City Hall from 6 pm to 8 pm. This meeting was originally scheduled to take place at the Region 6 Office in Montesano, but was changed to the Montesano City Hall to accommodate more people.


Edited by DrifterWA (04/11/18 02:32 PM)
_________________________
"Worse day sport fishing, still better than the best day working"

"I thought growing older, would take longer"

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#988503 - 04/29/18 09:36 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: DrifterWA]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4399
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
Some folks are questioning the seasons for 2018 this fall. The dates are up in another thread so you have that part. As to rational PM me and I will forward the e mail sent by Chad for R-6 staff on the reasons they ended up where they did. If you did not receive it then you are flying blind but ask and you shall receive! The e mail is from R-6 and is rather forthright explanation of this falls salmon season. Staff stumbled at the start of NOF due to the confusion on ocean numbers and not being willing to turn loose the model. Midway with the public meetings they failed miserably but they pulled it together and finished strong. No BS just the ugly truth straight at ya. That is acceptable always even if one views the outcome differently simply because folks no matter what staff does someone will be upset with something. Coming right at us with the unvarnished truth makes some upset but someone will be upset no matter what. So they sucked it up and came right at us. Give them credit folks because that is not a easy thing for any agency staff to do let alone WDF&W.

Now you East County folks. Look down to the graph and zero in and the % of catch by week. It is October that is the greatest impact which can limit the front and back of the season. Reduce October by time limitations ( days ) or catch and you can extend the season front and back sides. Now this would adversely effect the those from outside the area the most & benefit the local residents the most. So here is the rub guys. If you do not attend the meetings then the views of folks who do will be front and center. This is a squeaky wheels gets fish thing so if you do not put in the time you have no bitch. Whatever your thoughts there needs to be a lot more inland butts setting in chairs next year or don't bitch.

Anyhow I give credit for staff for taking US head on and being forthright. From my chair it is the best way to go.




From R=6:

Hello Everyone,

During the last North of Falcon meeting on April 17th, the Department released its proposal for salmon fisheries occurring within the Grays Harbor Basin for 2018. During this meeting we received some input from the public to re-evaluate the proposed season for freshwater fisheries. Specifically, took assess the two adult bag limit and season duration in order to possibly extend the salmon season into December. Also, the Fish and Wildlife Commission has received some e-mails regarding this topic. Regional staff conducted an analysis of the proposed Grays Harbor season for 2018 and drafted a response. What follows below is the agency’s response to those commission e-mails and a synopsis of the analyses results.

First, let me say, thank you for your interest and attendance of our Grays Harbor North of Falcon (NOF) salmon season setting process. It is important for the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW) to get representation and input from all user groups in regards to the shape and scope of salmon seasons within our management and conservation objectives for the upcoming 2018 season. As the Department considers a proposal for this year’s salmon seasons in Grays Harbor there are some documents that guide and/or provide management and conservation objectives within any given year. These documents include, but are not limited to, U.S v. Washington (commonly referred to as the Boldt Decision), the Pacific Salmon Treaty, and the Washington Fish and Wildlife Commission’s Grays Harbor Basin Salmon Management Policy (C-3621). These documents, treaties, and federal court orders lay the foundation for which salmon seasons prosecuted in Grays Harbor are to be structured.
In regards to your request to evaluate reductions in bag limits in order to prolong Coho directed freshwater fisheries within the Grays Harbor Basin, the most constraining management objective for fisheries planning in 2018 is a 20% total exploitation rate (TER) cap required for Grays Harbor Wild Coho under the Pacific Salmon Treaty (PST). The PST designates specific coastal stocks as indicator stocks in order to reflect the health and sustainability of coastal Coho stocks in total. Grays Harbor Coho as well as, Quillayute Coho, Hoh Coho, and Queets Coho are all identified as indicator stocks in the treaty. For Grays Harbor Coho, the forecasted ocean escapement of ~42,000 is roughly 16% above the spawning escapement objective of 35,400. At this level Grays Harbor Coho fall into the “low” abundance category, which limits the TER to 20% through all fisheries, from southeast Alaska to California.
As part of the NOF salmon season setting process for fisheries in Grays Harbor, the WDFW hosted several open public meetings prior to the April meetings of the Pacific Fishery Management Council (PFMC), these are presented in Table 1 (below). The purpose of these meetings were to gather input and fishery suggestions from the advisory group and members of the public in order to craft a fishery package that met management and conservation objectives. An additional advisory meeting after the April PFMC meeting was scheduled to provide Grays Harbor advisors and the public with the proposed fishery package for Grays Harbor in 2018 (Table 1). A full meeting schedule was available on the agency website and this information was sent via e-mail to advisors and interested parties. All meeting handouts as well as audio recordings of all meetings are available on the agency’s website; https://wdfw.wa.gov/fishing/commercial/salmon/season_setting.html .
Table 1: Advisory and Public meeting schedule for Grays Harbor Salmon Fisheries in 2018.
Meeting Type Date Location Time
Forecast meeting - Public February 26 Montesano City Hall 6 pm – 8pm
Advisory Group meeting March 19 Montesano Regional Office 6 pm – 8pm
Public meeting March 27 Montesano City Hall 6 pm – 8pm
Advisory Group meeting April 4 Montesano Regional Office 6 pm – 8pm
PFMC April 6 - 11 Portland Sheraton Hotel NA
Advisory Group meeting April 17 Montesano City Hall 6 pm – 8pm

During the advisory group meeting held on April 4, department staff informed those in attendance that the current fishery package as modeled showed a 22.5% TER for Grays Harbor Wild Coho and that further shaping would be necessary. Also preliminary modeling showed that simply reducing bag limits would not enable us to reach the objective and that shortened seasons would more than likely be required. The remainder of the meeting was utilized to take suggestions on how to shape the fishery package in order to meet this objective, these included:
- closing the commercial fishery to preserve wild Coho impacts for recreational fisheries;
- shaping all sectors fisheries to proportionally reduce impacts to wild Coho;
- closing freshwater recreational fisheries in a step-wise manner working backwards from the traditional closing date until the objective is met;
- closing freshwater recreational fisheries in systems without hatchery production;
- take actions necessary to keep freshwater recreational fisheries open until December 15.
The Washington Fish and Wildlife Commission’s policy on Grays Harbor Basin Salmon Management (C-3621) provides the Department with guidance as to what factors should be considered when setting salmon seasons. As a general policy statement, the policy directs fishery managers to focus commercial and recreational fisheries on the harvest of abundant hatchery fish while minimizing the impacts on wild stocks. Guiding Principle #7 specifically states, “In a manner consistent with conservation objectives, fishing opportunities will be fairly distributed across fishing areas and reflect the diverse interests of WDFW-managed fishers”. Given our policy guidance along with input received through the NOF process, all fisheries were reduced proportional to their impact to wild Coho in order to meet the 20% TER objective in the Pacific Salmon Treaty. This approach resulted in the reduction of recreation salmon fishing opportunity in Marine Area 2-2 of one week in the month of September. Commercial fisheries opportunity was reduced in the final week of October. Lastly, freshwater recreational fishing opportunity for salmon during the months of December and January was removed. Proportionally freshwater recreational salmon fisheries make up 49.5% of the total impact to Grays Harbor wild Coho. Even with the reductions in the proposed fishery package mentioned above the resulting modeled TER for Grays Harbor wild Coho was estimated to be 20.7%.
During the April 17 NOF meeting, WDFW received comment that the fishery package should be re-evaluated to possibly extend or shift the freshwater recreational season to provide some salmon fishing opportunity in December. While there was not consensus among recreational interests supporting such a change, the WDFW felt it was important to review of the package in order to have a fully informed assessment supporting our decision making process. To that end, WDFW evaluated shifting the current proposed freshwater salmon season for October 1 through November 30 to October 16 through December 15. The model evaluation showed that this approach could essentially be impact neutral in regards to wild Coho. Further evaluation of total Coho harvest under this “shifting of the season” approach would result in the reduction of harvest of hatchery Coho by 278 fish; this would represent a harvest reduction of 7.1% of the total freshwater Coho harvest. Another suggestion provided at the April 17 meeting was reduce the bag limit during freshwater salmon season from a two fish adult bag limit to a one fish adult bag limit in order to extend freshwater recreational salmon opportunity into the month of December. Similar to the open-dates change, our analysis of the reduction in bag limit would reduce the total harvest of hatchery Coho and would further reduce total impact to wild Coho by approximately 30 fish. Catch Record Card (CRC) data indicates that 78% of the total Coho harvest occurs within the October to November period (Figure 1). Conversely, only 6% of the total Coho harvest takes place during the first two weeks of December.
Figure 1. Percentage of Grays Harbor Coho harvest using CRC data for the years 2002 through 2016.

It is also worth noting that regional WDFW staff have received comments during and after the April 7th advisory meeting from recreational fishers that they would not be in support of reducing the bag limit in order to extend salmon fishing opportunity within the Grays Harbor Basin. After careful consideration of the input received, Commission policy on salmon management in the Grays Harbor Basin, conservation objectives, and the additional analysis summarized above, the WDFW intends complete the rule-making process to implement the season described during the April 17 meeting; see season detail below.

MARINE AREA 2.2
Humptulips North Bay Fishery: August 1 – September 15, daily limit 2 (combined), Release wild Coho
East Grays Harbor Fishery: October 1 – November 30, daily limit 1, release Chinook
FRESHWATER
Lower Chehalis River (mouth to Hwy 107 Bridge): October 1 – November 30, daily limit 6 only 1 adult may be retained, release adult Chinook
Chehalis River and Tributaries: October 1 – November 30, daily limit 6 only 2 adults may be retained, release adult Chinook and adult wild Coho
Humptulips River: September 1 – September 30, daily limit 6 up to 2 adults may be retained of which only 1 may be a wild Chinook, release wild Coho
Humptulips River: October 1 – November 30, daily limit 6 only 1 adult may be retained, release wild adult Chinook and wild Coho
SPRING CHINOOK
Chehalis River (to Hwy 6 Bridge near the town of Adna): May 1 – June 30, daily limit 1 adult
JACK FISHERY
Chehalis River (to South Elma Bridge): August 1 – September 15, daily limit 6, release adults

Feel free to contact me with any questions or concerns.
Thanks,
Chad Herring
Anadromous Policy Analyst – South Coast (acting)
Montesano Regional Headquarters
48 Devonshire Rd
Montesano WA, 98563
_________________________
Dazed and confused.............the fog is closing in

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#990101 - 06/07/18 09:45 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: Rivrguy]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4399
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope

This was forwarded to me and Larry was speaking to more than the individual who was the lead in the exchange. Bottom line I think Larry would be OK with the information being circulated.

B--- and others,

Sorry it has taken me this long to get back to you but I wanted to provide you with the most recent developments. As of today we have a meeting scheduled for next week to develop/discuss the spending proposal with the Co-managers. Dir Stohr (acting) has also been in contact with Quinault Nation President Fawn Sharp who indicated to him that they would like a resolution to this issue soon. For these reasons we are cautiously optimistic that we will reach an agreement regarding the use of these funds soon. Ron and I understand that folks are frustrated but ask that you give us a bit more time to work on a solution as it seems like we are making progress.

As for 7400, we have been in discussions with Green Diamond since access was closed a few years ago. We have reached an agreement on an alternative access point a few hundred yards downs stream from the old access. Currently we are in the final stages of permitting and (fingers crossed) are hopeful that we will be moving dirt soon. Again, a long time in coming but we are confident that we are very close to having something concrete to share with the sport fishing community.

We will be sure to reach back out with an update following the upcoming meetings.

Sincerely,

Larry Phillips
Region 6 Director
WDFW, Montesano

360-870-1889
_________________________
Dazed and confused.............the fog is closing in

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#990104 - 06/07/18 03:06 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: Rivrguy]
slabhunter Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 01/17/04
Posts: 3728
Loc: Sheltona Beach
Am i the only one to take offense to the moving dirt comment? Hasn't this been the problem in the riparian zone?
_________________________
When we are forgotten, we cease to exist .
Share your outdoor skills.

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#990141 - 06/08/18 02:52 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: slabhunter]
fish4brains Offline
Dah Rivah Stinkah Pink Mastah

Registered: 08/23/06
Posts: 6193
Loc: zipper
Originally Posted By: slabhunter
Am i the only one to take offense to the moving dirt comment? Hasn't this been the problem in the riparian zone?


I think you're the only one.
_________________________
...
Propping up an obsolete fishing industry at the expense of sound fisheries management is irresponsible. -Sg



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#990142 - 06/08/18 03:19 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: slabhunter]
Eric Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 3426
Originally Posted By: slabhunter
Am i the only one to take offense to the moving dirt comment? Hasn't this been the problem in the riparian zone?



There will be no more dirt moved than has occurred naturally over thousands of years as the river wanders back and forth in it's floodplain. In fact, existing roads and gravel bars should make this task an easy one.

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#990143 - 06/08/18 04:29 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
DrifterWA Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 04/25/00
Posts: 4978
Loc: East of Aberdeen, West of Mont...
I just hope parking doesn't get to be a problem?????? Not so much at the 7400 line area BUT THE WHITE BRIDGE AREA....

I can see during some weekends.....jammed parking at White Bridge.....Jet boat guides, drift boat guides and rec. drift boat and jet boat persons. parking at White Bridge....THEN turn around rigs or the return service bringing rigs back from 7400 Line, are going to park where??????

WDFW just hasn't done what it should have been doing over the years...acquire additional parking not only at White Bridge but also Black Creek......pressure is only going to increase in the future.....


Edited by DrifterWA (06/08/18 04:30 PM)
_________________________
"Worse day sport fishing, still better than the best day working"

"I thought growing older, would take longer"

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#990144 - 06/08/18 04:41 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
Carcassman Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7440
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
Wonder what ever happened to Bob Watson's old program to acquire land, access, easements, and such. And, before that there was an effort by many to acquire access for steel heading on a lot of streams. Wonder why those programs (apparently) died.

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#990147 - 06/08/18 05:14 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
eswan Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 01/19/14
Posts: 169
Parking will be an issue. It's been bad enough when 7400 has been closed. There's more than enough real estate to add room for parking to the white bridge launch. I am still excited for this launch to open. I avoid the wynoochee due to crowds in the winter so no sweat off my back.

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#990148 - 06/08/18 05:41 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: Carcassman]
DrifterWA Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 04/25/00
Posts: 4978
Loc: East of Aberdeen, West of Mont...
Originally Posted By: Carcassman
Wonder what ever happened to Bob Watson's old program to acquire land, access, easements, and such. And, before that there was an effort by many to acquire access for steel heading on a lot of streams. Wonder why those programs (apparently) died.


Good question.....would take work to contact land owners but I really think that "many land owners would just as soon not have anyone on their property or even going by, summer, winter, fall. The trash that is left on some of my local rivers, all times of the year.

I offered to take Region 6 Director Larry Phillips on a ride from tide water to the 7400 area, just to show him the places that now have no access, where there was "lots", in the late 60's, 70's, 80's...….thats when WDFW should have been getting 99 year leases on all the local rivers. At this time I've not had any contact on this request by me.
_________________________
"Worse day sport fishing, still better than the best day working"

"I thought growing older, would take longer"

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#990244 - 06/12/18 02:48 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
Carcassman Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7440
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
It seems to me that WDFW is in favor of boat-oriented fishing. Period. Some of that is obviously the land ownership in the state and where the "important" fish (salmon, steelhead, etc.) occur. But what fisheries does WDFW push that are shore-based? Very few, if any.

We have some pretty good fisheries but you need a boat. So, the idea that the agency needs to work at access is not even on the radar.

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