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#977424 - 06/05/17 09:49 PM Crab pots in MA. 9 10 & 11
Bank Bum Offline
Fry

Registered: 02/17/09
Posts: 33
Loc: Kitsap County
Ran out last week on Thursday helping a friend out with his new motor. Spotted over 60 crab buoys in our short run. Are these commercials or tribal ? Thanks.

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#977426 - 06/05/17 10:42 PM Re: Crab pots in MA. 9 10 & 11 [Re: Bank Bum]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Pretty sure those would be tribal. The NT commercials were done in February and won't open again until October. Past years I have seen Puyallup crab gear deployed as early as Mother's Day.
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

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#977431 - 06/06/17 08:29 AM Re: Crab pots in MA. 9 10 & 11 [Re: Bank Bum]
Bay wolf Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 10/26/12
Posts: 1075
Loc: Graham, WA
The crab season is set to open when the bios determine the molt is over and the crab have firmed up. Somehow, the Tribal bios determine this a month before the WDFW bios do! Happens every year...after year....after year.

They tell WDFW it's good to go, then fish. WDFW "postpones" our opening so there is no gear conflict, of course, that also means when you drop your pots, all that's left is females. (I was going to add undersized males, but they are disappearing too.)

It almost seems like it's planned that way.....
_________________________
"Forgiveness is between them and God. My job is to arrange the meeting."

1Sgt U.S. Army (Ret)

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#977432 - 06/06/17 08:56 AM Re: Crab pots in MA. 9 10 & 11 [Re: Bank Bum]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Actually, the recreational summer crab season is set to open IAW the current P.S. Crab Mgmt Policy with most MAs opening 1 July and closing after the Labor Day week-end. I don't believe WDFW "postpones" our opener; rather, the tribes take advantage of knowing when our opener is scheduled and hit it hard for a month or more prior to that date. Net effect is the same; a huge decrease in legal crab in the total remaining biomass; we get to work on the left-overs.

If you were to check out the proposed salt water rule changes submitted for consideration last year you will find one which proposed opening the recreational season concurrent with the first tribal pots being put in the water in those MAs where the State's share has historically not been fully harvested during the summer and winter recreational seasona. That and keeping in mind that the NT commercials still harvest more poundage than do recreational crabbers.

Anyway, as with virtually all of the rule change proposals submitted by the public WDFW Staff recommended it not be moved forward for further consideration. In short, death be unto it.
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

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#977441 - 06/06/17 10:43 AM Re: Crab pots in MA. 9 10 & 11 [Re: Bank Bum]
Take-Down Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 02/29/08
Posts: 117
I've found the WDFW Shellfish folks to be extremely responsive--by phone and email--over the years. I've also met with them and can tell that they understand what's going on and have plenty of back-bone. If your crabbing area is not working well, then have a discussion with them, hear what they have to say, and offer your ideas for improvement. This is one of the better functioning parts of WDFW.

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#977442 - 06/06/17 10:44 AM Re: Crab pots in MA. 9 10 & 11 [Re: Bank Bum]
Sky-Guy Offline
The Tide changed

Registered: 08/31/00
Posts: 7232
Loc: Everett
I can confirm there are a lot of Tualip tribal pots in MA 10 right now, they just issued a ***NEW CLOSURE DATE**** notification extending their fishery to June 9
_________________________
You know something bad is going to happen when you hear..."Hey, hold my beer and watch this"

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#977463 - 06/06/17 01:58 PM Re: Crab pots in MA. 9 10 & 11 [Re: Bank Bum]
RogueFanatic Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 07/31/08
Posts: 348
Loc: Kitsap Co.
What Sky-Guy said. The pic is form this Sunday, 4 June in Suquamish. You can see the truck that was used to unload the pots (many, many pots) and the tote used to haul away the crab. Hhhhmmm... I appear to be too dumb to post a pic... so just picture a box truck with a blue tote in it parked next to a stack of crab pots.


Edited by RogueFanatic (06/06/17 04:10 PM)

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#977518 - 06/07/17 08:40 AM Re: Crab pots in MA. 9 10 & 11 [Re: Bank Bum]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Hmmm, just out that MA 12 will open 24 June, MA 11 on 16 June, MA 4 and 5 on 16 June and that portion of MA 9 just north of the Hood Canal bridge will open on 24 June (http://wdfw.wa.gov/fishing/shellfish/crab/).

No info as to why but one might speculate that it is to ensure that non-tribal harvesters have reasonable opportunity to harvest the State's 50% in specific management areas.
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

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#977706 - 06/14/17 04:36 PM Re: Crab pots in MA. 9 10 & 11 [Re: Bank Bum]
Bank Bum Offline
Fry

Registered: 02/17/09
Posts: 33
Loc: Kitsap County
Thanks for all the replys. I did get a chance last week, Thursday to talk with 2 different tribal boats, while they were making pulls. out of 3 pots we watched them pull in MA 10, 1 keeper. They told us its been THERE worst year crabbing in most areas ever & that's why there season was extended for a week. Crabbing is looking pretty poor this year for us in the PS. But Iam gonna give it a shot, good luck to you all.

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#977707 - 06/14/17 05:02 PM Re: Crab pots in MA. 9 10 & 11 [Re: Bank Bum]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Originally Posted By: Bank Bum
Thanks for all the replys. I did get a chance last week, Thursday to talk with 2 different tribal boats, while they were making pulls. out of 3 pots we watched them pull in MA 10, 1 keeper. They told us its been THERE worst year crabbing in most areas ever & that's why there season was extended for a week. Crabbing is looking pretty poor this year for us in the PS. But Iam gonna give it a shot, good luck to you all.


On a macro scale there is the simple question of WHY? Historically crab populations have fluctuated so is what we are experiencing (starting in MA 13 and south MA 12) a natural phenomenon?

A more immediate issue is one of equity. By virtue of the tribal crabbers not catching their half because there are fewer crab available than anticipated does that mean there will be less than half of the harvestable crab available for the State (meaning you and me) when our season opens? I will opine that is exactly what is occurring and will exacerbate the adverse impact of low numbers for State crabbers.

So, was there a failure to properly assess harvestable crab biomass?

Did the State do its own assessments in all MAs? Not to be overly conspiratorial but if the Tribes are doing assessments and find a low biomass it might be in their best interests to overstate the numbers thereby achieving an inappropriately high target half during negotiations with the State. Then when their crabbers aren't harvesting to that number the answer is to extend their fisheries - rather than enter into negotiations with the State to reduce the total allowable harvest. And, of course, that leaves the State with far less than half of the actual harvestable biomass.

I am not saying that this is happening but I am saying that the current system whereby tribal crabbers access the resource first is (1) unfair and (2) open to abuse especially if the agreed upon harvestable numbers are determined solely by the individual tribes.
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

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#977710 - 06/14/17 06:26 PM Re: Crab pots in MA. 9 10 & 11 [Re: Bank Bum]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7413
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
This demonstrates the problem of fishing on forecasts and not evaluating as the season progresses. It rewards first in line and punishes the second.

This was the push of Hoh v. Baldridge where the non-Indian ocean fishery took the harvestable and left the tribe with zip.

If you are going to insist of using a forecast and sticking to it, the both sides should harvest at the same "rate" so that nobody falls behind. That is, if equity is a concern.

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#977712 - 06/14/17 07:59 PM Re: Crab pots in MA. 9 10 & 11 [Re: Bank Bum]
Bay wolf Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 10/26/12
Posts: 1075
Loc: Graham, WA
It's not only crab that the state relies on the tribes assessment (forecasts).....
_________________________
"Forgiveness is between them and God. My job is to arrange the meeting."

1Sgt U.S. Army (Ret)

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#977713 - 06/14/17 08:09 PM Re: Crab pots in MA. 9 10 & 11 [Re: Bank Bum]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7413
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
They have to "agree" on a forecast before they can fish. Large pressure to agree.

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#977714 - 06/14/17 10:11 PM Re: Crab pots in MA. 9 10 & 11 [Re: Carcassman]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Originally Posted By: Carcassman
They have to "agree" on a forecast before they can fish. Large pressure to agree.


Unfortunately, that is not always the case. I know for a fact that the Nisqually tribe has not agreed to a crab harvest number for at least the two most recent seasons and probably not for this season. And for the two seasons before they quit agreeing they simply had a horrendous catch reporting system and exceeded their agreed upon number by 3X then 2X and then quit agreeing to any number. Can't be criticized for overharvesting when you haven't agreed to a number.
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

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#977718 - 06/15/17 07:28 AM Re: Crab pots in MA. 9 10 & 11 [Re: Bank Bum]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7413
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
But, obviously, WDFW accepts their tactic. If you don't say "no" then have you said "yes"?

If what you say about Nisqually is true, then hasn't WDFW simply abdicated responsible management?

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#977719 - 06/15/17 07:51 AM Re: Crab pots in MA. 9 10 & 11 [Re: Carcassman]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Originally Posted By: Carcassman
But, obviously, WDFW accepts their tactic. If you don't say "no" then have you said "yes"?

If what you say about Nisqually is true, then hasn't WDFW simply abdicated responsible management?


One might ask how one "abdicates" management absent having the authority over all controllable factors.

Now, as to WDFW accepting the overall tactic of tribal fishers effectively corking the recreational crabbers I agree with you but will say that over the past several years to include 2017 there have been "early" openers for the recs in several MAs. While the related WDFW News Releases have been cryptic it is clear to me that those early openers have been to provide recs with some opportunity before all legal crab have been removed.

If you look at the rule change proposals submitted last year (when open for salt water rule changes - now every third year) for the 2017/2018 season there were several that addressed crab seasons to include one calling for rec openers to occur by emergency reg concurrent with the first tribal pot going in the water. It got absolutely no traction although the then Shellfish Manager who presumably quashed that proposal has subsequently left the Department.

But with the three year cycle for rule change proposals the next opportunity will be for the 2020/2021 season. Not very responsive to the stakeholders.....
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

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#977721 - 06/15/17 09:17 AM Re: Crab pots in MA. 9 10 & 11 [Re: Bank Bum]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7413
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
If management requires agreement, which it does, then allowing tribal action is agreeing. There are court orders outlining how seasons are to be set and prosecuted. These have, at least in the past, included timetables. Obviously, the parties can agree to do something different.

Ultimately, the solution may need to be the Courts. That would take money and huevos. Lacking both, we maintain current practices.

Authority is interesting. Boldt mandated that the State had conservation authority. This was given away when Co-Management, begun at Pt Ludlow, was developed.

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#977722 - 06/15/17 09:45 AM Re: Crab pots in MA. 9 10 & 11 [Re: Bank Bum]
RUNnGUN Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 1382
If numbers are down this year in MA 11 that would be the third year in a row numbers suck. I didn't even try 11 last year because 9 & 10 were so good and heard nothing but bad reports in 11. Am going to go out in there this weekend to find out if the information of poor fishing is correct. I will report back.
_________________________
"Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it.” – Ferris Bueller.
Don't let the old man in!

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#977723 - 06/15/17 10:46 AM Re: Crab pots in MA. 9 10 & 11 [Re: Bank Bum]
Bay wolf Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 10/26/12
Posts: 1075
Loc: Graham, WA
This state is NOT in a Co-management relationship. It is clear that our fisheries are being managed in a Dual-management process. Unfortunately (for the resources) conservation and replenishment of the stocks gets a back seat to harvest and greed! IF the SPORT FISHERMEN were managing our fisheries, this state would be a world class fishing destination and lots of tourist money would be spent in local economies!

Sport Fishermen SPEND lots of money to take few fish.

Commercials (Tribal and Non) Spend little to take large numbers.

This state is destroying the fisheries by NOT managing for conservation and NOT managing for Sport fishermen. We always get the left overs....
_________________________
"Forgiveness is between them and God. My job is to arrange the meeting."

1Sgt U.S. Army (Ret)

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#977725 - 06/15/17 11:24 AM Re: Crab pots in MA. 9 10 & 11 [Re: Bank Bum]
GodLovesUgly Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 04/20/09
Posts: 1269
Loc: WaRshington
To be honest I don't really see how both user groups fishing would work out any other way than letting the tribes go first. Their fisheres are a few days at a whack, usually 24-48 hours depending upon landings. We want to have a July 1 - September season that runs most of every week. We can't expect them to go get their commercial share AFTER Septemeber.... Having them go first keeps gear conflict down, and allows us our long drawn out cushy season that is very poorly monitored.


If you're worried about quota overages I think the rec crabber needs to take a long hard look in the mirror. Recreational crab harvests in PS are one of the most under-monitored fisheries with the highest derelict gear bycatch and most "cowboy" harvest taking place from beach homes....

Just be happy they let us go!
_________________________
When I grow up I want to be,
One of the harvesters of the sea.
I think before my days are done,
I want to be a fisherman.

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#977726 - 06/15/17 12:00 PM Re: Crab pots in MA. 9 10 & 11 [Re: GodLovesUgly]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Originally Posted By: GodLovesUgly
To be honest I don't really see how both user groups fishing would work out any other way than letting the tribes go first. Their fisheres are a few days at a whack, usually 24-48 hours depending upon landings. We want to have a July 1 - September season that runs most of every week. We can't expect them to go get their commercial share AFTER Septemeber.... Having them go first keeps gear conflict down, and allows us our long drawn out cushy season that is very poorly monitored.


If you're worried about quota overages I think the rec crabber needs to take a long hard look in the mirror. Recreational crab harvests in PS are one of the most under-monitored fisheries with the highest derelict gear bycatch and most "cowboy" harvest taking place from beach homes....

Just be happy they let us go!



"One of the most undermonitored" as compared to what?? As a beach property owner I know I have been checked more than enough times to take exception to both the undermonitored comment as well as the "cowboy" harvest assertion. Got any facts to back up that accusation? Oh, and when they aren't actually checking they are watching! Where do you think most of the endorsement money is being spent?

As to bycatch, again compared to what? Yes, there is bycatch but mortality is fairly low given the required escape mechanisms. Those features are checked when WDFW makes a contact on crabbers over which it has authority and WDFW LEO reports indicate a low rate of violation.
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

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#977735 - 06/15/17 11:38 PM Re: Crab pots in MA. 9 10 & 11 [Re: Bank Bum]
GodLovesUgly Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 04/20/09
Posts: 1269
Loc: WaRshington
There is a plethora of data to back it up. The tribal Crab fisheries all report to a set location and are open for a very short duration of time. Our fishery is centered around CRC reporting.... I'd say at a minimum half of the people I see at the ticket counter buying a new licenses are hit with a 10$ fee for "Late reporting" and I bet many many of those didn't return a card at all....

Here's a WDFW statistic for you that was published some years back, over 80% of boats checked at the dock are guilty of at least one violation when crab fishing.

We fish 5 days a week for 3 months continuously, but get pissy when the tribes are out "carpet bombing" and area for a day?

I think the crab fishery and the states leniency with us sportsman is one tree I would not be barking up... Unless you want to see our crab seasons go the way of SHRIMP or HALIBUT.

Leave well enough alone. If you bark to loud somoene may actually listen and look into things and you probably won't like what they find. I'll take my 5 days a week for 3 months plus an ample winter season, thank you very much.

If you want to talk about waterfront property owners you yourself may not be guilty, but I can take you out any day of the week and find half a dozen "secret" pots with slightly submerged buoys, teeny tiny white "stealth" buoys, or clear plastic bottle buoys, they're all over.... spend some time boating the shoreline and tell me I'm off.

http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/putting-the-pinch-on-illegal-crabbers/


Edited by GodLovesUgly (06/15/17 11:46 PM)
_________________________
When I grow up I want to be,
One of the harvesters of the sea.
I think before my days are done,
I want to be a fisherman.

Top
#977745 - 06/16/17 02:43 PM Re: Crab pots in MA. 9 10 & 11 [Re: Bank Bum]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
First, I am not the one who raised the issue of non-compliance by any user group! Well, other than pointing out the Nisqually debacle.

My observation was that the current reality is that tribal crabbers get first shot at the harvestable biomass which can and does result in the State (and particularly recreational crabbers) having a reduced opportunity to harvest its half of the actual harvestable poundage when the estimated harvestable numbers are far too high.

As to violations, the fact that 30% of P.S. endorsements are sold to new crabbers is problematic. That is why the Commission in passing the new P.S. Dungeness crab management policy tasked sport groups to take steps to help educate those new crabbers - something that is ongoing.

I noticed that your examples are fairly dated. A more current resource is the report to the Commission on 9 April 2016 for the 2015 season (report for the 2016 season has yet to be presented) in which there was a slide comparing violations found at the off-load sites. In 2010 the five violation types listed had a combined total of 26.0% and in 2015 it was 14.4%. In looking at those percentages it is important to recognize that one person could have been represented in each of the five categories; it does not mean that 14.4% of checked crabbers were in violation. In any case those numbers show a significant reduction in violations.

Now, if you have observed illegal pots or other activity I certainly hope that you reported them - no matter whether they were set by property owners or boaters.
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

Top
#977746 - 06/16/17 04:11 PM Re: Crab pots in MA. 9 10 & 11 [Re: Bank Bum]
RUNnGUN Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 1382
Originally Posted By: Bank Bum
Thanks for all the replys. I did get a chance last week, Thursday to talk with 2 different tribal boats, while they were making pulls. out of 3 pots we watched them pull in MA 10, 1 keeper. They told us its been THERE worst year crabbing in most areas ever & that's why there season was extended for a week. Crabbing is looking pretty poor this year for us in the PS. But Iam gonna give it a shot, good luck to you all.


Was hoping the above was not true. Just off the water in area 11 out of Tacoma. 6 pots soaked close to 8 hrs total in 2 spots I have generally done OK. Got 10 decent rock crab, and what concerns me is only 1 Dungeness the whole soak, a sub legal male. No females, no numerous youngsters. Generally lots of those would be present amongst a few keepers per pull. Very little participation, but did hear the same from another area but at least they had some females and smallies. Out again tomorrow in another area to try. Will report back.
_________________________
"Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it.” – Ferris Bueller.
Don't let the old man in!

Top
#977747 - 06/16/17 04:33 PM Re: Crab pots in MA. 9 10 & 11 [Re: RUNnGUN]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Originally Posted By: RUNnGUN
Originally Posted By: Bank Bum
Thanks for all the replys. I did get a chance last week, Thursday to talk with 2 different tribal boats, while they were making pulls. out of 3 pots we watched them pull in MA 10, 1 keeper. They told us its been THERE worst year crabbing in most areas ever & that's why there season was extended for a week. Crabbing is looking pretty poor this year for us in the PS. But Iam gonna give it a shot, good luck to you all.


Was hoping the above was not true. Just off the water in area 11 out of Tacoma. 6 pots soaked close to 8 hrs total in 2 spots I have generally done OK. Got 10 decent rock crab, and what concerns me is only 1 Dungeness the whole soak, a sub legal male. No females, no numerous youngsters. Generally lots of those would be present amongst a few keepers per pull. Very little participation, but did hear the same from another area but at least they had some females and smallies. Out again tomorrow in another area to try. Will report back.


I have seen the results from the recent WDFW crab test fishery for MA 13. It was worse than last year and their pots had the small crab escape closed off so that they could gain some insight on the overall population. Result? Abysmal! As I recall they set ten pots in each of 9 locations within the MA and only one location had more than one legal Dungy - some none. And potential recruitment into legal size was nil.

As I recall the MA 11 harvest last year was approximately 25% of the agreed upon number. If that decrease in harvestable biomass is progressing into MA 10 is it the result of something we may be able to mitigate? Or will it continue to move north into the historically more productive MAs (9, 8, 6 and 7)?
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

Top
#977749 - 06/16/17 06:03 PM Re: Crab pots in MA. 9 10 & 11 [Re: Larry B]
RUNnGUN Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 1382
Originally Posted By: Larry B
Originally Posted By: RUNnGUN
Originally Posted By: Bank Bum
Thanks for all the replys. I did get a chance last week, Thursday to talk with 2 different tribal boats, while they were making pulls. out of 3 pots we watched them pull in MA 10, 1 keeper. They told us its been THERE worst year crabbing in most areas ever & that's why there season was extended for a week. Crabbing is looking pretty poor this year for us in the PS. But Iam gonna give it a shot, good luck to you all.


Was hoping the above was not true. Just off the water in area 11 out of Tacoma. 6 pots soaked close to 8 hrs total in 2 spots I have generally done OK. Got 10 decent rock crab, and what concerns me is only 1 Dungeness the whole soak, a sub legal male. No females, no numerous youngsters. Generally lots of those would be present amongst a few keepers per pull. Very little participation, but did hear the same from another area but at least they had some females and smallies. Out again tomorrow in another area to try. Will report back.


I have seen the results from the recent WDFW crab test fishery for MA 13. It was worse than last year and their pots had the small crab escape closed off so that they could gain some insight on the overall population. Result? Abysmal! As I recall they set ten pots in each of 9 locations within the MA and only one location had more than one legal Dungy - some none. And potential recruitment into legal size was nil.

As I recall the MA 11 harvest last year was approximately 25% of the agreed upon number. If that decrease in harvestable biomass is progressing into MA 10 is it the result of something we may be able to mitigate? Or will it continue to move north into the historically more productive MAs (9, 8, 6 and 7)?


How do you get to see the results of the WDFW crab test fisheries?
_________________________
"Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it.” – Ferris Bueller.
Don't let the old man in!

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#977751 - 06/16/17 06:45 PM Re: Crab pots in MA. 9 10 & 11 [Re: RUNnGUN]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
In preparation for putting on a crabbing seminar last Saturday for Pt. Defiance Marina I contacted a WDFW employee and requested the info for MA 13.
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

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#977764 - 06/17/17 07:39 AM Re: Crab pots in MA. 9 10 & 11 [Re: Bank Bum]
Get Bent Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 05/13/03
Posts: 232
Loc: Vashon/Grayland
4 pots overnight 0.0. Welcome back to the late 80's early 90's.
I did have probably 20/30 healthy females 6 decent rocks. No males of any size.

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#977775 - 06/17/17 04:06 PM Re: Crab pots in MA. 9 10 & 11 [Re: Bank Bum]
RUNnGUN Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 1382
6 pots again today, one long 5hr soak. 8 rock and 2 dungeness keepers. Only one sub legal male and 2 female dungeness. At least some dungies around, but doesn't bode well for the future unless a bunch swim in from somewhere.
_________________________
"Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it.” – Ferris Bueller.
Don't let the old man in!

Top
#977777 - 06/17/17 04:52 PM Re: Crab pots in MA. 9 10 & 11 [Re: Bank Bum]
bushbear Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 08/26/02
Posts: 4709
Loc: Sequim
Don Velasquez spoke to our NOP PSA chapter last Thursday about shrimping and crabbing opportunities this year. He works out of the Mill Creek office for the Puget Sound shellfish program.

He said the test fisheries indicated a 30% drop in the crab population in the central and S Sound. Lots of females were found, but not many males. Supposition is the warmer waters the past couple of years might have impacted the spawning success.

If you have a fishing club/organization, if Don is available, you'd enjoy his presentation.

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#977778 - 06/17/17 05:39 PM Re: Crab pots in MA. 9 10 & 11 [Re: bushbear]
RUNnGUN Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 1382
Originally Posted By: bushbear
Don Velasquez spoke to our NOP PSA chapter last Thursday about shrimping and crabbing opportunities this year. He works out of the Mill Creek office for the Puget Sound shellfish program.

He said the test fisheries indicated a 30% drop in the crab population in the central and S Sound. Lots of females were found, but not many males. Supposition is the warmer waters the past couple of years might have impacted the spawning success.

If you have a fishing club/organization, if Don is available, you'd enjoy his presentation.



Interesting? Should have gone to the Columbia this weekend. Dammit!
_________________________
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#977814 - 06/20/17 06:10 PM Re: Crab pots in MA. 9 10 & 11 [Re: RUNnGUN]
Sol Duc Offline
April Fool

Registered: 06/18/01
Posts: 16138
Tribal Crab are very tasty straight from their pots, that's what I've heard. wink
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#977834 - 06/21/17 10:45 AM Re: Crab pots in MA. 9 10 & 11 [Re: Bank Bum]
RogueFanatic Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 07/31/08
Posts: 348
Loc: Kitsap Co.
Especially when they are literally crabbing in the SuperFund site known as Creosote Point in Eagle Harbor...

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#977836 - 06/21/17 01:41 PM Re: Crab pots in MA. 9 10 & 11 [Re: RogueFanatic]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Originally Posted By: RogueFanatic
Especially when they are literally crabbing in the SuperFund site known as Creosote Point in Eagle Harbor...


Or just outside the entrance to the Thea Foss Waterway - which is closed to shellfish harvesting due to contamination.
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#977839 - 06/21/17 02:10 PM Re: Crab pots in MA. 9 10 & 11 [Re: bushbear]
stonefish Online   content
King of the Beach

Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 5205
Loc: Carkeek Park
Originally Posted By: bushbear
Don Velasquez spoke to our NOP PSA chapter last Thursday about shrimping and crabbing opportunities this year. He works out of the Mill Creek office for the Puget Sound shellfish program.

He said the test fisheries indicated a 30% drop in the crab population in the central and S Sound. Lots of females were found, but not many males. Supposition is the warmer waters the past couple of years might have impacted the spawning success.

If you have a fishing club/organization, if Don is available, you'd enjoy his presentation.



I'd say that is similar or perhaps what I've seen this past spring is worse then that.
I do a lot of beach fishing in the sound.
Last year, there were lots of mated up pairs in the eel grass flats. This year, hardly any.
Only one beach I fished had a decent number of crabs, but I'd say it was about half of what I saw there last year.

Where I fish on the canal, I haven't seen a legal crab in a good five years.
SF
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#977851 - 06/21/17 07:22 PM Re: Crab pots in MA. 9 10 & 11 [Re: Bank Bum]
Bobber Downey Jr. Offline
Parr

Registered: 04/01/15
Posts: 46
Loc: Bellingham, wa
about ten years ago, i was at the launch in MA7 waiting for the morning opener in the fog. when it was time, i paddled my canoe out to drop some gear just before legal time, and lo and behold, tribal pots every 100 feet. i pulled the first one i saw and got our 10 keepers. [Bleeeeep!] em.

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#977860 - 06/22/17 12:01 PM Re: Crab pots in MA. 9 10 & 11 [Re: bushbear]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Originally Posted By: bushbear
Don Velasquez spoke to our NOP PSA chapter last Thursday about shrimping and crabbing opportunities this year. He works out of the Mill Creek office for the Puget Sound shellfish program.

He said the test fisheries indicated a 30% drop in the crab population in the central and S Sound. Lots of females were found, but not many males. Supposition is the warmer waters the past couple of years might have impacted the spawning success.

If you have a fishing club/organization, if Don is available, you'd enjoy his presentation.


The MA 13 Dungy population pretty much hit bottom a couple of years ago. The 2016 season in MA 11 resulted in a reported harvest of about 25% of the agreed upon number. And if that phenomenon is now pushing north into MA 10 will we see it continue throughout Puget Sound?

Edit: Keeping in mind that the WDFW Dungeness crab management plan has as a foundation the assumption that a healthy population can be maintained even if every legal (male, 6 1/4 inch min) is removed from the population assuming that males 5 3/4 inch are successful breeders. If the population is now not healthy in some MAs is it time to question that assumption? If there are few sub-legal males in the population do we need to simply stop crabbing to maximize potential recovery in those MAs? Of course, that would require cooperation from the tribes.....


Edited by Larry B (06/22/17 12:14 PM)
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#977861 - 06/22/17 01:10 PM Re: Crab pots in MA. 9 10 & 11 [Re: Bank Bum]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7413
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
Larry

Do the Tribes have/operate under the same minimum size for crab? It seems that, if the management paradigm was working, that crabbers would be releasing a lot of sub-legal males. If they aren't, then something is wrong with the paradigm. The model has to agree with reality, not vice-versa.

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#977864 - 06/22/17 02:13 PM Re: Crab pots in MA. 9 10 & 11 [Re: Carcassman]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Originally Posted By: Carcassman
Larry

Do the Tribes have/operate under the same minimum size for crab? It seems that, if the management paradigm was working, that crabbers would be releasing a lot of sub-legal males. If they aren't, then something is wrong with the paradigm. The model has to agree with reality, not vice-versa.


Have to? I don't think so. However, it is my understanding that they do mirror the same size/sex requirements as the WDFW regs - at least on paper.

Otherwise, what you have opined is exactly my perspective. Note that I wrote that the paradigm may work for a healthy (model) population but reality seems to be that the population in at least some MAs no longer exhibit those characteristics for whatever reason.

If there are few or no males less than 6-1/4 inches then the population of breeding males and smaller ones anticipated to grow into breeders before becoming legal are inadequate thus the paradigm is broken.

Do we have a localized problem or is this also a threat to northern MAs? Is it a natural phenomenon or a result of overharvest (as in, the basic paradigm is flawed) and/or has there been harvest of crab outside the paradigm's parameters?

Unless I missed it somewhere the Department's new Shellfish Manager has not yet made the required annual presentation on the status of the prior year's (2016) season. When that occurs there may be some serious questions pertaining to this issue.

At least I hope that one or more Commissioners recognize there may be a problem and are willing to engage.
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#977866 - 06/22/17 03:17 PM Re: Crab pots in MA. 9 10 & 11 [Re: Bank Bum]
Smalma Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/25/01
Posts: 2844
Loc: Marysville
My understanding of Dungeness crab biology is that the males mature several years prior to reach legal size. The minimum size limit is important in that female crabs tend not breed with males that are smaller than they are. While females tend to grow slower than the males as we all have seen here in Puget Sound some do reach 6 inches (sometimes larger) or so to assure that there are males larger enough to breed with those females there is a need for the larger minimum size.

Crabs have complicated and at times vulnerable behaviors between the time the eggs/larvae are released by the females until the young
"crabs" reach maturity. Having enough "breeders" is only part of the equation to having a strong population. The crab larvae and newly settled juveniles survival is strong influenced by a wide range of water quality and other factors which naturally result in variable year classes. Just like the survival factors align in recent years to produce exceptionally strong populations those same factors can align to produce weaker populations. As much as we all would like to see record abundances of our salmon and crabs to be the norm the harsh biologically reality is that is not in the cards. In recent years we have seen environmental conditions in the sound/ocean that have affected the survival of salmon, recruitment of central Puget Sound ling cod, etc. can we be surprised that crab also might be impacted?

There are indications that changing marine conditions associated with climate change (acidification of the ocean) in the next decades may lead to significant reductions (as much as 70%) of critters like Dungeness crabs.

Curt

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#977870 - 06/22/17 09:44 PM Re: Crab pots in MA. 9 10 & 11 [Re: Bank Bum]
RogueFanatic Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 07/31/08
Posts: 348
Loc: Kitsap Co.
Soooooo, you're saying I may as well sell my boat if I like catching (as opposed to merely fishing) crab and salmon in the Sound?

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#977874 - 06/23/17 07:20 AM Re: Crab pots in MA. 9 10 & 11 [Re: RogueFanatic]
Bay wolf Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 10/26/12
Posts: 1075
Loc: Graham, WA
Originally Posted By: RogueFanatic
Soooooo, you're saying I may as well sell my boat if I like catching (as opposed to merely fishing) crab and salmon in the Sound?


DON'T SELL!
DON'T LET THEM WIN!
FIGHT!

Click Here: Stop the BS
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#977876 - 06/23/17 07:34 AM Re: Crab pots in MA. 9 10 & 11 [Re: Bank Bum]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7413
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
As long as we continue to have an expanding human population, the piece of the pie available to each of us will shrink. Human demands will increase. Ultimately, that is the problem. If we don't deal with that one it doesn't matter what we do otherwise.

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#977878 - 06/23/17 07:44 AM Re: Crab pots in MA. 9 10 & 11 [Re: Carcassman]
Bay wolf Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 10/26/12
Posts: 1075
Loc: Graham, WA
Originally Posted By: Carcassman
As long as we continue to have an expanding human population, the piece of the pie available to each of us will shrink. Human demands will increase. Ultimately, that is the problem. If we don't deal with that one it doesn't matter what we do otherwise.

Your right, it's all part of the impact.
The operative word: WE.
And unless WE are ALL at the table working on solutions, our fisheries will continue to suffer.

As long as Commercial interests (both tribal and non-tribal) are the priority, our fisheries will be managed as a commodity to be taken down to the last. No commercial interest will leave money in the water for anyone else...it's just greed!
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#977904 - 06/23/17 11:03 PM Re: Crab pots in MA. 9 10 & 11 [Re: Bobber Downey Jr.]
Sol Duc Offline
April Fool

Registered: 06/18/01
Posts: 16138
Originally Posted By: Bobber Downey Jr.
about ten years ago, i was at the launch in MA7 waiting for the morning opener in the fog. when it was time, i paddled my canoe out to drop some gear just before legal time, and lo and behold, tribal pots every 100 feet. i pulled the first one i saw and got our 10 keepers. [Bleeeeep!] em.

A couple members here and I pulled three at dusk near Apple tree p.t. Six crab out and six empty beer cans in....we laughed are asses off all the way to Shilshoe. Made up for no Kings.
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#977906 - 06/24/17 06:54 AM Re: Crab pots in MA. 9 10 & 11 [Re: Bank Bum]
Jake Dogfish Offline
Spawner

Registered: 06/24/00
Posts: 554
Loc: Des Moines
I think we heard you the first time.
Too bad you, and your alias don't know how to crab and resort to theft.
The population of area 13 Dungeness is in a small area and has been hammered both by tribal and recreational.
I realize the larvae swim around, but I think the majority of area 11 crab have always trickled in from the North.
Don't get the early opener, I guess it's too catch our share of crab that are not there.

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#977907 - 06/24/17 10:11 AM Re: Crab pots in MA. 9 10 & 11 [Re: Bank Bum]
Bay wolf Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 10/26/12
Posts: 1075
Loc: Graham, WA
I have to agree, theft is unacceptable. There are right ways and there are wrong ways to fight. If you think the system is unfair, then fight the system. By breaking the law, you actually work against yourself and everyone else who is trying to bring about change.

Things can be twisted and used...look at river closures "to reduce gear conflicts".
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#978138 - 07/01/17 12:04 PM Re: Crab pots in MA. 9 10 & 11 [Re: Bank Bum]
RogueFanatic Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 07/31/08
Posts: 348
Loc: Kitsap Co.
So. Went out today (opener, 7/1) in MA10 where I have harvested dozens and dozens and dozens over the many years I have crabbed there. Not one dungeness crab. And I mean not a female, not a short male, zero, zip, nada. And I caught maybe a dozen or so red rocks. Never seen this lack of life in my pots before now and I have been doing this here for about 25 years. WDFW Bob Sizemore writes- "Crabbing should be good from opening day all the way through the end of the summer season, although much of the catch south of Seattle this year will be red rock crab."

Yeah. You could say that...


Edited by RogueFanatic (07/01/17 03:49 PM)

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#978140 - 07/01/17 03:23 PM Re: Crab pots in MA. 9 10 & 11 [Re: Bank Bum]
bushbear Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 08/26/02
Posts: 4709
Loc: Sequim
Don Velasquez told our NOP PSA chapter a couple of weeks ago that the crab population surveys overall are down about 30% compared to last year.

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#978141 - 07/01/17 04:28 PM Re: Crab pots in MA. 9 10 & 11 [Re: Bank Bum]
MPM Offline
Spawner

Registered: 12/09/08
Posts: 766
Loc: Seattle, WA
Been crabbing the last few days in MA 11. No male dungies. Hardly any female dungies. Lots of big red rock crabs.

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#978142 - 07/01/17 04:29 PM Re: Crab pots in MA. 9 10 & 11 [Re: Bank Bum]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7413
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
But, there are plenty of crab out there so buy your license!.

One "problem" with wild natural resources is that the populations naturally fluctuate. Highs and lows. Humans don't like variation. We want every trip to be about "the same as it always was".

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#978143 - 07/01/17 06:08 PM Re: Crab pots in MA. 9 10 & 11 [Re: Bank Bum]
IrishRogue Offline
Poon it! Poon it! Poon it!

Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 1721
Loc: Yarrow Point
Pulled 8 heavily baited pots today in A10, dropped on our GPS waypoints of productive spots from years past.

ZERO KEEPERS

3 total sublegal males, and a half dozen rock crab. Sure seems like something is very very wrong.
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#978146 - 07/02/17 07:26 AM Re: Crab pots in MA. 9 10 & 11 [Re: Bank Bum]
RUNnGUN Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 1382
Soaked 6 pots 6 hrs on the area 9-10 line. 6 keepers and only on one pull did we really see numbers of smallies and females. Talked to many others with similar results. Last year had 4 limits with 6 pots on the 1st pull, and in 3 pots. Threw back another 2 limits, and was done in 3hrs. The numbers I saw yesterday have me worried for the future.
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#978147 - 07/02/17 08:12 AM Re: Crab pots in MA. 9 10 & 11 [Re: Bank Bum]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7413
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
Why worry?? The on-the-ball managers have a good idea about the current numbers, are looking at what controls them, and making management modifications even as we type.

That's what top shelf managers do, right?

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#978148 - 07/02/17 08:49 AM Re: Crab pots in MA. 9 10 & 11 [Re: Bank Bum]
Bay wolf Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 10/26/12
Posts: 1075
Loc: Graham, WA
Makes ya wonder about pre-season surveys, open commercial seasons and blanket under enforced tribal fishing.

But what the hell, we are ONLY recreational fishermen. It's just a sport, right. We don't REALLY lay out any MONEY for what we do. Heck, we're just in the way of the adults....

"It's great to just get out"

WDFW New Motto!
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#978166 - 07/03/17 11:00 AM Re: Crab pots in MA. 9 10 & 11 [Re: Bank Bum]
Chip Goodhue Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 06/29/00
Posts: 439
Loc: Kitsap County
WDFW Bob is wrong! Only 6 keepers in 24 hours, 4 pots in my money spot on the opener! No smaller males or females. Reports from the folks I talked to trying varied areas in A-10 were 1-2 keepers at best. Populations sure look way down. From what I see I would welcome a closure.

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#978171 - 07/03/17 03:12 PM Re: Crab pots in MA. 9 10 & 11 [Re: Carcassman]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Originally Posted By: Carcassman
But, there are plenty of crab out there so buy your license!.

One "problem" with wild natural resources is that the populations naturally fluctuate. Highs and lows. Humans don't like variation. We want every trip to be about "the same as it always was".


If you've been around long enough (and I qualify) you've experienced those naturally occurring swings. Fair enough.

Yes, expectations are a bitch when not realized. In the case of crab I will offer that WDFW has alluded to those natural swings but at the same time said they would stay the course that all legal males can be removed every year and still have a healthy population. Is it time for a reality check??

Compounding that situation is the perpetuation of those expectations with less than realistic data. How did we see last year's MA 11 combined tribal and Rec harvest shake out at 25% of the agreed upon total harvest number?

As I recall the managers' primary tool is a running 5 year average so, again, if that works on a reasonably stable or increasing biomass then great. But it clearly is the wrong tool on the down swing. Reality check??

Finally, we did okay in 8-2 on Saturday but Sunday was considerably slower. Way, way too early for a big dropoff in success rates but I am afraid that is what will be occurring. I don't think any of our crab were over 7 inches and while there was a fair mix of undersized males and females the total number of crab in the pots seemed down from prior years (probably been on the slide for several years).
_________________________
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#978172 - 07/03/17 05:23 PM Re: Crab pots in MA. 9 10 & 11 [Re: Bank Bum]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7413
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
For better or for worse, recreational fishing and hunting are managed based on "opportunity". Consistently, users say that their primary reason for going out is to be outdoors, with friends, etc. When surveyed, harvest is always down the list.

The measure that is always used for the value of rec use is cost per trip. "I spent $X to fish salmon today." That is the measure.

Rec use was never designed as subsistence; the taking home of harvest id the cherry on the sundae. Many of the limits, especially gamefish possession limits, were designed to "spread" the harvest over more license holders.

Now, if we want to change that then we need to really get organized and lobby. Perhaps a license comes with a money-back guarantee that you will harvest 10 salmon, 1 halibut, 15 crab, and so on. I think that a lot of folks do look at hunting and fishing as major meat source. This is not the way management has worked and if we want to change that there is a ton of work to do.

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#978174 - 07/03/17 08:00 PM Re: Crab pots in MA. 9 10 & 11 [Re: Bank Bum]
spokey9 Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 05/30/02
Posts: 211
Loc: Ravenden, AR
The only seafood my household eats is what we catch. It's amazing spending time on the water with the wife and kiddo passing on the lil bit of knowledge that I've accumulated in the past 30+ years. But truth be told without reasonable opportunity for harvest, we could just go hang out in the woods and get that same "outdoors together" feelings.
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#978181 - 07/04/17 10:24 AM Re: Crab pots in MA. 9 10 & 11 [Re: Carcassman]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Originally Posted By: Carcassman
For better or for worse, recreational fishing and hunting are managed based on "opportunity". Consistently, users say that their primary reason for going out is to be outdoors, with friends, etc. When surveyed, harvest is always down the list.

The measure that is always used for the value of rec use is cost per trip. "I spent $X to fish salmon today." That is the measure.

Rec use was never designed as subsistence; the taking home of harvest id the cherry on the sundae. Many of the limits, especially gamefish possession limits, were designed to "spread" the harvest over more license holders.

Now, if we want to change that then we need to really get organized and lobby. Perhaps a license comes with a money-back guarantee that you will harvest 10 salmon, 1 halibut, 15 crab, and so on. I think that a lot of folks do look at hunting and fishing as major meat source. This is not the way management has worked and if we want to change that there is a ton of work to do.



I recall when the WDG had game management units on the Canal side of the Olympics for which there was a season for mountain goats for which you had to enter for a tag drawing - and you could only submit for one unit. Turns out there were no goats in some of those units and they knew it. So why dredge up that very old abuse? Because it goes to the issue of defining opportunity.

Sure, harvest is down the list but how many of those hunters and fishers would be out there on a given day if there was no reasonable opportunity for harvest? (Or, how many of the folks who tossed their permit app into one of those barren units would have done so had they KNOWN there were no goats there??).

So, while I generally concur with you I also believe that the appropriate terminology in discussing the recreational side is "reasonable opportunity."
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

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#978182 - 07/04/17 10:48 AM Re: Crab pots in MA. 9 10 & 11 [Re: Bank Bum]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7413
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
I bought an elk tag, once. We were bowhunting down in the Gorge and since elk season was open at the same time, we bought tags. Turns out, there were something like six elk in whole unit and the goal was to eliminate them. Fine. When I complained, after hunting, I was told I could hunt elsewhere. While true, that is is where I had the chance to go. A little transparency goes a long ways.

My personal definition of "opportunity" is that I actually encounter the species. I see deer; reasonably within range. I see fish, feeding. The waterfowl are flying by, the dog finds pheasants. The actual shooting at, hooking, etc. is my responsibility. I can't blame WDFW if I can't hit [Bleeeeep!] but I can blame them if there is nothing there to hit.

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#978183 - 07/04/17 10:51 AM Re: Crab pots in MA. 9 10 & 11 [Re: Bank Bum]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7413
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
To add to "reasonable opportunity" back in the 80s there were restrictions placed on Chinook harvest is PS due to an imbalance in allocations. To most anglers, their belief was the Sound was closed. No. It was open to coho, it was open to Chinook C&R, but it was closed to Chinook killing. For many of us, and many fisheries, if I can't kill it it's not open.

There really needs to be a wide-ranging discussion on how we manage recreational resources.

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#978185 - 07/04/17 12:21 PM Re: Crab pots in MA. 9 10 & 11 [Re: Carcassman]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Originally Posted By: Carcassman
A little transparency goes a long ways.

My personal definition of "opportunity" is that I actually encounter the species. I see deer; reasonably within range. I see fish, feeding. The waterfowl are flying by, the dog finds pheasants. The actual shooting at, hooking, etc. is my responsibility. I can't blame WDFW if I can't hit [Bleeeeep!] but I can blame them if there is nothing there to hit.


I can buy into that; pretty much overlays my "reasonable opportunity" perspective.
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

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#978186 - 07/04/17 01:04 PM Re: Crab pots in MA. 9 10 & 11 [Re: Bank Bum]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7413
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
Unfortunately, I don't think WDFW sees it that way. But, we must keep pushing.

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#978189 - 07/04/17 04:14 PM Re: Crab pots in MA. 9 10 & 11 [Re: Carcassman]
NickD90 Offline
Shooting Instructor for hire

Registered: 10/26/10
Posts: 7260
Loc: Snohomish, WA
Originally Posted By: Carcassman
There really needs to be a wide-ranging discussion on how we manage recreational resources.


I've said it 101 times before on here, but PNW sportsman have it ingrained that a "successful day" means putting something on the table. Can't say I blame that original mentality with what once was super bountiful, quality food sources. Couple that with the mystery and size of the ocean and I can see how it has come to be.

I used to catch 10 brazillion trout a year and ate maybe a dozen total. CnR is pretty much how everyone rolls. It's easy when there are 10 brazillion trout. Out here you are searching for maybe a few bites a day which can provide a bunch of great meals in one fish. I get it. We killed a hatchery fish today deader than dead and it's going on my grill shortly. Even if I hadn't taken that fish, I still would have had a successful day on the water, because I was on the water and just happy to be livin' and fishin' and hangin' in the sun with a good friend. Sometimes the "harvest" is just soul food.


Edited by NickD90 (07/04/17 04:15 PM)
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#978194 - 07/04/17 04:57 PM Re: Crab pots in MA. 9 10 & 11 [Re: Bank Bum]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7413
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
It gets even more interesting when one looks at specific resources. I can C&R trout, bass, sunfish all day and even river salmon with minimal release mortality. An estuary salmon is often dead, period. Many fish brought up from depth are dead. Who in the world is gonna C&R crabs, shrimp, and clams? "Hey man, you shoulda seen the 'duck I C&R'd today." Same with hunting, C&R just doesn't work.

So, it seems, the (mis)managers need to understand that a crabber needs to have crabs in the pot or they are pissed. If there aren't enough crab out there to support the effort the either find a way to reduce the effort or get more crab out there.

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