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#980819 - 10/21/17 09:35 PM Some Confusion
jgreen Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 04/18/12
Posts: 315
Loc: Elma, WA
Was fishing today and found some people leaving with 3 fish (each). I was perplexed. I watched these guys catch these fish on bobber and eggs, they looked legit and when I talked to them they were very pleasant. The issue was, the limit very clearly (I thought) was 2 fish. They explained that the regs are not clear.

Here is what it says: Min. size 12". Daily limit 6 of which 1 wild COHO and up to 2 adults may be retained. Release CHINOOK.

So....Two hatchery and one wild then? Its the "and" that confusing people. I didn't risk it and only took my two (one "unclipped" and a hatchery). Should it say "of which 1 may be wild"?

I didn't call DFW or anything, these guys didn't take me as the poaching types. I don't know the proper channels to get the rules clarified. Maybe someone here could forward the confusion along to WDFW (or maybe you have an in with someone at region 6).

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#980820 - 10/21/17 09:40 PM Re: Some Confusion [Re: jgreen]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7413
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
Don't know what the intent was but the wording "and" would put the wild coho in addition to two adults (non-Chinook). So, three adults but only 1 wild coho.

To complicate it further, what really counts is how the WAC itself is worded. That is the law, not the pamphlet.

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#980821 - 10/21/17 09:42 PM Re: Some Confusion [Re: jgreen]
onthewater Offline
Fry

Registered: 09/23/12
Posts: 30
Maybe one was a jack????
_________________________
Always happiest with fish scales on my face.

"Hope I die before I get old" - Pete Townshend, The Who, Musician/Singer/Songwriter and Spokesperson of a generation.

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#980822 - 10/21/17 09:47 PM Re: Some Confusion [Re: onthewater]
onthewater Offline
Fry

Registered: 09/23/12
Posts: 30
But to echo my own reply I will say those regs are harder to read than a fricking schematic. Definitely needs more continuity of wording and stricter definitions of those words. We're not all born rocket surgeons after all.
_________________________
Always happiest with fish scales on my face.

"Hope I die before I get old" - Pete Townshend, The Who, Musician/Singer/Songwriter and Spokesperson of a generation.

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#980823 - 10/21/17 09:50 PM Re: Some Confusion [Re: jgreen]
jgreen Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 04/18/12
Posts: 315
Loc: Elma, WA
No all obviously adults.

I would love to keep three adults sure, but I am concerned if I got checked I would get a ticket. These wardens are ticket happy these days.

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#980824 - 10/21/17 10:07 PM Re: Some Confusion [Re: jgreen]
onthewater Offline
Fry

Registered: 09/23/12
Posts: 30
I don't blame you at all. And I agree heartily that the limit there is 2 adults, but admittedly poorly written in the regs such as they are. Plus, who needs more than two fish a day anyway?
_________________________
Always happiest with fish scales on my face.

"Hope I die before I get old" - Pete Townshend, The Who, Musician/Singer/Songwriter and Spokesperson of a generation.

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#980829 - 10/22/17 08:11 AM Re: Some Confusion [Re: jgreen]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7413
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
Two adults may have been the intent but the wording allows three.

When writing regs, both the WAC and the pamphlet, you have to be very exact and ask how it could be mis-interpreted. Or, you should be.

I checked with my WAC/reg writer friend and that one says "3".

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#980831 - 10/22/17 08:59 AM Re: Some Confusion [Re: jgreen]
Dan S. Offline
It all boils down to this - I'm right, everyone else is wrong, and anyone who disputes this is clearly a dumbfuck.

Registered: 03/07/99
Posts: 17149
Loc: SE Olympia, WA
Jesus.

All the time and effort spent by brainiacs in writing the regs, and that's the sh!tty language they use?

Who needs more than 2 fish in a day? Everyone.
_________________________
She was standin' alone over by the juke box, like she'd something to sell.
I said "baby, what's the goin' price?" She told me to go to hell.

Bon Scott - Shot Down in Flames

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#980833 - 10/22/17 09:30 AM Re: Some Confusion [Re: Dan S.]
ReefSkunk
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: Dan S.
Jesus.

All the time and effort spent by brainiacs in writing the regs, and that's the sh!tty language they use?

Who needs more than 2 fish in a day? Everyone.




This.

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#980834 - 10/22/17 10:12 AM Re: Some Confusion [Re: jgreen]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7413
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
It was conscious decision to move in the direction of reg-writing currently on display.

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#980836 - 10/22/17 10:45 AM Re: Some Confusion [Re: jgreen]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Poorly written but I read it as being three different limitations:

1. Six fish total.
2. of which only one can be a wild coho
3. and up to two adults.

Another permutation is whether the one wild coho includes jacks? Taking my interpretation it would.

Guess that is what WDFW produced in an attempt at brevity.

As to conflicts between the WAC and the regulation pamphlet while the WAC is the law the pamphlet is what WDFW puts out in huge quantities for use by its licensees. If there is a conflict between the two I would opine that a judge would put the responsibility upon the writer (WDFW) rather than the individual who relied upon the erroneous language in the pamphlet.

And, no, I am not an attorney.
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

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#980837 - 10/22/17 10:48 AM Re: Some Confusion [Re: jgreen]
Free_Globbin Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 11/01/10
Posts: 265
Loc: Grays Harbor
The WAC reads TWO ADULTS per day, of which, ONE may be a WILD COHO. The reason it was worded this way in the pamphlet was to prevent the retention of wild coho jacks. While you can use your ONE WILD COHO towards part of your jack limit, you only get ONE WILD COHO per day.

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#980840 - 10/22/17 11:04 AM Re: Some Confusion [Re: jgreen]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7413
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
Adults and jacks are managed separately. What you said was two adults, one of which can be a wild coho. The other 4 could be wild coho jacks.

If they wanted retention of only one wild coho of any size then they should specifically say one wild coho of any size.

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#980841 - 10/22/17 11:20 AM Re: Some Confusion [Re: jgreen]
jgreen Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 04/18/12
Posts: 315
Loc: Elma, WA
The saddest part...there is probably a combined wealth of 200+ years fishing knowledge that has commented on this already, and no one really knows the answer. Call me a conspiracy theorist, but I think its done this way to write tickets. They could simply just say, with no legalese, "two adult coho, one of which can be wild". They chose not to.

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#980843 - 10/22/17 11:34 AM Re: Some Confusion [Re: Carcassman]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Originally Posted By: Carcassman
Adults and jacks are managed separately. What you said was two adults, one of which can be a wild coho. The other 4 could be wild coho jacks.

If they wanted retention of only one wild coho of any size then they should specifically say one wild coho of any size.


I place some significance on the order of those three. Had I been writing that with the intent of limiting the wild coho to adults it would have read "Six coho of which only two may be adults to include not more than one wild adult coho."

And, of course, all of this dialog simply reaffirms how poorly it is written.
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

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#980847 - 10/22/17 11:53 AM Re: Some Confusion [Re: jgreen]
FleaFlickr02 Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/28/09
Posts: 3314
It's 2 adults, guys, and I think only someone looking to bend the rules on a glory day of fishing would read it otherwise.

I agree it's poorly written, but the only adjective modifying the word "adults" is "2," which in my mind means 2 adults, of which one may be wild. If the limit was three adults, it would say "3 adults" somewhere (it did last time they let us keep three). As for the hatchery vs. wild thing, they are consistent in their reference to HATCHERY salmon and steelhead, throughout the regs when that's what they are addressing.

There's a lot of crap we're justified in dishing up to WDFW. In light of the other issues, can't we just help them out by applying a little common sense here and respecting the word "two" in front of "adults?" If I were a warden, I'd ticket them all. Poaching is poaching, and ignorance is not an excuse. Again, poorly written, but I have a HARD time understanding where anyone being honest could read "2 adults" as 3, unless of course it was just what they wanted to read....

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#980848 - 10/22/17 12:46 PM Re: Some Confusion [Re: jgreen]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7413
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
It says one wild coho AND up to two adults. The "and" makes the coho additive to the adults. If they wanted to say that the overall limit was only two adults then you say "only two of which can be adults and only one of the adults can be a wild coho."

It may not be what they meant but it is what they wrote. It isn't that hard to write regs clearly and part of the process of writing them should include how can this be mis-interpreted.

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#980871 - 10/23/17 01:58 PM Re: Some Confusion [Re: jgreen]
DrifterWA Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 04/25/00
Posts: 5074
Loc: East of Aberdeen, West of Mont...
NOF....last meeting "USED TO BE", go over wording of different rivers in Region 6. Sports fishermen, in attendance, had input as to the wording for different rivers in Region 6. The final NOF meeting, always took place in the WDFW building in Olympia. This final meeting got eliminated 2-3 years ago.....wording has been more of a problem since then.

I'm sure the intent was: Legal limit(Chehalis Side)

A. 6 jacks, hatchery or wild

B. 2 adult Coho, 1 could be wild

C. 2 Chum

D. No Chinook on the Chehalis side

E. 2 adult 1 Coho, w or h, and 1 Chum

F. 4 jacks, 2 adult, 1 could be a wild Coho BUT once adult limit is caught then you are done for the day.

G. Some fishermen, catch the adult limit then think they can fish jacks...wrong......adult limit is the driving force, see page 4 of Sport Fishing Rules
_________________________
"Worse day sport fishing, still better than the best day working"

"I thought growing older, would take longer"

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#980872 - 10/23/17 02:14 PM Re: Some Confusion [Re: jgreen]
bushbear Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 08/26/02
Posts: 4709
Loc: Sequim
The issue is being looked at. Hope for some clarification soon.

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#980874 - 10/23/17 04:45 PM Re: Some Confusion [Re: Free_Globbin]
eyeFISH Offline
Ornamental Rice Bowl

Registered: 11/24/03
Posts: 12766
Originally Posted By: Free_Globbin
The WAC reads TWO ADULTS per day, of which, ONE may be a WILD COHO. The reason it was worded this way in the pamphlet was to prevent the retention of wild coho jacks. While you can use your ONE WILD COHO towards part of your jack limit, you only get ONE WILD COHO per day.


Give that man a GOLD star!
_________________________
"Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." (Zane Grey)

"If you don't kill them, they will spawn." (Carcassman)


The Keen Eye MD
Long Live the Kings!

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