Check

 

Defiance Boats!

LURECHARGE!

THE PP OUTDOOR FORUMS

Kast Gear!

Power Pro Shimano Reels G Loomis Rods

  Willie boats! Puffballs!

 

Three Rivers Marine

 

 
Page 3 of 3 < 1 2 3
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#982339 - 12/08/17 03:32 PM Re: WA Citizen Sportsmen Meet With WDFW--In Retrospect [Re: Jake Dogfish]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Originally Posted By: Jake Dogfish
Originally Posted By: Bay wolf
There have been only three people speak this morning to the Commission about transparency at all, and one of those was centered on harvest more than secret meetings.

I certainly hope that the sessions tonight and tomorrow have a better turn out. Maybe nobody really cares that secret meetings are taking away from them. Where is the rage? Are any of you who are always talking about how bad things are, really too busy to come out from behind your computer and make your voice heard?


I know you are fighting the good fight. Have you ever thought that if these meetings were videotaped we could lose fishing opportunities? The weak position that wdfw negotiates from could be even more constrained.


Jake, the issue as I see it is that when WDFW has worked up what we perceive as reasonable goals they come out of NOF with their head in a basket (well, use your own imagination on that) and no explanation. If you look at Point No Point as a clear example of how tribal interests just saying NO can shut down a project plus what happened in 2016 when the BIA jumped in and usurped NOAA by issuing the tribes permits to fish I have to ask how it could be worse? At least with a live feed to the public any such overt tactics would be documented. And on the other hand if it is simply WDFW having done poor research and their numbers are bad we would have clear evidence of their incompetence.
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

Top
#982340 - 12/08/17 03:36 PM Re: WA Citizen Sportsmen Meet With WDFW--In Retrospect [Re: Jake Dogfish]
Bay wolf Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 10/26/12
Posts: 1075
Loc: Graham, WA
Originally Posted By: Jake Dogfish
Originally Posted By: Bay wolf
There have been only three people speak this morning to the Commission about transparency at all, and one of those was centered on harvest more than secret meetings.

I certainly hope that the sessions tonight and tomorrow have a better turn out. Maybe nobody really cares that secret meetings are taking away from them. Where is the rage? Are any of you who are always talking about how bad things are, really too busy to come out from behind your computer and make your voice heard?


I know you are fighting the good fight. Have you ever thought that if these meetings were videotaped we could lose fishing opportunities? The weak position that wdfw negotiates from could be even more constrained.


The exact opposite. When the meetings are live streamed we will be able to comment and amend decisions. The larger benefit is we will ALL be on the same page, ALL the information will be out in the open and we can ALL work in the same direction to save our salmon.

With secret deals and hidden agreements, we don't really know who is working with us and who is working against us. We are left to speculate and then it turns to dis-trust and lack of cooperation.
_________________________
"Forgiveness is between them and God. My job is to arrange the meeting."

1Sgt U.S. Army (Ret)

Top
#982341 - 12/08/17 03:56 PM Re: WA Citizen Sportsmen Meet With WDFW--In Retrospect [Re: Great Bender]
Jake Dogfish Offline
Spawner

Registered: 06/24/00
Posts: 554
Loc: Des Moines
I agree it may save some Salmon. That’s not the same as fishing opportunities.
Some openings may come down to just a few ESA listed fish being effected. I think they bend the numbers to keep both sides fishing as best they can. It would be interesting to see how that plays out.

Top
#982342 - 12/08/17 04:03 PM Re: WA Citizen Sportsmen Meet With WDFW--In Retrospect [Re: Jake Dogfish]
Bay wolf Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 10/26/12
Posts: 1075
Loc: Graham, WA
Originally Posted By: Jake Dogfish
I agree it may save some Salmon. That’s not the same as fishing opportunities.
Some openings may come down to just a few ESA listed fish being effected. I think they bend the numbers to keep both sides fishing as best they can. It would be interesting to see how that plays out.


It's true that in the end, there may be some loss of opportunities, but overall, when everything is out in the open, in full view of everyone, it will be clear that the reductions in opportunities are shared, equally with all parties, and the responsibility to protect, recover and enhance the fish will also be shared, equally between all the parties.
_________________________
"Forgiveness is between them and God. My job is to arrange the meeting."

1Sgt U.S. Army (Ret)

Top
#982343 - 12/08/17 04:47 PM Re: WA Citizen Sportsmen Meet With WDFW--In Retrospect [Re: Great Bender]
bushbear Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 08/26/02
Posts: 4709
Loc: Sequim
Thank you, Perry for all of your work to date. It's been a heavy load you've carried on our behalf. I'm hopeful that your work will initiate change.

If anyone is close to Olympia, your attendance at the Commission meeting tomorrow to make a brief statement in support of the transparency issue would be appreciated.

Top
#982344 - 12/08/17 04:52 PM Re: WA Citizen Sportsmen Meet With WDFW--In Retrospect [Re: bushbear]
Bay wolf Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 10/26/12
Posts: 1075
Loc: Graham, WA
Originally Posted By: bushbear
Thank you, Perry for all of your work to date. It's been a heavy load you've carried on our behalf. I'm hopeful that your work will initiate change.

If anyone is close to Olympia, your attendance at the Commission meeting tomorrow to make a brief statement in support of the transparency issue would be appreciated.


I appreciate the kind words, any thanks should rightfully go to you, the supporters that have been with us since the beginning .

I hope to meet all of you at the Commission meeting tomorrow.
_________________________
"Forgiveness is between them and God. My job is to arrange the meeting."

1Sgt U.S. Army (Ret)

Top
#982346 - 12/08/17 06:10 PM Re: WA Citizen Sportsmen Meet With WDFW--In Retrospect [Re: Great Bender]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Caught the early version of Channel 5 news and of course the only issue they reported upon was that of the rehab facility. Someone needs to remind those folks that any wildlife in their care remains the property of the State. Apparently the issue of the 10 year Chinook Recovery Plan didn't warrant air time. Now, back to your regularly scheduled program.
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

Top
#982348 - 12/08/17 06:20 PM Re: WA Citizen Sportsmen Meet With WDFW--In Retrospect [Re: Great Bender]
Happy Birthday Carcassman Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7428
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
Fish are not brown-eyed warm and fuzzies.

Top
#982351 - 12/08/17 06:36 PM Re: WA Citizen Sportsmen Meet With WDFW--In Retrospect [Re: Carcassman]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Guess I just didn't express enough outrage or let my voice quiver as I spoke. Hey, and I was done in under the allocated 3 minutes. grin
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

Top
#982352 - 12/08/17 07:08 PM Re: WA Citizen Sportsmen Meet With WDFW--In Retrospect [Re: Great Bender]
Happy Birthday Carcassman Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7428
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
But you see, folks want to kill salmon and eat them.

Top
#982357 - 12/08/17 08:13 PM Re: WA Citizen Sportsmen Meet With WDFW--In Retrospect [Re: FleaFlickr02]
eyeFISH Offline
Ornamental Rice Bowl

Registered: 11/24/03
Posts: 12767
Originally Posted By: FleaFlickr02
B
One gentleman (who's been involved in this stuff forever but whose name escapes me) more or less pointed his finger at Unsworth when he announced to the room that he is pushing legislation (with lots of good momentum) to implement a zero tolerance policy on public employees lying to the public, the Legislature, etc., with the penalty for violation being termination of employment. Sounds reasonable to me....







Dan Boeholt... good guy.

His testimony here...

https://www.tvw.org/watch/?eventID=2017121022

Cue up 2:22:05
_________________________
"Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." (Zane Grey)

"If you don't kill them, they will spawn." (Carcassman)


The Keen Eye MD
Long Live the Kings!

Top
#982358 - 12/08/17 08:44 PM Re: WA Citizen Sportsmen Meet With WDFW--In Retrospect [Re: Great Bender]
Bay wolf Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 10/26/12
Posts: 1075
Loc: Graham, WA
Alison Morrow from King5 is working on the Transparency issue/Harvest plan. She has been with us from the start and is a solid, bulldog of an investigative reporter. The re-hab facility got air time, because she had a deadline and is flying out tomorrow. She is digging deep into the issues in the bowels of the department...there will be a story.

I'm really glad of the guys that stood up and voiced their opposition to the dirty deeds that are going on in the department. Believe me when I say, the Commission is listening. I am confident we will see some major changes in the near future...BUT, we must keep up the pressure.

A pot will boil over only if the heat stays applied.
_________________________
"Forgiveness is between them and God. My job is to arrange the meeting."

1Sgt U.S. Army (Ret)

Top
#982359 - 12/09/17 07:22 AM Re: WA Citizen Sportsmen Meet With WDFW--In Retrospect [Re: Great Bender]
Happy Birthday Carcassman Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7428
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
Not to hijack too much but we have spent a bit of time in Australia. They have a very active wildlife rehabilitation program. The centerpieces are the marsupials as a roadkilled mum may have some live young that can be saved. These little critters take hands-on 24/7 care. They get carried around in specially designed pouches that the rehabbers wear. The little critters even have names. Then, they get released. Some will even come back when you call their name. But, they get out there and live, reproduce, die. Perhaps WDFW could look outside its own doors to see what is happening around the world. Too much that we "know as common knowledge" is not true.

Top
#982362 - 12/09/17 09:00 AM Re: WA Citizen Sportsmen Meet With WDFW--In Retrospect [Re: Great Bender]
eyeFISH Offline
Ornamental Rice Bowl

Registered: 11/24/03
Posts: 12767


Every seat in the house taken!
_________________________
"Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." (Zane Grey)

"If you don't kill them, they will spawn." (Carcassman)


The Keen Eye MD
Long Live the Kings!

Top
#982413 - 12/11/17 01:01 PM Re: WA Citizen Sportsmen Meet With WDFW--In Retrospect [Re: Great Bender]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
The Tacoma News Tribune ran a Local Viewpoint piece today under the title "Halt LNG plant, respect Puyallup tribal concerns" written by Bill Sterud whom I believe is the Chair of the Puyallup Tribal Council. While taking aim at the LNG plant using information provided during public hearings he indicated that the public notices sent out to adjacent property owners was insufficient. He went on to write that "The Puyallup Tribe and our community demand a responsible and comprehensive assessment - one that meets the level of risk posed by this project."

The point here is that he wrote representing the Tribe which is one of those sovereign nations preventing the rest of the citizens of the State from enjoying that same public meeting opportunity vis a vis the Salmon Management Plan and recent NOF negotiations. I call that hypocritical. Mr. Sterud, how about respecting not only our concerns but State law?
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

Top
#982427 - 12/12/17 07:39 AM Re: WA Citizen Sportsmen Meet With WDFW--In Retrospect [Re: Great Bender]
Great Bender Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 01/03/17
Posts: 155
Loc: Hood Canal
Larry, we have run into this paradox often over the past year. Strangely, legality and hypocrisy are one in the same when the civil liberties and rights of the Tribes are put side-by-side. As both US citizens and members of a separate sovereign nation, they experience the benefit of "dual citizenship" in many regards.
No one can question the hardship the Tribes have endured to get to this point. They were established cultures long before Europeans landed on North American shores.
But where do you draw the line? We have already depleted and are on the verge of eradicating a resource treasured by virtually all of us--and the only way to reverse this process requires putting the fish first. We strive to move forward, and, in the spirit of cooperation, have made multiple attempts to reach out to the NWIFC and their Chair, Lorraine Loomis. Harmony could and should begin with the Co-Management Process, with the principles of the Boldt Decision paving the way.
However, we have now traveled full circle...and arrived at the paradox above. Until the Tribes grasp what's truly at stake--and we BOTH treat each other as equals, regardless of politics--the future is easily predictable.

Top
Page 3 of 3 < 1 2 3

Search

Site Links
Home
Our Washington Fishing
Our Alaska Fishing
Reports
Rates
Contact Us
About Us
Recipes
Photos / Videos
Visit us on Facebook
Today's Birthdays
Carcassman, Clipfin, Danny Clyde, Dannyboy, dk1948, Twitch
Recent Gallery Pix
hatchery steelhead
Hatchery Releases into the Pacific and Harvest
Who's Online
0 registered (), 969 Guests and 3 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
John Boob, Lawrence, I'm Still RichG, feyt, Freezeout
11498 Registered Users
Top Posters
Todd 28170
Dan S. 17149
Sol Duc 16138
The Moderator 14486
Salmo g. 13523
eyeFISH 12767
STRIKE ZONE 12107
Dogfish 10979
ParaLeaks 10513
Jerry Garcia 9160
Forum Stats
11498 Members
16 Forums
63778 Topics
645361 Posts

Max Online: 3001 @ 01/28/20 02:48 PM

Join the PP forums.

It's quick, easy, and always free!

Working for the fish and our future fishing opportunities:

The Wild Steelhead Coalition

The Photo & Video Gallery. Nearly 1200 images from our fishing trips! Tips, techniques, live weight calculator & more in the Fishing Resource Center. The time is now to get prime dates for 2018 Olympic Peninsula Winter Steelhead , don't miss out!.

| HOME | ALASKA FISHING | WASHINGTON FISHING | RIVER REPORTS | FORUMS | FISHING RESOURCE CENTER | CHARTER RATES | CONTACT US | WHAT ABOUT BOB? | PHOTO & VIDEO GALLERY | LEARN ABOUT THE FISH | RECIPES | SITE HELP & FAQ |