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#982401 - 12/11/17 11:31 AM Re: CORPS inability to function is frustrating / PNP [Re: Carcassman]
bob r Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 04/17/13
Posts: 289
Originally Posted By: Carcassman
I hope you're right, Bob, that they are listening and will act as the stakeholders and law demand. I just doubt they will. There are bigger stakeholders telling them what to do. And they listen to them.


I can't say what the results of folks going to the meetings in numbers and reading them the riot act will be, but I find it at least hopeful, but you are right, bigger players in the game, only answer is to drown them with large numbers of pissed off fisher folk. Bob R

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#982402 - 12/11/17 11:45 AM Re: CORPS inability to function is frustrating / PNP [Re: ned]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7412
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
Nope. Money is all that matters. That is what buys influence.

If you are pissed off, still give WDFW your money, and they still grow fish for the Tribes (with your money) what will make them change?

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#982404 - 12/11/17 12:08 PM Re: CORPS inability to function is frustrating / PNP [Re: ned]
BroodBuster Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 07/11/04
Posts: 3113
Loc: Bothell, Wa
Since there is no like button on this forum just assume I like
pretty much every post Carcassman posts.
_________________________
"Government does not solve problems; it subsidizes them." Ronald Reagan

"The trouble with Socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money." Margaret Thatcher.

"How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think." Adolf Hitler

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#982405 - 12/11/17 12:30 PM Re: CORPS inability to function is frustrating / PNP [Re: Carcassman]
bob r Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 04/17/13
Posts: 289
Originally Posted By: Carcassman
Nope. Money is all that matters. That is what buys influence.

If you are pissed off, still give WDFW your money, and they still grow fish for the Tribes (with your money) what will make them change?


Well, if you and broodbuster do what you threaten that will be two less fishermen taking limited fish that the rest of us will take. Isn't that called foregone opportunity? Please, encourage others. Thanks! Bob R

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#982409 - 12/11/17 12:43 PM Re: CORPS inability to function is frustrating / PNP [Re: ned]
BroodBuster Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 07/11/04
Posts: 3113
Loc: Bothell, Wa
Done-
_________________________
"Government does not solve problems; it subsidizes them." Ronald Reagan

"The trouble with Socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money." Margaret Thatcher.

"How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think." Adolf Hitler

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#982410 - 12/11/17 12:44 PM Re: CORPS inability to function is frustrating / PNP [Re: ned]
BroodBuster Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 07/11/04
Posts: 3113
Loc: Bothell, Wa
At least until I move to Ak and become part of the problem that you're subsidizing!!!

Appreciate that smile
_________________________
"Government does not solve problems; it subsidizes them." Ronald Reagan

"The trouble with Socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money." Margaret Thatcher.

"How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think." Adolf Hitler

Top
#982412 - 12/11/17 12:54 PM Re: CORPS inability to function is frustrating / PNP [Re: BroodBuster]
bob r Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 04/17/13
Posts: 289
Originally Posted By: BroodBuster
At least until I move to Ak and become part of the problem that you're subsidizing!!!

Appreciate that smile

I do appreciate it! Our state is becoming too crowded, more people should move to Alaska. I'm sure the resident population will appreciate wholesale moves to their state as well. They'll be waiting with open arms. While the rest of us wave 'bye. Bob R

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#982434 - 12/12/17 10:18 AM Re: CORPS inability to function is frustrating / PNP [Re: ned]
Bay wolf Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 10/26/12
Posts: 1075
Loc: Graham, WA
Infighting is exactly what we DON'T need right now. Yes, money talks. That's why WDFW is paying attention to us. Because we ARE the largest chunk of money. 68.9% according to the latest budget slides. And that doesn't take into account the massive contribution to the economy!

So, here is what I propose. Rather than debate the value of withholding a few licenses sales. Why not contact the new Chair of the Budget Committee and let her know how frustrated you are and that your ready to just pull your funding to WDFW. Give this a chance to make some positive changes.

The leadership of WDFW would like nothing more than for the sport fishing community to start tearing apart over the frustration they caused. Let's not give them the satisfaction.
_________________________
"Forgiveness is between them and God. My job is to arrange the meeting."

1Sgt U.S. Army (Ret)

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#982435 - 12/12/17 10:29 AM Re: CORPS inability to function is frustrating / PNP [Re: Bay wolf]
bob r Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 04/17/13
Posts: 289
Originally Posted By: Bay wolf
Infighting is exactly what we DON'T need right now. Yes, money talks. That's why WDFW is paying attention to us. Because we ARE the largest chunk of money. 68.9% according to the latest budget slides. And that doesn't take into account the massive contribution to the economy!

So, here is what I propose. Rather than debate the value of withholding a few licenses sales. Why not contact the new Chair of the Budget Committee and let her know how frustrated you are and that your ready to just pull your funding to WDFW. Give this a chance to make some positive changes.

The leadership of WDFW would like nothing more than for the sport fishing community to start tearing apart over the frustration they caused. Let's not give them the satisfaction.


When people say it is useless to go to public meetings and that only money talks that is definitely counter-productive to any change. Boycotting license sales will only work when enough people go along with that, and that's NOT going to happen. If you think talking this crap out is infighting, well, see how playing nice and not ruffling feathers works out. If we can't figure out what works and what doesn't we are already screwed. Bob R

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#982441 - 12/12/17 01:05 PM Re: CORPS inability to function is frustrating / PNP [Re: bob r]
Bay wolf Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 10/26/12
Posts: 1075
Loc: Graham, WA
Originally Posted By: bob r
Originally Posted By: Bay wolf
Infighting is exactly what we DON'T need right now. Yes, money talks. That's why WDFW is paying attention to us. Because we ARE the largest chunk of money. 68.9% according to the latest budget slides. And that doesn't take into account the massive contribution to the economy!

So, here is what I propose. Rather than debate the value of withholding a few licenses sales. Why not contact the new Chair of the Budget Committee and let her know how frustrated you are and that your ready to just pull your funding to WDFW. Give this a chance to make some positive changes.

The leadership of WDFW would like nothing more than for the sport fishing community to start tearing apart over the frustration they caused. Let's not give them the satisfaction.



When people say it is useless to go to public meetings and that only money talks that is definitely counter-productive to any change. Boycotting license sales will only work when enough people go along with that, and that's NOT going to happen. If you think talking this crap out is infighting, well, see how playing nice and not ruffling feathers works out. If we can't figure out what works and what doesn't we are already screwed. Bob R


Bob, I agree with you 100% that speaking out in public meetings has an important impact. As you know, I have been speaking out for over a year now. I did not mean to imply that making our point to the Commission and Department was "infighting". Hell, they NEED to hear from us loud and clear. I was pointing out that we as sportsmen need to stay together in a strong coalition with our focus on the department and not each other's position.

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#982449 - 12/12/17 04:06 PM Re: CORPS inability to function is frustrating / PNP [Re: Carcassman]
slabhunter Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 01/17/04
Posts: 3742
Loc: Sheltona Beach
Originally Posted By: Carcassman
Nope. Money is all that matters. That is what buys influence.

If you are pissed off, still give WDFW your money, and they still grow fish for the Tribes (with your money) what will make them change?


Many years ago I bought an old F150 4x4 to launch my 16ft boat at Eglon around the high tide. Used to be able to sling launch at PnP.

I'll keep buying a license to be a stakeholder.
I'm okay with the co-managers harvesting hatchery fish in terminal areas.

No need to to extract maximum allowable take on the wild fishes.

I believe that is a threshold to avoid. Rather than some DFW Harvest Management goal to reach.
_________________________
When we are forgotten, we cease to exist .
Share your outdoor skills.

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#982578 - 12/15/17 06:22 PM Re: CORPS inability to function is frustrating / PNP [Re: ned]
ned Offline
Spawner

Registered: 06/09/07
Posts: 666
Loc: MA 5, 9, 10
Update, Dec 15, 2017.
Last Monday, Dec 11, there was a meeting at WDFW as described above in my Dec 10 post. Nothing happened: The Director was not there, nor was Ron Warren, who is in charge of this file. So, they talked about continuing to try to get a response from the Suquamish tribe, having the Corps try mediation, change the ramp project (after 15 years of working on it), and so on. Nothing productive was proposed, and nothing decided, only batting the ball back and forth.

There is supposed to be another meeting in a couple weeks when the Director and Warren will be available.

I fully expect the tribe will file suit and get an injunction to stop ramp construction if the permit is approved. We will never know if it is approved unless it is resubmitted to the Corps by WDFW. They are both hemming and hawing and killing time, trying to avoiding the probable legal action. Somehow, they kinda blame that on us (citizens) when its their (govt) process we are following. What the heck are they delaying this for. Wait 10 more years, then do it? It would be the same issue, except the stakes get higher every year.

I am so sick of all this pussy-footing around, and people not doing their jobs.
"If you can't stand the heat.... "



Edited by ned (12/15/17 07:28 PM)

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#982584 - 12/15/17 07:19 PM Re: CORPS inability to function is frustrating / PNP [Re: ned]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
WDFW needs to publicly demand that the Corps make a decision on the permit application based upon the facts presented to it and allow the process to play itself out. That is, an injunction/suit by the tribe or an appeal by WDFW.

What WDFW can't do is knuckle under and change the design to what would no doubt be a car topper/kayak launch which would not benefit the people whose money paid for the property and design but would appease tribal interests. Nor should WDFW acquiesce to the very unreasonable demands (extortion) of those same tribal interests.

This is a perfect example of how unbalanced the playing field has become.

And, Ned, thank you for your ongoing efforts on this debacle.
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

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