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#982972 - 12/29/17 10:04 AM Re: Is the Governor undermining the Commission? [Re: Bay wolf]
Smalma Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/25/01
Posts: 2844
Loc: Marysville
Where the Governor's office leadership is needed is working with the co-managers to develop and IMPLEMENT a meaningful habitat recovery plan for Puget Sound rivers and reductions in northern fisheries impacts on ESA listed stocks. I realize that is a very heavy lift and not politically popular but it should be abundantly clear to all by now that even with limited Southern United State fishing the resource continues to decline.

As the co-manager Puget Sound Chinook harvest plans were developed many realized the fishing reductions were merely stop-gap efforts that bought time for society to decide to get serious about habitat recovery. For most
Chinook stocks it is clear that 20 or so years post ESA listing of Puget Sound Chinook both the abundance and productivity of those listed fish continues to decline. The Stillaguamish Chinook are a prime example of those declines; on the average over the last 20 years the fish that reach the spawning grounds are not replacing themselves.

Curt

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#982980 - 12/29/17 11:31 AM Re: Is the Governor undermining the Commission? [Re: Bay wolf]
_WW_ Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 01/30/13
Posts: 233
Loc: Skagit
I am now convinced that most of these ESA listed fish are going extinct...and at age 63, I believe I will live to see the end of most of them. And I believe that fishing, or not fishing, for them with rod and reel will have zero effect on the outcome.

All that remains to be seen is who gets sued and who gets the money.
_________________________
Catch & Release Is Not A Crime

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#982989 - 12/29/17 02:48 PM Re: Is the Governor undermining the Commission? [Re: Carcassman]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Originally Posted By: Carcassman
Not sure the public wants to actually participate in the negotiations; that is government to government. They want to hear what is going on. They want to know WHY sharing is not 50:50. What has been traded and why. Why do the tribes get to kill X of a listed stock but the recs can't kill X of that same stock. Close the Stilly to save 1 (one) wild fish?

I also believe that State Law requires that the meetings be open to the public. The Tribes are within their right to say no but that doesn't change state law. It does create a problem but WDFW has shown a consistent inability to comply with the laws about rule making. Their track record is not all that good.


True that!

Plus a couple of additional thoughts:

1. In recent past years WDFW has engaged stakeholders and established what I will categorize as reasonable and explicit goals to be achieved for the State at NOF. They have come out of those closed negotiations having had their ass handed to them on many of those specific goals with no good explanation(s). That is what drove the 2016 impasse. And that is why stakeholders are insisting that the public be able to at least be privy to the actual give and take. Keeping in mind that we have had individual tribes put the last moment kibosh (Muckleshaft) on what was thought to have been a done deal (NOF agreeement) it is that unilateral abuse of power which further cries for public visibility (and accountability).

2. I also believe it is the Nisqually tribe which has in its own bylaws language espousing open (tribal) government. Guess its one thing for their members but not so important for the rest of us.

3. After having commented at last month's Commission meeting (Friday A.M.) to the effect that the Director's actions (not informing the Commission) had undercut the Commission's authority and marginalized us Stakeholders I have come to the conclusion that my comments were not pointed enough. The Commission needs to have an Executive Session with the Director and lay down the law; to wit: Fool me once shame on you, Fool me twice shame on me. And if you do shame us again you are GONE! And that the Director SHALL apply that same standard to Staff. If the Commission does not take back control of the ship now they will have effectively abrogated their responsibilities.

Oh, and a final thought. Commissioner Wecker was the primary driver in achieving many of the conservation oriented changes yet she was never confirmed by the Senate. Politics.


Edited by Larry B (12/29/17 02:48 PM)
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

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#982991 - 12/29/17 03:28 PM Re: Is the Governor undermining the Commission? [Re: Larry B]
Bay wolf Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 10/26/12
Posts: 1075
Loc: Graham, WA
Originally Posted By: Larry B
Oh, and a final thought. Commissioner Wecker was the primary driver in achieving many of the conservation oriented changes yet she was never confirmed by the Senate. Politics.


Larry B, your insight is perfect. We must get the Commissioners confirmed. They remain venerable to the Governor if not. We need a strong and consolidated effort NOW to get the confirmations done. We need to start with Commissioner Carpenter and go from there.

This is vital if we expect them to stand up to the power brokers!
_________________________
"Forgiveness is between them and God. My job is to arrange the meeting."

1Sgt U.S. Army (Ret)

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#982993 - 12/29/17 03:32 PM Re: Is the Governor undermining the Commission? [Re: Larry B]
darth baiter Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 04/04/10
Posts: 199
Loc: United States
On 3, firing the Staff for some outcome that doesn't reflect instructions to the Director from the Commission is not going to result in better outcomes in the future. It will only demoralize the staff and no one will want to step up to be the next scapegoat. The staff works very hard during the preseason process, its stressful, tense and generally no fun at all; they deserve better than to lose their job because of decisions made by the Director and the Executive Management Team

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#982994 - 12/29/17 03:49 PM Re: Is the Governor undermining the Commission? [Re: Bay wolf]
Great Bender Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 01/03/17
Posts: 155
Loc: Hood Canal
Simply remember where the buck stops...and go from there...

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#982995 - 12/29/17 03:51 PM Re: Is the Governor undermining the Commission? [Re: darth baiter]
Bay wolf Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 10/26/12
Posts: 1075
Loc: Graham, WA
Originally Posted By: darth baiter
On 3, firing the Staff for some outcome that doesn't reflect instructions to the Director from the Commission is not going to result in better outcomes in the future. It will only demoralize the staff and no one will want to step up to be the next scapegoat. The staff works very hard during the preseason process, its stressful, tense and generally no fun at all; they deserve better than to lose their job because of decisions made by the Director and the Executive Management Team


So true, I believe the senior staff at the Department is where the buck should stop. The worker bees have to work in the culture that the Leaders foster. Want guys to work around the rules and keep secrets, let the boss do so and the workers will follow.

Ron Warren is a perfect example of this. He was instrumental in the Secret Harvest plan, yet is comfortably flying under our radar.

Time for the road blocks and "comfy chairs" to go!

It comes back to supporting our Commission, and staying in constant contact with them. Let them know that they need to hold those responsible for this devastating harvest plan accountable. We stand to loose ALL the recreational salmon fishing inside Neah Bay if this plan is approved. The only thing blocking it's approval is our Commission!
_________________________
"Forgiveness is between them and God. My job is to arrange the meeting."

1Sgt U.S. Army (Ret)

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#982997 - 12/29/17 04:15 PM Re: Is the Governor undermining the Commission? [Re: darth baiter]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Originally Posted By: darth baiter
On 3, firing the Staff for some outcome that doesn't reflect instructions to the Director from the Commission is not going to result in better outcomes in the future. It will only demoralize the staff and no one will want to step up to be the next scapegoat. The staff works very hard during the preseason process, its stressful, tense and generally no fun at all; they deserve better than to lose their job because of decisions made by the Director and the Executive Management Team


You either misunderstood me or have attempted to alter the thrust of my comments.

It is not whether specific outcomes are always achieved - it is whether the Director ensures that Staff clearly understands the plan/goals and has them all pulling in the same direction. And it is the Commission that provides that guidance/direction to the Director and needs to exert that authority as provided to it via Initiative 45. Call it the chain of command.

The failure of the Director to inform the Commission of the negotiations resulting in the 10 year Chinook Management Plan and failure to obtain authority to commit the Department to said plan was a slap in the face of the Commission as well as Stakeholders.

And, frankly, it is the failure of the Governor to recognize and respect the Commission's role that is a significant part of the problem. He could and should be using his position to represent the
interests of the State (and the majority of its citizens) in its dealings with those Sovereign nations rather than throwing us under the bus.
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

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#983005 - 12/30/17 05:57 AM Re: Is the Governor undermining the Commission? [Re: Carcassman]
Great Bender Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 01/03/17
Posts: 155
Loc: Hood Canal
Originally Posted By: Carcassman
No, no no. By Initiative, the Commission is appointed by the Governor. The Commission appoints the Director. They set policy for WDFW.

If I sum this up correctly, the Director and his upper level Managers have, in effect, "thrown down"...and put the Board of Commissioners in a very untenable position. Should the new Puget Sound Chinook Management Plan cause radical changes and adjustments to take place, we will soon know--but only after they come to be. There will be little precious time and/or opportunity to respond and take exception to those changes. Had any degree of transparency been practiced in the rule making process, and the Commissioners been given their lawful involvement, things might have been different. Damn, I hope I'm wrong--but should this be the end result--some desks should be cleaned out, security passes seized , and certain heads should roll...

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#983007 - 12/30/17 09:13 AM Re: Is the Governor undermining the Commission? [Re: Bay wolf]
RUNnGUN Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 1384
Sad reality is that it's all about money. Those with the deepest pockets get the support of the powers that be. Our Gov. has big future plans beyond this state. Don't kid yourself, he is catering to those that can aid in his future ambitions, and unfortunately the outdoor recreational community is not part of that.
_________________________
"Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it.” – Ferris Bueller.
Don't let the old man in!

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